Arcia Traded to the Rays

[The Wise One]

Send down Park, play Arcia.  Or platoon them more regularly.  You are not giving up any lottery ticket for cash in that case.  You get rid of Neil Ramriez, Buddy Boshers, or any of the other schmoes in a 13 man bullpen.

 

It's not complex.  The team had a host of other options that didn't include waiving him off the 40 man.  Options in which they didn't have to risk losing anyone.

Ah the hyperbole. Is it a 13 man bullpen because so many have rotated through you forgot the 5 who left or on the disabled list? Like Aaron Hicks unreplicated hot month, what has Arcia done the last two years to warrant being kept on the roster as a fifth outfielder?

[Eris]

 

Eh, we're just arguing semantics at that point. I said bad asset management... But Arcia wasn't actually an asset. His value was non-existent. His production was way below average.

But bad roster management? Absolutely. No doubt.
 

 

The bad asset management starts with this team placing players on the 40 man roster before they are ready to contribute and / or poorly utilizing option years once they are on the 40 man roster.  A number of these players may have benefited from more time in the minors.  Examples include Buxton, Hicks, Berrios, Carlos Gomez and  Arcia.  I am not sure why the Twins have been so poor in assessing whether or not some of these players are ready to contribute at the MLB level.  I think some of the decisions are based on hope.  Some are based on poor roster construction.

[USAFChief]

The bad asset management starts with this team placing players on the 40 man roster before they are ready to contribute and / or poorly utilizing option years once they are on the 40 man roster.  A number of these players may have benefited from more time in the minors.  Examples include Buxton, Hicks, Berrios, Carlos Gomez and  Arcia.  I am not sure why the Twins have been so poor in assessing whether or not some of these players are ready to contribute at the MLB level.  I think some of the decisions are based on hope.  Some are based on poor roster construction.

That's one of the primary problems...they are just guessing on readiness in many cases. Arcia got 179 PAs in 2015 and 16 combined, after a .750 OPS in 2014.

 

They're wasting option years on Polanco now in an even more haphazard manner.

[Platoon]

Agreed 100%. I hated the decision.

I'm just not a fan of people filling a thread with Told Ya So's based on two games.

we are mad as hell, and ain't gonna take it anymore!

[Platoon]

Disagree. Antony said multiple teams contacted him about Arcia. (I think the word he used was "folks" so interpret that how you may.)

We have no way of knowing if a team like Detroit offered a halfway decent minor leaguer for Arcia only to have the Twins give away Arcia to someone else simply to keep Arcia out of the division. A scenario like that doesn't seem like a stretch at all.

It would be so Twinish to give away Arcia out of the division, but not have room for him on a .333 team. This team is if nothing else a walking contradiction.

[alarp33]

 

Out of options... clearly behind Kepler, Buxton and Grossman. Wasn't playing. Wasn't going to play much... and that's fine. Good for Arcia to be let go. He'll hit once in awhile, but generally, he'll be what he is. Like I wrote, maybe he becomes Danny Valencia in a few years. If so, that's fine.

 

The Twins DH is hitting .194 with a .279 OBP and is 5 years older than Arcia. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

We have no way of knowing if a team like Detroit offered a halfway decent minor leaguer for Arcia only to have the Twins give away Arcia to someone else simply to keep Arcia out of the division. A scenario like that doesn't seem like a stretch at all.

That's highly unlikely. Ryan has never shown reluctance to trade within the division (a good trait of his, unfortunately, his good traits continue to dwindle by the year).

[TheLeviathan]

 

Ah the hyperbole. Is it a 13 man bullpen because so many have rotated through you forgot the 5 who left or on the disabled list? Like Aaron Hicks unreplicated hot month, what has Arcia done the last two years to warrant being kept on the roster as a fifth outfielder?

 

What's hyperbole?  We have 13 pitchers on the roster.  That means we have a 3 man bench pretty much every night.  That's terrible strategy for one, but beyond that, a handful of those guys in that 13 man staff are not worth risking anyone to waivers for.  Certainly not someone who hit like Arcia did his first two years.  

 

We're talking about a guy who had an OPS 200 points higher than our current top prospect in CF and just turned 25.  And we let him go rather than Neil Ramirez.  Or using an option.  

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

What's hyperbole?  We have 13 pitchers on the roster.  That means we have a 3 man bench pretty much every night.  That's terrible strategy for one, but beyond that, a handful of those guys in that 13 man staff are not worth risking anyone to waivers for.  Certainly not someone who hit like Arcia did his first two years. 

Yep. The Twins will almost surely need a 13 man bullpen again because their rotation is, once again, terrible.

 

But going with a 12 man staff for two weeks while you hold on to Arcia over Ramirez or Boshers makes a lot of sense. Both players are waiver fodder... You can go get that guy at any time if you need him.

 

And by then, maybe you've made a decision to demote Park for a month and let him face AAA pitching, clearing space for Arcia.

 

Lots of options, the Twins chose the worst one.

[alarp33]

SSS Alert

 

June:

 

.229/.385/.386   (Grossman)

 

..348/.360/.652  (Arcia)

 

.145/.236/.323  (Park)

 

No room to play the youngest of the 3!

[Boom Boom]

I'm on record as not liking the decision to give up on Arcia, but let's look at the alternatives.

 

They could have given up on Santana instead, but the Twins valued Santana higher than Arcia because he can be put in center field with a straight face. The Twins do not see Santana as an infielder any more than Michael Cuddyer was. He's a fourth outfielder who is out of options, so even if both Arcia and Santana had made it to the end of the season on the 40-man, neither would be likely to return in 2017.

 

They could have sent down the 13th pitcher. The Twins would tell you that they need an extra reliever because the starters are not providing enough innings. Whoever the 13th pitcher is, he is not one of the seven best relievers of the Twins' sorry bullpen lot. Just how many innings a guy like that can soak up is highly dubious.

 

They could have sent down Park. Park has been terrible and absolutely deserves to be demoted. The Twins have him under contract for a couple more years, so sending him down would not have fixed the clogged roster. The Twins will not trade him, at least not this year, because it is bad form to sign an international free agent only to trade him less than a season in.

 

So yeah, the Twins could have made room for Arcia for at least a couple more weeks, but his chances of being a Twin in 2017 were very slim regardless. Keeping him around, in a best case scenario, might have helped win a couple more games in 2016... maybe.

 

The real mistake was signing Park.

[jokin]

 

Ah the hyperbole. Is it a 13 man bullpen because so many have rotated through you forgot the 5 who left or on the disabled list? Like Aaron Hicks unreplicated hot month, what has Arcia done the last two years to warrant being kept on the roster as a fifth outfielder?

 

I suggest that you should have asked the Twins management precisely that question in the offseason, instead.

[jokin]

 

They could have sent down the 13th pitcher. The Twins would tell you that they need an extra reliever because the starters are not providing enough innings. Whoever the 13th pitcher is, he is not one of the seven best relievers of the Twins' sorry bullpen lot. Just how many innings a guy like that can soak up is highly dubious.

 

 

"Sorry bullpen lot", indeed. I was going to go with "A sad cast of castoffs...", but hey, whatever.

 

Given the roster configuration leaving the Twins with a plethora of pitchers with remaining options- plus a bountiful bevy of unwanted arms that can be exposed to waivers w/o fear of being claimed- the Twins' 13th pitcher can, and should, virtually ALWAYS be stashed on the Rochester roster.

[Mike Sixel]

 

We can overreact to what Arcia has done in three games with the Rays, but after Robbie Grossman's first three games with the Twins, Terry Ryan said something to the effect of "we have been rewarded by him. These are the types of moves I need to be doing."

 

This post begs for a LOVE button......

[ThejacKmp]

 

I'd of liked to see him get some more at bats, but the Sano to right field move made that pretty tough. Would it of worked out differently if he had more playing time? Probably not. I would of been more comfortable with the result though.

 

No offense intended and I'm not trying to start a fight - I agree with the content of what you're saying. But my grammar-OCD forces me to say it's "I'd have", "would it have" and "I would have" instead of "I'd of", "Would it of" and "I would of". It really changes the strength and meaning of your point so I though I'd point it out in case it's just a part of English class you zoned out in (understandable, English classes are often boring - especially grammar ones).

 

Apologies if this comes across rude, it just needed to be said or it would bother me all day. Mazel tov!

[Mike Sixel]

 

"Sorry bullpen lot", indeed. I was going to go with "A sad cast of castoffs...", but hey, whatever.

 

Given the roster configuration leaving the Twins with a plethora of pitchers with remaining options- plus a bountiful bevy of unwanted arms that can be exposed to waivers w/o fear of being claimed- the Twins' 13th pitcher can, and should, virtually ALWAYS be stashed on the Rochester roster.

 

This.....this is what AAA and plane tickets are for. But, they have never run that way. I wish they would.

 

I agree with both side, but "read" me out......

 

The FO messed up, imo, in the past. Just like they are with Polanco, wasting options and not giving a young player a real chance in lost seasons. I would argue that never PHing for Suzuki, and giving a young player inconsistent playing time is a bad development process. It's ok to disagree, but do you really think giving a guy an AB here and there is good process? So, yes, they messed up completely in the past. Also, Park, wow, nice signing so far....and, he's 29, try not to call him young anymore.

 

BUT.....as pointed out above, the question is, what do you do now? I can understand the argument that he does not have a spot on this roster. I don't agree, but I can understand it. I really don't think he fits whatever it is Molitor and Ryan are looking for. That's about the only good explanation for how they've "used" him the last 2+ years.

 

Me? I would have sent down a RP, and used plane tickets and Rochester if someone needed a break.....or sent Park to AAA.

 

But, I think there is a lot of hyperbole on both sides here......shocking, I know.

[Mike Sixel]

 

No offense intended and I'm not trying to start a fight - I agree with the content of what you're saying. But my grammar-OCD forces me to say it's "I'd have", "would it have" and "I would have" instead of "I'd of", "Would it of" and "I would of". It really changes the strength and meaning of your point so I though I'd point it out in case it's just a part of English class you zoned out in (understandable, English classes are often boring - especially grammar ones).

 

Apologies if this comes across rude, it just needed to be said or it would bother me all day. Mazel tov!

 

I've been wanting to type this for weeks.......the use of "of" instead of "have" has really been getting to me.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

We can overreact to what Arcia has done in three games with the Rays, but after Robbie Grossman's first three games with the Twins, Terry Ryan said something to the effect of "we have been rewarded by him. These are the types of moves I need to be doing."

Disclaimer: I am not defending Terry Ryan because we're way past that point, in my opinion.

 

But... His comments were pretty innocuous if you read the entire quote. It was more about shaking up the roster than anything Grossman had done to that point (comments which were made literally one day after Grossman was promoted to Minnesota).

 

"Not too long ago, somebody gets in touch with me and our scouting department and said Robbie Grossman would be OK,” Ryan said. “So we signed him and we were rewarded. These are types of things I need to be doing. We’re in dire straits here. This just isn’t going well at all. So I have to be prepared to change it up and move some pieces. Whether you call it shuffling the deck or shaking it up.

 

“Some people are calling it panic. I get that, OK. We’re in a mode here where I better be creative enough to do some things to help along the cause. We’re struggling to a point where we haven’t been able to right it. So I’m going to have to do some things.”

[Mike Sixel]

It might have been creative to actually let Arcia play.....but yes, Brock, in context it is less damning....

[dgwills]

 

No offense intended and I'm not trying to start a fight - I agree with the content of what you're saying. But my grammar-OCD forces me to say it's "I'd have", "would it have" and "I would have" instead of "I'd of", "Would it of" and "I would of". It really changes the strength and meaning of your point so I though I'd point it out in case it's just a part of English class you zoned out in (understandable, English classes are often boring - especially grammar ones).

 

Apologies if this comes across rude, it just needed to be said or it would bother me all day. Mazel tov!

What? Screw you guy! Just kidding. Unfortunately I was pretty lazy in English class. I only wrote one paper throughout high school and one in college before dropping out. Reading a lot just doesn't seem to improve grammar since all the work has been done already.

Does "I'd've" work?

[Kwak]

This thread is approaching Joe Benson territory--another failed prospect! Things would be a lot cooler around here if posters would stop adopting new prospects to be "the next hero" and accept that this guy will likely be "the next failure." If, by the chance of the lottery, said prospect actually does succeed then we can all be happy!

[Platoon]

Disclaimer: I am not defending Terry Ryan because we're way past that point, in my opinion.

 

But... His comments were pretty innocuous if you read the entire quote. It was more about shaking up the roster than anything Grossman had done to that point (comments which were made literally one day after Grossman was promoted to Minnesota).

 

"Not too long ago, somebody gets in touch with me and our scouting department and said Robbie Grossman would be OK,” Ryan said. “So we signed him and we were rewarded. These are types of things I need to be doing. We’re in dire straits here. This just isn’t going well at all. So I have to be prepared to change it up and move some pieces. Whether you call it shuffling the deck or shaking it up.

 

“Some people are calling it panic. I get that, OK. We’re in a mode here where I better be creative enough to do some things to help along the cause. We’re struggling to a point where we haven’t been able to right it. So I’m going to have to do some things.”

Your disclaimer allows this observation. We were/are in dire straights here. (Great name for a band btw) But Grossman is not the antidote. Just admitting an overhaul is needed, and proceeding in that direction is. I know I'd of done it! . One could have argued that Robbie will not block anyone, but that is only if one ignores the last 20 years!

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Your disclaimer allows this observation. We were/are in dire straights here. (Great name for a band btw) But Grossman is not the antidote. Just admitting an overhaul is needed, and proceeding in that direction is. I know I'd of done it! . One could have argued that Robbie will not block anyone, but that is only if one ignores the last 20 years!

This entire season has been one fiasco after another.

 

*shrugs*

 

I don't get too upset about any single move because I'm baffled by most of them. I'd lose my mind if I put too much thought into it.

[Platoon]

There is a long held understanding that the use of math on GT is highly discouraged. I can only hope that the proper use of the Kings English is also highly discouraged on posts such as this. I am too old to go back to remedial English, and even if I did, I doubt my almost fanatical distaste for Mr. Jensen's attempts to get me to pay attention have abated.

[Shane Wahl]

Wait, did the great Joe Benson's name get sullied again here . . . ?

[Major League Ready]

A number of posters have pointed out how poorly the roster constructed, yet there seems to be 12 pages of failure to recognize that’s what is happening.  Buxton and Kepler are in all likelihood the CF and RF for a number of years to come.  This move suggests that they believe Rosario will be back and occupy LF until a new prospect can bump one of them from the OF.  In that case, Grossman and Santana round out the OF roster nicely.

 

Grossman will be in the lineup against LH SPs, and provide pinch hitting at times and he is not a big detriment in the field. They can also count on him for a quality AB every time he steps to the plate. That certainly could not be said of Arcia.  Santana provides b/u to all OF positions and SS or even 2B, plus late inning pinch runner and defensive replacement.  That’s a valuable bench guy.

I wanted Arcia to get as much of a chance as possible but the reaction here is a bit of a head scratcher.

[alarp33]

 

 Santana provides b/u to all OF positions and SS or even 2B, plus late inning pinch runner and defensive replacement.  That’s a valuable bench guy.

I wanted Arcia to get as much of a chance as possible but the reaction here is a bit of a head scratcher.

 

So in your scenario Grossman is the 4th OFer, Santana is the 5th.  Rosario - Buxton - Kepler

 

1) Who is Santana pinch running for (how many times has he been used this way?)?

2) Who is he the defensive replacement for, because he is a far worse option than any of your 3 starting OFers

3) He hasn't played SS or 2B this year. Why do you think he is needed to back those up? Isn't Grossman backing up the OF?

4) Who is the DH? That is the position Arcia could've / should've been used at

[Mike Sixel]

 

A number of posters have pointed out how poorly the roster constructed, yet there seems to be 12 pages of failure to recognize that’s what is happening.  Buxton and Kepler are in all likelihood the CF and RF for a number of years to come.  This move suggests that they believe Rosario will be back and occupy LF until a new prospect can bump one of them from the OF.  In that case, Grossman and Santana round out the OF roster nicely.

 

Grossman will be in the lineup against LH SPs, and provide pinch hitting at times and he is not a big detriment in the field. They can also count on him for a quality AB every time he steps to the plate. That certainly could not be said of Arcia.  Santana provides b/u to all OF positions and SS or even 2B, plus late inning pinch runner and defensive replacement.  That’s a valuable bench guy.

I wanted Arcia to get as much of a chance as possible but the reaction here is a bit of a head scratcher.

 

This would be a great argument, on a team that used PHers and pinch runners well, and if Santana wasn't a terrible base stealer somehow. I am sympathetic to this, but I'm not sure it is how he is best used here. Maybe that changes as the year goes on, we'll see.

[alarp33]

I have to admit, until Arcia was DFA'd I had no idea how many people valued a bench spot for a pinch runner (a guy who can't really even steal bases, but is fairly fast) and the need for a 13th pitcher (Ramirez has pitched once in 10 days). *

 

 

 

*On a team that is 24-51

[jimmer]

 

I have to admit, until Arcia was DFA'd I had no idea how many people valued a bench spot for a pinch runner (a guy who can't really even steal bases, but is fairly fast) and the need for a 13th pitcher (Ramirez has pitched once in 10 days). *

 

 

 

*On a team that is 24-51

Kind of makes me wonder who some people are watching when they see Santana as a defensive replacement for someone.   Let's figure, for a moment, that the OF will eventually be Buxton, Kepler and Rosario (at least until he shows he's not starter material, which I think he's already done, but whatever). Who would Santana defensively replace? Which starter is he a better defender than?  And he's very, very likely not going to come in for defensive replacement for anyone in the IF.

 

And, really, we can't pretend he's a good pinch runner either.  It's not just about speed.  It's about smarts too.  We also know stealing bases is not his thing, right?  I mean he's tied for the league lead in caught stealing even though he's only made 17 attempts.