No love for FO at the Sporting News

[Platoon]

I am just going to post this for everyone's perusal. Beyond that, what's left to say?

 

http://www.startribune.com/like-on-field-product-twins-front-office-ranked-among-worst-in-mlb/382982591/

[DaveW]

Honestly at this point, it's so obvious that the FO is a disaster I have moved on to 100% apathy with this season and this organization as a whole. The minute the Twins can win 15 of 25 games or fire someone, then it will be worth paying attention again.

[gmarais66]

I think it's telling that a publication with such a high standing in the sports world recognizes the ineptitude that is the Twins' front office. It also affirms the belief of so many Twins' fans that something is fatally flawed in the way the team goes about the business of constructing its roster. Will it change anything? Highly unlikely. It will be business as usual for the foreseeable future. As long as the team is making money, I don't think the Pohlads are motivated to do anything to change the front office. So we are stuck watching mistake after mistake play out in one miserable season after another. It's sad and it's frustrating, but there's nothing we can do about it.

[bluechipper]

The pitching contracts are awful, but the minor league system struggles seem to be too early to call, and that was a large part of the article.

 

And apparently Sporting News considers an .870 OPS for Miguel Sano to be struggling, unless they're factoring in his struggle at a position he's never played before.

[alarp33]

 

The pitching contracts are awful, but the minor league system struggles seem to be too early to call, and that was a large part of the article.

 

And apparently Sporting News considers an .870 OPS for Miguel Sano to be struggling, unless they're factoring in his struggle at a position he's never played before.

 

What did they say about Sano? The Star Tribune article must've cut that part out

[d-mac]

 

What did they say about Sano? The Star Tribune article must've cut that part out

 

The article never mentioned Sano. It did however mention that the Twins misguidedly based their team on last years record and not their underlying stats, planing on Santana, Nolasco, and Hughes was a mistake, and that the Twins' vaunted farm system has yet to produce any results. 

[bluechipper]

 

What did they say about Sano? The Star Tribune article must've cut that part out

They lumped Sano in along with Buxton, Rosario, and Berrios as highly thought of prospects who have struggled so far in the MLB.

[bluechipper]

 

The article never mentioned Sano. It did however mention that the Twins misguidedly based their team on last years record and not their underlying stats, planing on Santana, Nolasco, and Hughes was a mistake, and that the Twins' vaunted farm system has yet to produce any results. 

"The Twins pitching staff continues to underperform and the highly touted young talent (Byron Buxton, Miguel Sano, Eddie Rosario, Jose Berrios) have struggled to produce at the highest level."

[d-mac]

I think 28th is a bit generous, actually. Quite honestly, it's hard to rank the Reds and Angels lower than the Twins. At least they have a vision, however poorly executed. The Twins seemingly fail to understand the basics of the 40 man roster- and every move seems knee-jerk reactionary. They are the least process oriented team in baseball. 

[dgwills]

I think if you include the inability to develop pitching the Twins have the worst front office in the League. You can at least look at a few things Cincinnati and the LAA angels have done well. What are the Twin's success stories over the last 6 years. Plouffe and Dozier? Maybe you can credit them with Sano, but he has been mismanaged and the GM who signed him resigned shortly after that.

 

[alarp33]

 

"The Twins pitching staff continues to underperform and the highly touted young talent (Byron Buxton, Miguel Sano, Eddie Rosario, Jose Berrios) have struggled to produce at the highest level."

 

Obviously Sano has not struggled to produce, but I'm still not seeing his name in any article? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just wondering if there is a bigger write-up somewhere than I am seeing.  

 

Meanwhile, the products of a once-ballyhooed farm system have largely failed to deliver, casting player development into question. Fun times.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/list/baseball-gm-rankings-front-office-2016-best-worst-cubs-epstein-yankees-cashman-angels/oxjvydv7a1zs1tmadzrlq2l9t/slide/3

 

 

Edit: I see what you are saying now... that is not the Sporting News, that is the Star Trib who included Sano

[d-mac]

 

"The Twins pitching staff continues to underperform and the highly touted young talent (Byron Buxton, Miguel Sano, Eddie Rosario, Jose Berrios) have struggled to produce at the highest level."

 

Not what Sporting News actually said:

 

 

This is what happens when you believe in your win-loss record instead of paying attention to the underlying numbers when you go about trying to build for the following season. It’s also what happens when you commit dollars and term to Phil Hughes, Ricky Nolasco and Ervin Santana with expectations that they will be staff leaders.

 

Meanwhile, the products of a once-ballyhooed farm system have largely failed to deliver, casting player development into question. Fun times.

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/list/baseball-gm-rankings-front-office-2016-best-worst-cubs-epstein-yankees-cashman-angels/oxjvydv7a1zs1tmadzrlq2l9t/slide/3

[Vanimal46]

 

Honestly at this point, it's so obvious that the FO is a disaster I have moved on to 100% apathy with this season and this organization as a whole. The minute the Twins can win 15 of 25 games or fire someone, then it will be worth paying attention again.

That's where I'm at too. I still enjoy this site, and talking baseball with everyone here. But when it comes to actually watching the games, I can't say I've watched a full game in well over a month. 

[Platoon]

TiVo makes life simpler, but it's almost a sad feeling knowing that nothing matters. A 15 game wins streak would mean bleep!

[HitInAPinch]

Guess many others posted the SN vs. Strib article  

 

The first part:

 

"This is what happens when you believe in your win-loss record instead of paying attention to the underlying numbers when you go about trying to build for the following season. It’s also what happens when you commit dollars and term to Phil Hughes, Ricky Nolasco and Ervin Santana with expectations that they will be staff leaders."

 

100% true.

 

2nd part

 

"the products of a once-ballyhooed farm system have largely failed to deliver, casting player development into question"  is largely true. 

 

IF you leave out the NEED to replace injured veterans.  BIG difference from the "largely failed to deliver" commentary.  Many of these young players were called up before their time.  Not 100% sure that can be blamed on management.  But whom else would that be?

 

[wsnydes]

 

That's where I'm at too. I still enjoy this site, and talking baseball with everyone here. But when it comes to actually watching the games, I can't say I've watched a full game in well over a month. 

If it weren't for attending games that I've already paid for, this would fit me to a tee.  I've boycotted spending any money and/or time on this team otherwise...and I'm a season ticket holder.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

What veteran was injured to put Buxton in the opening day lineup?

 

Or Hicks before him (twice)?

[clutterheart]

 

If it weren't for attending games that I've already paid for, this would fit me to a tee.  I've boycotted spending any money and/or time on this team otherwise...and I'm a season ticket holder.  

 

It would be an interesting experiment if season ticket holders asked for a refund.  Not a publicity stunt via twitter or something stupid like that, but simply started submitted letters Andy Dufresne style.  

[wsnydes]

 

It would be an interesting experiment if season ticket holders asked for a refund.  Not a publicity stunt via twitter or something stupid like that, but simply started submitted letters Andy Dufresne style.  

The group of ticket holders that sit next to us was actually joking about that very thing.  I couldn't tell if she was serious or not.

 

I haven't received my annual call from my ticket rep either.  Maybe he just hasn't gotten around to calling me!  

[Winston Smith]

I wonder how many more years of this before the Terry holdouts stop coming up with excuses for Terry and friends?

[nicksaviking]

Just to clarify, the link on the OP is to the Strib who did an article about the Sporting News rankings.

 

The Strib included this link to the Sporting News article:

 

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/list/baseball-gm-rankings-front-office-2016-best-worst-cubs-epstein-yankees-cashman-angels/oxjvydv7a1zs1tmadzrlq2l9t/slide/3

[wsnydes]

 

Didn't Pirates season ticket holders and fans stage a walkout one year when they were still bad. I think season ticket holders and fans at the game should empty out the stadium, refusing to buy concessions so that the management finally get's the fact that Twins fans are sick of the country club that runs this organization and want them to go away. 

Ha!  I don't remember that, but that's something I'd endorse.  I don't have nearly as much invested as some, but I have enough that I've started to question renewal.  The only reason I still have them is because I enjoy baseball so much and it's virtually guaranteed that at least one legitimate team shows up for games.  Even that is getting tougher to justify.

 

[Platoon]

The group of ticket holders that sit next to us was actually joking about that very thing.  I couldn't tell if she was serious or not.

 

I haven't received my annual call from my ticket rep either.  Maybe he just hasn't gotten around to calling me!

 

I heard he moved to Dubuque

[wsnydes]

 

I heard he moved to Dubuque

My last ticket rep moved to Green Bay, so Dubuque is an improvement. 

[Rosterman]

Yes, the ability to develop pitching has to be an eyesore. In order to address these needs, the front office traded away viable players in Revere and Span for up-and-coming prospects May and Meyer. Somehow, the latched onto Worley, or lasted as long as the much-vaulted prospect Humber did, that the Mets gave us in the Santana deal. And even going back to that deal, we got who in the pitching category: Guerra and Mulvey (as well as Go Go Gomez) and, by extension, Rauch, Brett Jacobson and Jim Hoey. But those get laid at the feet of the Bill Smith era.

 

And then we drafted. 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/draft/research.asp?Y1=2008&Y2=2015&R=&RS==&Ov=&Ovs==&T=17&Player=&School=&Pos=P&HL=&Region=&P=June-Reg&CT=&Bonus=0&Signed=&Active=&Source=&Bats=&Throws=&Sort=

 

The list of guys from the past five years. Yes, there is hope...but where are they fort his year and how many will be there next year. Even when drafting collegiate relief pitchers, who can learns their ways from the back-of-the-bullpen, or even the home of a future starter as the 13th pitcher in the bullpen getting an occasional start, we have been pretty darn dismal. Have employed an awful lot of pitchers for a season or two...but journeymen who continue to hold onto roster spots in the Indy leagues of AAA ball with the hopes of another glimpse at major league life.

 

And regarding Free Agency = Target Field, which was going to allow the Twins to hold onto their own Free Agents (i.e. overpay) instead of overpaying for those who may/may not pan out in any ways. Free Agency is a crapshoot except in a very limited case, depending on the length of contracts and is totally governed by the needs and wants of players and their agents.  Plus a marketplace that will heavily reward certain players due to team standings, as well as an organization of owners that usually throw good business practices out the window.

 

Maybe that is it. The Twins try to run their business of baseball as a good, honest business. Carefully planned and budgeted. They try to keep appealing to their limited marketplace and draw as many dollars as they can, without taking risks, going for flash, and always keeping a hard-line on the bottom-line, so even if they do fail, it is just an "of year" or "the other teams were better, but watch out."

 

Good for the Sporting News for calling out the Twins.

 

 

 

[mazeville]

You can't objectively look at this front office and conclude anything but this: It's a total disaster.

 

Free agent signings generally failed. And when the team found good free agents - Phil Hughes and Kurt Suzuki -- the front office quickly negated that by signing them to odd, long-term extensions. 

 

Trades have failed. The team's trades of Ben Revere and Denard Span were miserable failures. 

 

I'll give some time for Berrios, Buxton, Kepler and Sano. But anyone who says that this is the front office that collected those players needs to remember that a team that has had four years of 90-loss seasons is clearly going to amass top prospects.

 

Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs, the Texas Rangers and others have rebuilt faster and done a better job, starting with young talent.

 

It's awful. And if there's anything good that comes out of this season, it'll be a complete overhaul of that tired, old-school front office staff.

[alarp33]

 

You can't objectively look at this front office and conclude anything but this: It's a total disaster.

 

Free agent signings generally failed. And when the team found good free agents - Phil Hughes and Kurt Suzuki -- the front office quickly negated that by signing them to odd, long-term extensions. 

 

Trades have failed. The team's trades of Ben Revere and Denard Span were miserable failures. 

 

I'll give some time for Berrios, Buxton, Kepler and Sano. But anyone who says that this is the front office that collected those players needs to remember that a team that has had four years of 90-loss seasons is clearly going to amass top prospects.

 

Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs, the Texas Rangers and others have rebuilt faster and done a better job, starting with young talent.

 

It's awful. And if there's anything good that comes out of this season, it'll be a complete overhaul of that tired, old-school front office staff.

 

I agree with everything you wrote except the Revere trade. He is not a good player and not missed. Trevor May if used correctly is far more valuable than Revere

[Mike Sixel]

 

I agree with everything you wrote except the Revere trade. He is not a good player and not missed. Trevor May if used correctly is far more valuable than Revere

 

We don't know that for sure, do we? We are how many years into the trade now?

 

I mean, i agree, it is likely May is good if allowed to start....but we don't know that for sure.

[REPETE]

 

 

 

Meanwhile, teams like the Cubs, the Texas Rangers and others have rebuilt faster and done a better job, starting with young talent.

 

Not sure Cub fans would agree with how fast they've been rebuilt.  

[Monkeypaws]

I'm old enough to remember when the Twins were Baseball America's organization of the year.

 

Hard to find anything good of late, except picking up Nunez's option (which I would have declined). D'oh. there I go again shooting myself in the foot.