Cardinals send down Kolten Wong

[mazeville]

The St. Louis Cardinals yesterday sent down second baseman Kolten Wong, even though they signed Wong to a $25 million contract three months ago. 

 

Wong has been terrible for the Cards, with a .591 OPS so far this year. It made sense for them to send him down, given that the Cardinals are contending and have plenty of other middle infield options.

 

My question: Should the Twins do the same with Brian Dozier?

 

Dozier is often considered on par with Wong. He, too, has a long-term deal. He's been a bit better than Wong this year, with a .649 OPS on the season. 

 

Yet Dozier was not very good in the second half of last year. His pull-happy approach has made it more difficult for him to get hits given modern shifting strategies. And pitchers just aren't giving him the same pitches they did to make him an all star last year. Perhaps the Twins should send Dozier down and instruct him to start hitting the ball the other way.

 

Then again, the Twins aren't exactly contending like the Cardinals, so the Twins could afford to let Dozier fix himself up here. In addition, Dozier is a potential trade candidate if he can fix himself, and sending him down would eliminate whatever trade value he had. And Dozier perhaps earned the right to fix himself in the majors. But he's had a year to do that, and still hasn't done so.

 

Regardless, the Twins have to figure out which Brian Dozier they have, because they have Jorge Polanco waiting in the wings to take over the second base job. 

 

 

 

 

[sorney]

 

The St. Louis Cardinals yesterday sent down second baseman Kolten Wong, even though they signed Wong to a $25 million contract three months ago. 

 

Wong has been terrible for the Cards, with a .591 OPS so far this year. It made sense for them to send him down, given that the Cardinals are contending and have plenty of other middle infield options.

 

My question: Should the Twins do the same with Brian Dozier?

 

Dozier is often considered on par with Wong. He, too, has a long-term deal. He's been a bit better than Wong this year, with a .649 OPS on the season. 

 

Yet Dozier was not very good in the second half of last year. His pull-happy approach has made it more difficult for him to get hits given modern shifting strategies. And pitchers just aren't giving him the same pitches they did to make him an all star last year. Perhaps the Twins should send Dozier down and instruct him to start hitting the ball the other way.

 

Then again, the Twins aren't exactly contending like the Cardinals, so the Twins could afford to let Dozier fix himself up here. In addition, Dozier is a potential trade candidate if he can fix himself, and sending him down would eliminate whatever trade value he had. And Dozier perhaps earned the right to fix himself in the majors. But he's had a year to do that, and still hasn't done so.

 

Regardless, the Twins have to figure out which Brian Dozier they have, because they have Jorge Polanco waiting in the wings to take over the second base job. 

Interesting concept....but I think there is no chance it will happen.  If the Twins org was going to model itself after one, the Cardinals should fly to the top of the list.

[alarp33]

Kolten Wong is 25, Brian Dozier is 29... unfortunately I think the latter just is what he is at this point.  If he was capable of fixing his issues (hitting the ball to right), he would do it.  I'm not really sure what is to be gained by sending him to AAA.  

[TheLeviathan]

I'd be more interested in seeing if Wong is a buy-low candidate.

[mazeville]

 

Kolten Wong is 25, Brian Dozier is 29... unfortunately I think the latter just is what he is at this point.  If he was capable of fixing his issues (hitting the ball to right), he would do it.  I'm not really sure what is to be gained by sending him to AAA.  

 

I don't know if I buy the idea that Dozier can't fix himself just because he's 29. That means none of us who are older than 29 have no hope of improving at our jobs.

 

Many players have made late-career changes to extend their careers or suddenly become all stars. 

 

In Dozier's case, it's a matter of adjusting his approach at the plate to keep both pitchers and defenders honest. I think some time in AAA could help him make that adjustment.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Dozier has shown he can go opposite field in the past.  I have no problems sending him down to get an extended look at Polanco.  I guess however, the question is whether or not Brian is being stubborn and refusing to correct, if he's unable, or something else altogether.  If it's the first two, a trip to Rochester makes some sense.

[alarp33]

 

I don't know if I buy the idea that Dozier can't fix himself just because he's 29. That means none of us who are older than 29 have no hope of improving at our jobs.

 

 

That's not an accurate analogy at all, unless your job is professional baseball and you're incapable of doing anything but selling out to pull the ball down the line.  

[mazeville]

 

That's not an accurate analogy at all, unless your job is professional baseball and you're incapable of doing anything but selling out to pull the ball down the line.  

 

That's a perfectly accurate analogy. He has a job. It's professional baseball. And like every other job you have to adapt to changes in technology or work demands or whatever.

 

Baseball players need to make adjustments at the plate if they're to have good, long-time careers. Brian Dozier needs to do that right now. He's perfectly capable of it, whether he's 29 or 25. 

 

 

[Thrylos]

 

The St. Louis Cardinals yesterday sent down second baseman Kolten Wong, even though they signed Wong to a $25 million contract three months ago. 

 

[...]

 

My question: Should the Twins do the same with Brian Dozier?

 

The Twins should trade Brian Dozier to the Cardinals

 

They play Gyorko right now at 2B who is more of a utility type.  They are in 3rd place right now.  Interesting to see how panicked they are

[alarp33]

 

That's a perfectly accurate analogy. He has a job. It's professional baseball. And like every other job you have to adapt to changes in technology or work demands or whatever.

 

Baseball players need to make adjustments at the plate if they're to have good, long-time careers. Brian Dozier needs to do that right now. He's perfectly capable of it, whether he's 29 or 25. 

 

You realize his job relies mainly on physical ability / talent, and (most of) ours doesn't?  Physical ability and talent decrease when you reach high 20's, 30's. 

[alarp33]

 

The Twins should trade Brian Dozier to the Cardinals

 

They play Gyorko right now at 2B who is more of a utility type.  They are in 3rd place right now.  Interesting to see how panicked they are

 

Carpenter is going to 2B it sounds like, Peralta was activated to play 3B

[HitInAPinch]

 

That's not an accurate analogy at all, unless your job is professional baseball and you're incapable of doing anything but selling out to pull the ball down the line.  

I would add that, in terms of being a MLB player, if you don't / can't do something at age 29, I have to wonder how you got there in the first place.

[alarp33]

 

I would add that, in terms of being a MLB player, if you don't / can't do something at age 29, I have to wonder how you got there in the first place.

 

I go back to the Fangraphs article that's been posted here from pre-2015.  Some guys "sell-out" by trying to yank every pitch to extend their careers... Dozier just had to do that even earlier, to have a career.   I think he is stubborn, but at the same time I'm not sure he has the physical skills to be a complete hitter

[HitInAPinch]

 

 

That's a perfectly accurate analogy. He has a job. It's professional baseball. And like every other job you have to adapt to changes in technology or work demands or whatever.

 

Baseball players need to make adjustments at the plate if they're to have good, long-time careers. Brian Dozier needs to do that right now. He's perfectly capable of it, whether he's 29 or 25. 

No, that is not even close to an "accurate analogy".  Dozier's job is physical in nature:  athletic, eye/hand coordination, etc.  Comparing that to an office worker isn't really accurate.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm not really sure what is to be gained by sending him to AAA.  

Clear playing time for Polanco?

 

To achieve that, you either have to trade someone, demote someone, and/or bench someone.  If a trade opportunity isn't there, the easiest solution is optioning Dozier.  (Every other infielder is out of options, Escobar is already on the bench, and Plouffe and Nunez need/deserve a starting opportunity more than Dozier right now.)

 

Then Dozier and Polanco can both keep playing everyday, without the other guy looking directly over their shoulders either.

[mazeville]

 

The Twins should trade Brian Dozier to the Cardinals

 

They play Gyorko right now at 2B who is more of a utility type.  They are in 3rd place right now.  Interesting to see how panicked they are

 

At this particular point I'd probably trade Brian Dozier for a bag of baseballs. Because I think Jorge Polanco will play better RIGHT NOW. For a lot less money.

[alarp33]

 

Clear playing time for Polanco?

 

To achieve that, you either have to trade someone, demote someone, and/or bench someone.  If a trade opportunity isn't there, the easiest solution is optioning Dozier.  (Every other infielder is out of options, Escobar is already on the bench, and Plouffe and Nunez need/deserve a starting opportunity more than Dozier right now.)

 

Then Dozier and Polanco can both keep playing everyday, without the other guy looking directly over their shoulders either.

 

Put me in the camp that Polanco should be playing in MN regardless, so if sending Dozier down is the easiest way to make sure the manager does that, then sure.   I guess I mean it more as "sending him down isn't going to "fix" him".  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Put me in the camp that Polanco should be playing in MN regardless, so if sending Dozier down is the easiest way to make sure the manager does that, then sure.   I guess I mean it more as "sending him down isn't going to "fix" him".  

Mostly agreed, but I think Dozier could benefit from a lower-pressure opportunity to experiment with adjusting his approach, it has to be hard to do that at the MLB level.

 

But yeah, primarily it's the only practical way to get Polanco back in MLB right now, barring a sudden trade.

[mazeville]

 

No, that is not even close to an "accurate analogy".  Dozier's job is physical in nature:  athletic, eye/hand coordination, etc.  Comparing that to an office worker is pretty silly.

 

Only comparing Dozier to an "office worker," or any worker, for that matter, on the basis of evolution.

 

I'm a professional. And I've had to evolve over the years to adapt to the growing demands of my job. And while that does not involve "hand-eye coordination," it does involve "learning new things." Asking Brian Dozier to learn a new thing is not out of the question. 

 

Can he do it? I don't know. But I refuse to believe he can't simply because he's 29. 

 

[lukeduke1980]

 

I'd be more interested in seeing if Wong is a buy-low candidate.

We have enough 'projects' thank you

[Platoon]

In addition, Dozier is a potential trade candidate if he can fix himself, and sending him down would eliminate whatever trade value he had. In a parallel universe I would agree totally with this statement. Sadly we are mired in TwinsWorld. (How do I make the little tm sign thingy) TwinsWorld, where if BD fixes himself he is too valuable to trade, and if he doesn't we can't get enough for him to make a trade worth it! TwinsWorld! Tickets still available.

[gunnarthor]

I know he has options available but I thought there was something in the CBA that limited when you could send a player down, even if he has options - it was a close call on Jessie Crain a few years back and was a reason the Yankees couldn't send down Giambi.

 

I can't remember the rule but I thought he kicked in in year 5.  So I'm not sure they could send him to the minors.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In addition, Dozier is a potential trade candidate if he can fix himself, and sending him down would eliminate whatever trade value he had.

Temporarily sending down Dozier will not significantly impact his trade value (unless perhaps he struggles in AAA too).

 

I agree that his trade value won't go up while he's in AAA, but frankly it's unlikely to go up significantly before July 31st regardless.

 

I'd rather get my looks at Polanco now rather than wait until August.  If Nunez or Plouffe gets traded, or someone gets hurt, Dozier can come back then.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I know he has options available but I thought there was something in the CBA that limited when you could send a player down, even if he has options - it was a close call on Jessie Crain a few years back and was a reason the Yankees couldn't send down Giambi.

 

I can't remember the rule but I thought he kicked in in year 5.  So I'm not sure they could send him to the minors.

At 5 years service time, players can refuse to be sent to the minor leagues.  Dozier isn't quite at 4 years service time right now, so they can freely option him for at least the next 12 months, if they so desire.  (And of course any time in the minor leagues would push back the date he reaches 5 years service.)

 

Also, if we optioned him in the next 5 days, and he didn't return to MLB this season (admittedly that would probably be bad, from a performance or health perspective), he would still be short of 4 years service time at the end of the season.  And thus he would be under team control for an extra year (2019).  Probably not worth it, but something to think about.

[Rosterman]

Someday we will have players tell us their real stories about what it is like to be a professional...from that first call-up to cashing that first big dream check to making millions and getting a longterm contract and how that details with the way they play their careers. We have to remember that this is a sport with superstars, but even the middle-of-the-team guys can earn untold millions to play a game in which they can be easily replaced if they don't keep changing and playing hard. It's always a gamble.

 

Plus you always have the question: Am I being rewarded for what I have done, or being paid for what I will do.

 

It is a sport where you get more pay if you put butts in the sets, show greatness in an area or two. But unlike the old days of servitude, where you got an increase because of service time and age, or maybe a decrease because you didn't do what you did the previous year...the incentive in modern times is to play for that big contract, get it, and then...what goes thru your mind.

 

How many players ramp it up a bit in a contract year?

 

Even arbitration means you have to play at or above your previous seasons to get a bigger payday. You will still get an increase more than likely.

 

And the old old incentive from those pre-divisional days where teams finish in the standings meant anotehr bonus to a player, sometimes that bonus was more than their yearly salary compared to the pocket change and tax problem it is now.

 

The Twins have two guys - Plouffe and Dozier. Both are capable of putting up solid numbers before their careers end. Right now, one is expensive...actually both are expensive...for what they bring to the team. In Dozier's case, maybe a trip to AAA would be beneficial and a 2-4 week look at Polanco as a regular at second base would let the Twins truly see what they have in this young man. He is, as we know, out of options next year and will be on the roster as a backup, if nothing more. If Dozier fixes what he needs to fix, we might suddenly have two options...the vet or the rookie, two tradeable assets, and force another decision.

 

Or maybe trade Dozier to a team like the Cardinals for Wong (who the Twins had drafted but didn't sign). A lot of times a change of place can benefit a player AND a team.

 

AND, ON  SIDE NOTE: why is Dozier in the top-of-the-order if he has to work on stuff. Put him in the 9th spot until he figures it out. Right after Suzuki and Plouffe.

[gunnarthor]

 

At 5 years service time, players can refuse to be sent to the minor leagues.  Dozier isn't quite at 4 years service time right now, so they can freely option him for at least the next 12 months, if they so desire.  (And of course any time in the minor leagues would push back the date he reaches 5 years service.)

 

Also, if we optioned him in the next 5 days, and he didn't return to MLB this season (admittedly that would probably be bad, from a performance or health perspective), he would still be short of 4 years service time at the end of the season.  And thus he would be under team control for an extra year (2019).  Probably not worth it, but something to think about.

Thanks!

[Boom Boom]

I think it's pretty clear that the Twins like Dozier... a lot.

 

Despite hitting barely above the MenDozier Line (see what I did there), he was recently moved to THIRD in the batting order.

 

The Twins think Dozier is just in a slump... a slump that's been going on for about the last six months.

[bluechipper]

I thought Wong had put up better MLB numbers prior to this year, but they're actually not that great. He had good minor league numbers, but it seems like a bit of a risky sign for the Cards to guarantee $25M to a guy that was coming off a .707 OPS in 2015.