Souhan rips Perkins and Hughes

[gunnarthor]

http://www.startribune.com/with-perkins-and-hughes-where-is-the-sense-of-urgency/380440381/

 

Pretty rough stuff.  "You didn’t have to work hard to hear complaints about both of them in the Twins clubhouse and throughout the organization. There were times a player would talk about teammates willingly playing hurt while glaring across the clubhouse at Perkins."  

 

Souhan does acknowledge that the players might be more hurt than we know but both came into camp out of shape and neither has required surgery for their ailments.  

 

"Members of the Twins organization have told me that there were key figures with the team who wanted to trade Perkins this winter, and that there is one key figure who questions whether Perkins will pitch again this season. The latter is probably more indicative of the pessimism Perkins has inspired in the organization than a reflection of reality."

 

I usually think when a local writer writes something like this the team has given it's tacit approval to do so.

[Mike Sixel]

If only they had traded Perkins 2-3 years ago.....but hey, closers on losing teams are pretty important.....

[HitInAPinch]

I can't say this as a fact, but it at least seems like the Twins hang onto players well past their productive years or simply because they're hometown boys.  "Sell High" is my motto.

[alarp33]

I'm not a fan of Souhan, and think generally it's a pretty slippery slope to rip players for being hurt... BUT, it's refreshing to see the media start to take on some of the Veterans (not just pick on the young guys), and think Perkins and Hughes are more than deserving of criticism.  I hope the Brian Dozier column is next.  

[DaveW]

"Playing hurt" Is one of the dumbest things in sports, how is Perkins or Hughes "playing hurt" going to help this team anyways? We saw how ineffective Perkins was once he got hurt last year (and into this year).

 

Ditto with Hughes who is clearly not 100%, the smart thing to do would be to shut him down and see if he can get his velocity back.

 

It's kind of low rent IMO that the front office is leaking this sort of stuff anyways, instead of blaming a couple veterans who are injured, maybe the local scribes can blame the GM who decided there was no need for a plan B or C in the bullpen and who decided to give a guy an extension off a career year.

[Rosterman]

So why is Perkins NOT on the 60-day disabled list. Not that we need to fill his 40-man spot with some AAAA guy or something, but still.......

[alarp33]

 

So why is Perkins NOT on the 60-day disabled list. Not that we need to fill his 40-man spot with some AAAA guy or something, but still.......

 

You answered your own question. There's no need to put him on there until they need that 40 man spot

[gunnarthor]

 

I can't say this as a fact, but it at least seems like the Twins hang onto players well past their productive years or simply because they're hometown boys.  "Sell High" is my motto.

Actually, the rip used to be that they never hung onto their guys ...

[Oxtung]

This is a terrible article.

[DaveW]

 

If only they had traded Perkins 2-3 years ago.....but hey, closers on losing teams are pretty important.....

Yeah, I like how they had discussions this off-season, a point in which Perkins trade value was at a low point considering he was injured the last half of 2015.

 

Pitchers get hurt, it happens, it's part of the game, every team in baseball faces it. It's cheap and petty to criticize/blame Hughes and Perkins for getting hurt.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

You answered your own question. There's no need to put him on there until they need that 40 man spot

Well, they could have done it a few weeks ago and kept Graham, or optioned Fien.  Or a month ago, and kept John Hicks.  Or at any time and added James Beresford to sit on the bench, and let Polanco play every day in AAA if they didn't plan to play him in MLB.  (Or if they were really proactive, early in the season with a similar situation around Kepler.)

[Mr. Brooks]

I think the point is that some players and management think a lack of conditioning is to blame for the injuries.

If that is the case, then you absolutely can blame the player.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't like ripping on players for being hurt either, so I won't pick on Perkins or Hughes much.  But at the very least, this is further evidence of a toxic clubhouse...

[gunnarthor]

 

I think the point is that some players and management think a lack of conditioning is to blame for the injuries.
If that is the case, then you absolutely can blame the player.

Yeah, I think that was the central point.  

[alarp33]

 

Well, they could have done it a few weeks ago and kept Graham, or optioned Fien.  Or a month ago, and kept John Hicks.  Or at any time and added James Beresford to sit on the bench, and let Polanco play every day in AAA if they didn't plan to play him in MLB.  (Or if they were really proactive, early in the season with a similar situation around Kepler.)

 

Right - but they had open 40 man spots for a handful of those moves, I don't think Perkins not being on the 60 changed much.  Graham was cut when his spot wasn't needed, same with Fien.  When Polanco got called up I believe they had one of the Graham/ Fien/ Milone open spots for Beresford had they wanted it... what you and I would do is much different than how they manage their roster

[Vanimal46]

 

"Playing hurt" Is one of the dumbest things in sports, how is Perkins or Hughes "playing hurt" going to help this team anyways? We saw how ineffective Perkins was once he got hurt last year (and into this year).

 

Ditto with Hughes who is clearly not 100%, the smart thing to do would be to shut him down and see if he can get his velocity back.

 

It's kind of low rent IMO that the front office is leaking this sort of stuff anyways, instead of blaming a couple veterans who are injured, maybe the local scribes can blame the GM who decided there was no need for a plan B or C in the bullpen and who decided to give a guy an extension off a career year.

Yep. I don't know why they ran with this article to be honest. Last year when Perkins tried to play hurt, we were upset that he didn't speak up earlier, and as a result, blew some saves that could have potentially punched our ticket into the playoffs. 

I think there's a lot bigger fish to fry in this organization instead of ripping on pitchers who could be more injured than the organization admits to. 

[TheLeviathan]

I'll never rip a player for admitting he's hurt and getting healthy.

 

Conditioning is another matter entirely and that's where this article should focus.  And Perkins taking some accountability for his struggles rather than whining about his role would help too.

[DaveW]

Also, isn't Perkins like really into long distance running or something? That seems to clash with the idea that his conditioning was poor.... I mean the guy is running half marathons and stuff, it's not like he was sitting on his couch all off-season or something.

 

Perkins has been a class act his whole time in Minnesota and has been a heckuva player for the Twins, it's really crappy that the org is making him out to be the scapegoat now. "Minnesota nice" indeed, "anonymous passive aggressive" comments from the front office about him. Bush league.

[Mr. Brooks]

Also, isn't Perkins like really into long distance running or something? That seems to clash with the idea that his conditioning was poor.... I mean the guy is running half marathons and stuff, it's not like he was sitting on his couch all off-season or something.

 

Perkins has been a class act his whole time in Minnesota and has been a heckuva player for the Twins, it's really crappy that the org is making him out to be the scapegoat now. "Minnesota nice" indeed, "anonymous passive aggressive" comments from the front office about him. Bush league.

What does distance running have to do with conditioning his shoulder strength and flexibility?

If he was a basketball or hockey player, distance running might be an applicable training methods. But, for a baseball reliever? Probably not important.

[ShouldaCouldaWoulda]

 

http://www.startribune.com/with-perkins-and-hughes-where-is-the-sense-of-urgency/380440381/

 

Pretty rough stuff.  "You didn’t have to work hard to hear complaints about both of them in the Twins clubhouse and throughout the organization. There were times a player would talk about teammates willingly playing hurt while glaring across the clubhouse at Perkins."  

 

Souhan does acknowledge that the players might be more hurt than we know but both came into camp out of shape and neither has required surgery for their ailments.  

 

"Members of the Twins organization have told me that there were key figures with the team who wanted to trade Perkins this winter, and that there is one key figure who questions whether Perkins will pitch again this season. The latter is probably more indicative of the pessimism Perkins has inspired in the organization than a reflection of reality."

 

I usually think when a local writer writes something like this the team has given it's tacit approval to do so.

I am less surpassed that this was allegedly said about Perkins, but I have not heard any rumors about Hughes before.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Right - but they had open 40 man spots for a handful of those moves, I don't think Perkins not being on the 60 changed much.

Sure, but since at least April 14 (David Murphy), the team has been trying to add a veteran outfielder.  So the spot that opened up around May 7th wasn't really "open" for Beresford.  (They also called up Polanco twice in April when they didn't have an open spot.)

 

Point is, if they were viewing Perkins through a realistic lens, they could have managed this better.  I think once again they were way too optimistic about how quickly Perkins could return and how much he could really help our pen anyway, and as a result we've sacrificed some development time/information for Kepler and Polanco.

[markos]

 

I'll never rip a player for admitting he's hurt and getting healthy.

 

Conditioning is another matter entirely and that's where this article should focus.  And Perkins taking some accountability for his struggles rather than whining about his role would help too.

Souhan is doing a little bit of hand-waving here. He continually references that Perkins and Hughes showed up out-of-shape last spring, and it is only at the very end of the article that it becomes explicit that he is referring to the 2015 spring training and that "Perkins and Hughes looked to be in better physical condition this spring than last."

[Han Joelo]

Grasping at straws, perhaps.  It is interesting to start to see behind the curtain, even if it is bush league passive-aggressive.  I think spycake sums it up best; just another example of how toxic things have gotten.  I'm sure there is some truth to it, and it may just be a lot of finger pointing as the ship sinks.  But, where there is the smoke...

 

In retrospect, to use Souhan's words, I remember getting an uneasy feeling when the so-called team leaders were "endearingly" including Park in their little Bachelor viewing parties during spring training.  I despise 'reality' tv, even 'manly' crap like Ice Road Truckers.  I don't know (talk about grasping at straws, or straw men) but I'm going to go ahead and say it--if you're team leaders' idea of a good time is sitting around watching the "Bachelor," I'm not surprised they are now being accused of being soft.

 

They should have been watching a pirated bootleg of Star Wars 7.  Han Solo is dead, the First Order just blew up every planet in the Republic, and Luke Skywalker has gone missing.  Time to man up and blow up the Death Star.  Instead, these guys are debating who should get the rose.

[nicksaviking]

 

 

Perkins has been a class act his whole time in Minnesota and has been a heckuva player for the Twins, it's really crappy that the org is making him out to be the scapegoat now. "Minnesota nice" indeed, "anonymous passive aggressive" comments from the front office about him. Bush league.

 

He wasn't so classy back in 2009 when he threw a stink about his much deserved demotion.

 

I agree with gunnar though, the Twins ship is so tight, that I can't imagine that someone didn't intentionally leak this stuff. It is a hack job accusing these players of not playing hurt which probably means these guys are throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks hoping against hope that they can stave off mass firings. And really, maybe people are throwing the players under the bus because the players ARE negligent, we don't know, but it still won't matter, you can't fire all the players, especially when they make 20x more than the guys responsible for scouting and signing them.

 

I think the bigger take away is Souhan's implication that there is a fracture among the players and perhaps the vets aren't as revered as they are supposed to be.

[DaveW]

Spoiler alerts!!!!

[Shane Wahl]

Is there a damn journalist in that town who is good? Is there no middle ground between being naively in-line with everything the team does and an article like this? If there is a "tacit" approval from the team . . . then oh my god that is even more childish.

 

Players "looking across the room at Perkins" . . . really?

 

By the way, players who play hurt are idiots. End of story. The playoffs are a time for that, maybe.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Souhan is doing a little bit of hand-waving here. He continually references that Perkins and Hughes showed up out-of-shape last spring, and it is only at the very end of the article that it becomes explicit that he is referring to the 2015 spring training and that "Perkins and Hughes looked to be in better physical condition this spring than last."

 

I agree, his argument is poorly structured.

[Blake]

 

Grasping at straws, perhaps.  It is interesting to start to see behind the curtain, even if it is bush league passive-aggressive.  I think spycake sums it up best; just another example of how toxic things have gotten.  I'm sure there is some truth to it, and it may just be a lot of finger pointing as the ship sinks.  But, where there is the smoke...

 

In retrospect, to use Souhan's words, I remember getting an uneasy feeling when the so-called team leaders were "endearingly" including Park in their little Bachelor viewing parties during spring training.  I despise 'reality' tv, even 'manly' crap like Ice Road Truckers.  I don't know (talk about grasping at straws, or straw men) but I'm going to go ahead and say it--if you're team leaders' idea of a good time is sitting around watching the "Bachelor," I'm not surprised they are now being accused of being soft.

 

They should have been watching a pirated bootleg of Star Wars 7.  Han Solo is dead, the First Order just blew up every planet in the Republic, and Luke Skywalker has gone missing.  Time to man up and blow up the Death Star.  Instead, these guys are debating who should get the rose.

Glad I'm not the only one that thought "The Bachelor" viewing was weird. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

He wasn't so classy back in 2009 when he threw a stink about his much deserved demotion.

Nor was Perkins a "class act" in 2014 when publicly ripped Josmil Pinto after his demotion:

 

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/extra-bases/2014/06/17/glen-perkins-throws-josmil-pinto-under-bus/10674587/

[Mike Sixel]

I don't care what they watch on tv, I can't believe anyone here thinks that's an issue. Like, I really cannot believe it at all.

 

Sounds, frankly, like you are trying hard not to imply something about their manhood.....