Raising the Mauer panic level...

[Mr. Brooks]

Lol, Mauer's contract isn't preventing the Twins from doing anything. What do you suggest they do, ask for it back? They could bench him, Lord knows this team is good enough for that. Still have to pay him though.

 

Tired of hearing the Mauer bad contract stuff, could be the most beaten horse on this site.

That's just not true.

This team has a self imposed salary cap, so to say Mauer's contract doesn't prevent them from spending money is just bad math.

 

Saying it's been beaten to death is a fair take, in fact I probably agree with it. But saying his salary doesn't matter just isn't true.

[jimmer]

If Mauer wasn't getting his money, if he hadn't been signed, Pohalds would be 23M a year richer or we'd have 3-4 mediocre players being paid instead.

[USAFChief]

Lol, Mauer's contract isn't preventing the Twins from doing anything. What do you suggest they do, ask for it back? They could bench him, Lord knows this team is good enough for that. Still have to pay him though.

 

Tired of hearing the Mauer bad contract stuff, could be the most beaten horse on this site.

I'm not sure what they should do, but I do think the Mauer contract prevents them from doing things.

 

I agree they SHOULDN'T let it, but they operate with a self imposed salary cap. In their eyes, they will spend X amount, and Mauer eats up a good chunk of that.

 

It's a bad contract, eating up salary and returning little production. Not as bad, perhaps, but similar to Nolasco's contract, or Hughes', or other bad contracts.

 

Closing our collective eyes, putting our fingers in our ears, and "lah lah lah'ing" doesn't help.

[twinsnorth49]

 

That's just not true.
This team has a self imposed salary cap, so to say Mauer's contract doesn't prevent them from spending money is just bad math.

Saying it's been beaten to death is a fair take, in fact I probably agree with it. But saying his salary doesn't matter just isn't true.

What is that salary cap? I didn't say it prevented them from spending money, I said it doesn't prevent them from doing anything, which it doesn't. This team is not held back by Mauer's contract, period.

[DrNeau]

$23 million with poor production as a return does matter. You laugh, fine. I didn't say it prevents the team from doing anything, but you can't just brush off $23 million like it's not a factor at all. That being said, even if he was making league minimum, the lack of production is frustrating. That applies to Joe and to most everyone on the team. I can't believe how poorly this season is going.

[Mr. Brooks]

What is that salary cap? I didn't say it prevented them from spending money, I said it doesn't prevent them from doing anything, which it doesn't. This team is not held back by Mauer's contract, period.

With that money they could go sign a good #2 borderline ace FA pitcher. So yeah, it prevents them from doing things.

[jimmer]

 

With that money they could go sign a good #2 borderline ace FA pitcher. So yeah, it prevents them from doing things.

and you figure that Ryan would actually do that?  If so, based on what?

[Mr. Brooks]

and you figure that Ryan would actually do that? If so, based on what?

Maybe he would, probably not.

With Mauer on the books he can't though.

It might go from 1 % to 0 %, but that is still something.

[jimmer]

 

Maybe he would, probably not.
With Mauer on the books he can't though.
It might go from 1 % to 0 %, but that is still something.

He could have spent more instead of settling for Ervin...and didn't.  5-7 M more a year likely gets us a truly quality guy.  

 

Instead he signs supposed mid-level guys like Hughes, Nolasco and Ervin Santana.

 

Yes, now, Mauer's contract looks bad but it didn't for a few years and I believe only the concussion caused the downfall.

[Guest]

1. Mauer is about where I expected statistically - a little better than last year. April is not his true talent level, nor is May.

 

2. Mauer's performance is irrelevant to the team's record. His April didn't help; a better May would not make much difference.

 

3. Mauer's salary is what it is. It seemed like a good deal at the time and is not a large impact in signing free agents.

 

4. The biggest problem with Mauer is that he occupies a position that forces Sano to play out of position, impacting his development. This is as much of a management issue as a Mauer issue, unless he is insisting that he will not play OF, in which case it would be a Mauer issue.

 

5. The whole team is TSF. These players are not this bad; no collection of major league players have ever been this bad. This is not a Mauer issue, even though some people wish that (1) he had a totally different personality and (2) a totally different personality would flip the winning percentage from .250 to .550. Everyday, someone else finds a way to lose a game. The 2016 Twins may be the video journal of the old phrase, "You can't fire 25 players. . ."

[Guest]

With that money they could go sign a good #2 borderline ace FA pitcher. So yeah, it prevents them from doing things.

Don't disagree with the "could." However, looking at FA pitchers that were signed in the past few years, whom do you think the Twins might (not should) have gone after, whom they would have (not should have) offered a deal that was the same as or better deal than the one he signed, and who would have taken that deal with the Twins instead of the team he signed with? I'm struggling to come up with anyone.

[Mr. Brooks]

Don't disagree with the "could." However, looking at FA pitchers that were signed in the past few years, whom do you think the Twins might (not should) have gone after, whom they would have (not should have) offered a deal that was the same as or better deal than the one he signed, and who would have taken that deal with the Twins instead of the team he signed with? I'm struggling to come up with anyone.

Johnny Cueto.

I'm not going to play the "would he sign here" game, that's impossible to know.

Offering what Mauer makes would have been 1.5 million per year more than SF signed him for.

Who knows if he'd accept it, but it would at least be an option.

[DocBauer]

The issue is still not Mauer's contract! The unfortunate, almost comedic, tragedy is Mauer's FA season came after the best year of his career. But let's say that season was more like his traditional production seasons and gold glove defense and he signed for $17-18M instead. It would still be considered a bad contract in today's debates.

 

But who had a fully functional crystal ball that could see injury and especially concussions suddenly reducing his game the way it has and forcing him from behind the plate? Anyone? The Twins have been absolutely blasted for letting Mauer walk even if he had a "normal" season.

 

If he was hitting the way he has the past couple of seasons while still playing a quality catcher position, he might still be considered overpaid, but at least we wouldn't have a hole behind the plate, and his production would still be better than most.

 

We're talking about unfortunate circumstances bordering on a baseball "tragedy" for lack of a better term. The point should be, what happens next?

[Mr. Brooks]

The issue is still not Mauer's contract! The unfortunate, almost comedic, tragedy is Mauer's FA season came after the best year of his career. But let's say that season was more like his traditional production seasons and gold glove defense and he signed for $17-18M instead. It would still be considered a bad contract in today's debates.

 

But who had a fully functional crystal ball that could see injury and especially concussions suddenly reducing his game the way it has and forcing him from behind the plate? Anyone? The Twins have been absolutely blasted for letting Mauer walk even if he had a "normal" season.

 

If he was hitting the way he has the past couple of seasons while still playing a quality catcher position, he might still be considered overpaid, but at least we wouldn't have a hole behind the plate, and his production would still be better than most.

 

We're talking about unfortunate circumstances bordering on a baseball "tragedy" for lack of a better term. The point should be, what happens next?

I don't think a person has to disagree with the contract offer to think that it's been a hindrance.

They had no choice really, I realize that and admit it, which is why I already agreed it's been beaten to death.

That still doesn't change the fact that it hampers the FO.

We can argue that it shouldn't, but it absolutely does, it's basic math.

[DocBauer]

I don't think a person has to disagree with the contract offer to think that it's been a hindrance.

They had no choice really, I realize that and admit it, which is why I already agreed it's been beaten to death.

That still doesn't change the fact that it hampers the FO.

We can argue that it shouldn't, but it absolutely does, it's basic math.

I won't dismiss this thought at all. You're right, of course, there is still a math situation in regard to budgeting, whether said budget is $120M or $200M. But there is almost an obsession that his contract single-handedly handcuffs the team, and I just think that's true.

 

I wrote before the season that I wondered if Mauer had another season like the past two, or even regreased further, considering pride, age, his family, lack of effectiveness, if he himse,f might just decide it was time to walk away. Especially if the Twins made it worthwhile by deferring some money, or signing him a personal services contract or something of that nature.

[Mr. Brooks]

I won't dismiss this thought at all. You're right, of course, there is still a math situation in regard to budgeting, whether said budget is $120M or $200M. But there is almost an obsession that his contract single-handedly handcuffs the team, and I just think that's true.

 

I wrote before the season that I wondered if Mauer had another season like the past two, or even regreased further, considering pride, age, his family, lack of effectiveness, if he himse,f might just decide it was time to walk away. Especially if the Twins made it worthwhile by deferring some money, or signing him a personal services contract or something of that nature.

I agree the contract doesn't doom them.

They could always decide to go over budget a few million dollars per year for a few years. That's not illegal, and given how badly they swindled us with the public money for the stadium, it's actually the least they could do.

 

Also, they could employ smart people and win with a restrained payroll like several other teams have done.

 

I won't disagree with any of that stuff. It just grinds my gears when people claim it has no impact.

[Minniman]

 

Mauer signed a contract that no one would ever turn down. The complaints about him not being a 23 million dollar player . One too many bonks to the head and he is no longer the  5-7 WAR player he was.  When he signed the contract I do not recall that there was anybody much saying it was a bad contract. 

 

I do understand your point, but I said it was a bad contract on day one.

 

Mauer should bat second or seventh.

 

 

 

[jimmer]

 

I do understand your point, but I said it was a bad contract on day one.

 

Mauer should bat second or seventh.

He should bat 2nd.  I agree with that whole-heartedly. On this team, 7th would be ridiculous. Who are the six guys who should get more at bats than the guy with the .380+ OBP?

[USAFChief]

The issue is still not Mauer's contract! The unfortunate, almost comedic, tragedy is Mauer's FA season came after the best year of his career. But let's say that season was more like his traditional production seasons and gold glove defense and he signed for $17-18M instead. It would still be considered a bad contract in today's debates.

But who had a fully functional crystal ball that could see injury and especially concussions suddenly reducing his game the way it has and forcing him from behind the plate? Anyone? The Twins have been absolutely blasted for letting Mauer walk even if he had a "normal" season.

If he was hitting the way he has the past couple of seasons while still playing a quality catcher position, he might still be considered overpaid, but at least we wouldn't have a hole behind the plate, and his production would still be better than most.

We're talking about unfortunate circumstances bordering on a baseball "tragedy" for lack of a better term. The point should be, what happens next?

I think, and argued long and hard for it years ago on BYTO, that the worst thing to do was let Mauer continue to catch.

 

He should be in his 10th year as the Twins third baseman, and perhaps then we're not having this conversation.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm past the point of thinking any struggles with Mauer are concussion related.  This isn't about staying at catcher too long, this is about his skill set/approach not sustainable at this stage in his career.

 

He's always been late on the ball/hit to the opposite field and now his bat speed has turned many of those soft line drives to LF into strikeouts.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think, and argued long and hard for it years ago on BYTO, that the worst thing to do was let Mauer continue to catch.

He should be in his 10th year as the Twins third baseman, and perhaps then we're not having this conversation.

 

Preach it.

 

As for the money.....no chance, imo, that TR puts all his eggs in a legit Ace type. From what we can tell, he like options, lots of options. The problem with lots of options is, they aren't really options. You can't just cut a FA 1 year into a 4 year deal......so, now you have 4 bad players, not 1 bad player, and you can't fix the 3 bad spots easily......

[Vanimal46]

 

I think, and argued long and hard for it years ago on BYTO, that the worst thing to do was let Mauer continue to catch.

He should be in his 10th year as the Twins third baseman, and perhaps then we're not having this conversation.

Yep. Pick your poison of 3B, LF, RF.. any would have worked. IMO they doubled up on the mistake by having him learn 1B. Basically eliminated one of his strengths, the good arm in the field. 

[Pardon My Dinger]

 

Yep. Pick your poison of 3B, LF, RF.. any would have worked. IMO they doubled up on the mistake by having him learn 1B. Basically eliminated one of his strengths, the good arm in the field. 

And we still would have had to trade Plouffe.

[Taildragger8791]

The money side of his contract isn't really the problem to me, although an extra $10-$15 million to play with might be nice. The problem is he's entrenched at 1B for years with a bat the seriously underperforms that position. That's one of the easiest positions to find a big bat, which we desperately need, and that option is off the table for the duration of his contract. Instead, we have to put our young offensive tackle in right field which is dragging down the overall defense and may be affecting Sano's offense as well. Even if Mauer's contract were $10 million/yr he'd probably still be entrenched at 1B with a full no-trade clause and that, to me, is the biggest hindrance.

[Mike Sixel]

 

 

The money side of his contract isn't really the problem to me, although an extra $10-$15 million to play with might be nice. The problem is he's entrenched at 1B for years with a bat the seriously underperforms that position. That's one of the easiest positions to find a big bat, which we desperately need, and that option is off the table for the duration of his contract. Instead, we have to put our young offensive tackle in right field which is dragging down the overall defense and may be affecting Sano's offense as well. Even if Mauer's contract were $10 million/yr he'd probably still be entrenched at 1B with a full no-trade clause and that, to me, is the biggest hindrance.

 

 

I think that's a fair concern. One that I mostly share, frankly.

[Rosterman]

Would ANY other team trade for him to play first base?

 

Do the Twins have better options for someone to play first base?

 

Can he play ANY other position?

 

He was rewarded franchise player money. Nothing wrong with that. But then his salary should be considered outside of the yearly bubble of dollars and sense.

 

Sadly, it stopped paying off once he was moved from catcher. The jerseys have gone down in sales. He is not the commercial darling (no Twin is a commercial darling right now, except for modeling shirts on the scoreboard for some company).

 

We can argue that he is NOT a team leader and we can WONDER if he has any future coaching abilities...to be that 25th roster guy who can play first and maybe another position, as well as DH, but also HELP players.

 

Again, would any other team trade for him right now? NO. Would they pay his contract? NO

 

Would they take him if the TWINS paid his contract in part? Doubtful.

 

Stop batting him first? Molitor, have you seen the results yet? It's like letting Berrios not pitch out of a first inning, it's like your constant need to change pitchers after one or two outs, it's the need to find playing time for defensive subs because guys are playing out of position, it is lack of a good, solid plan that should've been on paper out of spring training. Or maybe it is a total system failure.

 

 

[Dr. Evil]

Do not worry about his plunging batting average. Soon he will break out and bestow upon us a singles and walks filled "hot streak" that will send his batting average and on base percentages skyward!

[OldTimeTwinkie]

Kind of a different slant on Mauer. Saw the commercial the other day on Twins players playing wiffle ball at a park. It ends with Mauer hitting. Low and behold he hits the wiffle ball to left field. Some things never change

[savvyspy]

Start worrying when TR signs a .150 hitting first baseman off the scrap heap and tries to demote him to AAA to teach him a lesson in the Twins Way. That is the only tool Ryan seems to think is at his disposal at this point.

 

Slumps are slumps. Mauer will be fine.

[Winston Smith]

 

Start worrying when TR signs a .150 hitting first baseman off the scrap heap and tries to demote him to AAA to teach him a lesson in the Twins Way. That is the only tool Ryan seems to think is at his disposal at this point.

 

Slumps are slumps. Mauer will be fine.

What do you consider fine?