Game Thread: Twins vs Orioles, 5/10/16 @ 7:10 PM CT

[LaBombo]

 

Are we going to be sellers at the deadline? \m/

 

They're losing 75% of their games,   so my answer is yes,    as long as the deadline is getaway day on Memorial Day weekend.

 

Edit:   For a little extra perspective of how bad they've been,   they can play .500 ball the rest of the way and still lose 90 games.

[Aggies7]

Cmon fellas...no fighting. The team sucks and everyone responsible for this record should be up for release/firing or death by 1,000 paper cuts

[PseudoSABR]

 

But can we connect TR's failures to the lack of success his teams have had under his leadership overall? (One playoff series win in 18 seasons, trending towards 4 90 loss seasons in 5 seasons since he has come back?)

I suppose we only look at his failures because those six division wins in nine years don't support your point.   If you insist on looking at the whole record at least concede the parts that don't fit your preferred conclusion.  Anyone can cherry pick the past.

[DaveW]

 

Dude.  Again, what would we have TR do - two bullpen arms, and (a veteran) centerfielder.  That doesn't prevent Molitor from putting Jepsen out there too long, or keep the Twins from striking out at record pace.   We were looking to add a few parts, not reconstruct the roster.   The team looks listless and undisciplined; I know you hate TR, so you can go ahead and blame him, but for my part there's a problem connecting TR's failure in getting bullpen and outfield help to the actual failures on the field.  THat's not giving TR a pass, it's assessing with whom the failure most lies.

What would we have TR do?

 

1. Address the disaster that is the bullpen not only this offseason, but the last two off-seasons and seasons prior.

 

2. In regards to a "veteran CF", we had a perfectly solid defensive CF who was coming off a season that showed some offensive upside as well in Aaron Hicks, instead of trading him for a backup Catcher who has hit .070 and has played terribly behind the dish, perhaps we should have held onto him a bit longer. (Note: Hicks got off to a brutal start, but suddenly has come alive recently with a .900 OPS in his last ten games....while playing gold glove OF D)

 

3. Instead of signing, then resigning (Hughes) and overpaying for mediocre middle/back end of the rotation arms like Nolasco, Hughes and Santana, perhaps he could have used even a smidge of that money to fix the bullpen, the catcher position, the OF position etc in the meantime. OR, OR, OR....sign an actual front of the rotation type pitcher!

 

I don't "hate" TR, that is an easy lazy argument to make of course though, the reality is that since he has been back he has pretty much failed in every signing, trade, etc other than the Park signing.

[Platoon]

You forgot the one playoff series win also!

[DiscGolfer]

 

Are we going to be sellers at the deadline? \m/

What are we going to sell?  My discman from 1998?

[Aggies7]

You forgot the one playoff series win also!

Man, that was fun. I was a sophomore in high school then. I have now lost my hair. Not sure if there's any correlation.

[Mr. Brooks]

No. You don't understand correctly (Are you trying to?). TR assembled a roster of largely young players who were suppose to grow into their roles, and continue the trend from last year. The systemic nature of the failure isn't in the personnel it's in the lack of development and discipline.

 

Clearly TR didn't do enough to help the team this winter. If that's enough for you to give Molitor a pass, well, keep it at, Cheif.

Terry Ryan hand picked Mollie to manage this group. Whatever percent fault is on Mollie (which is a lot, his ability to manage borders on complete incompetence, IMO), goes right back to Terry.

[DaveW]

 

 

I suppose we only look at his failures because those six division wins in nine years don't support your point.   If you insist on looking at the whole record at least concede the parts that don't fit your preferred conclusion.  Anyone can cherry pick the past.

How many  playoff series did he win? (one) How many playoff games have the Twins won in the past 12 years? (zero)

 

Winning a division that went between terrible and mediocre isn't some grand accomplishment in mine or many other folks books.

 

Besides, that as you mentioned was "the past" I ask you how have the Twins done since he came back as GM? Worst record in baseball? Check. On pace for 90+ losses in every season but one? Check. Zero playoff wins/appearances? Check.

[Kwak]

 

Dude.  Again, what would we have TR do - two bullpen arms, and (a veteran) centerfielder.  That doesn't prevent Molitor from putting Jepsen out there too long, or keep the Twins from striking out at record pace.   We were looking to add a few parts, not reconstruct the roster.   The team looks listless and undisciplined; I know you hate TR, so you can go ahead and blame him, but for my part there's a problem connecting TR's failure in getting bullpen and outfield help to the actual failures on the field.  THat's not giving TR a pass, it's assessing with whom the failure most lies.

So, it's Molitor's fault?   Stuck withJepsen too long?  Let's see none on, two out, and place him?  Wt foresight!  And why would anybody be ready?  Please recall that Tonkin was lifted Sunday because all he did was throw BP.  Sorry, at some point the players need to show grit and professionalism--and damn few of them are!

 

[Aggies7]

So, it's Molitor's fault?   Stuck withJepsen too long?  Let's see none on, two out, and place him?  Wt foresight!  And why would anybody be ready?  Please recall that Tonkin was lifted Sunday because all he did was throw BP.  Sorry, at some point the players need to show grit and professionalism--and damn few of them are!

I would always have someone ready when KJ is pitching. Just my two pennies.

[USAFChief]

 

What are we going to sell?  My discman from 1998?

How much?  Come with batteries?

[LaBombo]

 

I suppose we only look at his failures because those six division wins in nine years don't support your point.   If you insist on looking at the whole record at least concede the parts that don't fit your preferred conclusion.  Anyone can cherry pick the past.

 

The problem is that Ryan picked most of his cherries in the past,  ten years or more.   One postseason series win in 25 years is a fairly soft record for even a 'low budget' franchise,   and they're not one any more.

 

Ryan gets credit for the good years of the past decade,   but it's time for him to accept his share of the blame for the failures of this decade,  and for the Twins organization to reluctantly and belatedly step into the 21st century by looking for a new GM.

[howeda7]

 

And it continues! I could live with the non FA in the BP, since it seemed the stated plan was to bring in some of the younger relief arms. But we don't. We just keep shuffling mediocre talent. I have no idea whether Chargois, Meyer, Buxton, Polanco, Kepler, Burdi et al will make it or not. But we have reached the time and place to find out. I am likely going to get killed for saying this after Plouffes night, but it started with the keeping Plouffe thing. It set the OF up to be a disaster. Buxton, Hicks, or Kepler would have caught that deep fly ball in CF, and the line drive to Sano was catchable by an actual OF. But in reality this isn't the result of just a BP decision or Plouffe non trade. It's the result of years of just gettin by, and now the chickens have come home, and it ain't just to roost!

 

I suppose we only look at his failures because those six division wins in nine years don't support your point.   If you insist on looking at the whole record at least concede the parts that don't fit your preferred conclusion.  Anyone can cherry pick the past.

He's had the job for 18 years. He was horrible for the first 6 and the last 6. That's not cherry-picking. It's failure 2/3 of the time. If you had that track record, you'd be fired.

 

This team will never win a World Series or likely even a play-off series as long as Terry Ryan is the GM. 

[Mr. Brooks]

The problem is that Ryan picked most of his cherries in the past, ten years or more. One postseason series win in 25 years is a fairly soft record for even a 'low budget' franchise, and they're not one any more.

 

Ryan gets credit for the good years of the past decade, but it's time for him to accept his share of the blame for the failures of this decade, and for the Twins organization to reluctantly and belatedly step into the 21st century by looking for a new GM.

This.

At some point the two sides of the argument are going to have to meet in the middle and agree that it doesn't have to be an "either/or" discussion.

It's possible that Terry Ryan was a good, competent, successful GM during the second half of his first tenure, but that the game has passed him by in his second tenure.

It eventually happens to everyone, no matter your profession.

[DiscGolfer]

 

How much?  Come with batteries?

it comes with batteries but they'er dead, when it does work it skips a bit.  It's worth about as much as half the bullpen and all the catchers

[DaveW]

 

This.
At some point the two sides of the argument are going to have to meet in the middle and agree that it doesn't have to be an "either/or" discussion.
It's possible that Terry Ryan was a good, competent, successful GM during the second half of his first tenure, but that the game has passed him by in his second tenure.
It eventually happens to everyone, no matter your profession.

 

Captain Briggs: I ought to bust your ass down to traffic. Or better yet, kick it off the force! You're a dinosaur, Callahan. Your ideas don't fit today.

 

If only Terry Ryan was as awesome as Dirty Harry though

[LaBombo]

 

it comes with batteries but they'er dead, when it does work it skips a bit.  It's worth about as much as half the bullpen and all the catchers

 

On any other night than Arcia's bootariffic World Cup game 'winner',   your post would have been my best laugh of the night.

[Reider]

 

I don't see anyone actually "defending" Molitor a whole lot. The one constant in these last several seasons without making the playoffs isn't Jepsen, Molitor, or anyone else in the bullpen or lineup.  It's Ryan.

Correct, but the Twins were very close to making the playoffs last year and this year they haven't been able to get going. What has changed?.

 

Of course Terry Ryan didn't do much in the off season besides getting Park (which has been viewed as a positive signing) and trading Hicks away for Murphy, so you must also ask yourself what other constants there from last year. Most players and coaches are constants from last year.

 

At some point the players and coaches need to be held accountable as well. It's not like all of the players from last year are playing the same as they did last year and then you can point to Terry Ryan and say "Look Terry, the guys from last year are playing every bit as good as they were last year and it's still not enough." That's simply not the case, therefor Ryan can't shoulder all of the blame. Had the players production been the same from last year, one could make a strong argument that Ryan didn't do enough in the off season.

[Mr. Brooks]

Correct, but the Twins were very close to making the playoffs last year. Of course Terry Ryan didn't do much in the off season besides getting Park (which has been viewed as a positive signing) and trading Hicks away for Murphy, so you must also ask what other constants there are. Most players and coaches are constants from last year.

 

At some point the players and coaches need to be held accountable as well. It's not like all of the players from last year are playing the same as they did last year and then you can point to Terry Ryan and say "Look Terry, the guys from last year are playing every bit as good as they were last year and it's still not enough." That's simply not the case, therefor Ryan can't shoulder all of the blame. Had the players production been the same from last year, one could make a strong argument that Ryan didn't do enough in the off season.

Last year was based on one fluke month of May.

Outside of that month it was indistinguishable from the other four 90 loss seasons.

Shame on a supposedly good "baseball man" for not recognizing that.

[USAFChief]

Last year was also something of a fluke in that 83 wins kept them in it until the last weekend of the season.  I don't think that will be the norm, even with 2 WCs now.

[CampQ]

You must be really old.

Lolz

 

It's in print in the Case of Wagner, which is not one of his major works. Had I been alive to hear it it would have meant nothing to me because I have no German.

[CampQ]

Argh. Pens scored in OT, Caps are done. No more Nhl for me this year, shucks.

The Caps looked awful.

[twinsnorth49]

So Jepsen couldn't close the deal eh? Whould'a thunk?

 

**** I'm sick of this **** show of a team.

[Comrade Bork]

So Jepsen couldn't close the deal eh? Whould'a thunk?

**** I'm sick of this **** show of a team.

Not sick of. Morbidly curious by*

[Teflon]

Oswaldo Arcia is to outfield defense as derivatives on subprime mortgages are to investment banking.

[CampQ]

Oswaldo Arcia is to outfield defense as derivatives on subprime mortgages are to investment banking.

Too big to fail?

[twinsnorth49]

The Caps looked awful.

Meh, hardly awful. They came back from, 3-0 down, pumped 39 shots and dominated possession the last half of the game. PP let them down a bit I suppose, although they bagged 2.

 

Pittsburgh is a good team, last shot won

[CampQ]

Meh, hardly awful. They came back from, 3-0 down, pumped 39 shots and dominated possession the last half of the game. PP let them down a bit I suppose, although they bagged 2.

 

Pittsburgh is a good team, last shot won

It looked to me like they did not dominate possession at any point except the lengthy 5 on 3, which they barely managed to take advantage of.

 

I also live in the DC area now, and the Caps have been crammed down my throat. So maybe it is underwhelming the hype and schadenfreude that slant my perspective of the game, but the Pens looked like the better team for almost all of it

[Reider]

 

Last year was based on one fluke month of May.
Outside of that month it was indistinguishable from the other four 90 loss seasons.
Shame on a supposedly good "baseball man" for not recognizing that.

 

You're welcome to believe what you want. I believe that good athletes and teams create their own luck. Players and teams go on hot streaks and go into slumps. A good "baseball man" should know that. The Twins just happened to have a hotter month than normal. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't call it fluke. When you're on, you're on. When you're not, you're not.