Reusse: Sano has some growing up to do

[70charger]

 

Just out of curiosity......why does he need to change anything if it isn't hurting his ability to produce on the field? 

 

From where I'm sitting:

 

Moving to the outfield may or may not hurt his ability to produce. The collective reaction: "OMG, this front office is so stupid!"

 

Gaining 50 pounds over the last few years and not making an effort to stay in shape may or may not hurt his ability to produce. The collective reaction: "OMG, people just need to stop picking on Sano. This is more 'Twins Way' stuff like what happened with Ortiz!"

 

Let's get some consistency here, please. I think it's absolutely fair to criticize his work ethic because work ethic matters. Yes, he should get a chance to prove Reusse wrong. But come on now.

[Dozier's Glorious Hair]

 

This article reminds me of a quote about Kent Hrbek. It was along the lines of "If he got in shape we would not be able to afford him".

Not that Sano is in that territory yet. Realistically I would have to agree with Dave that we can't complain about Sano because his play on the field has been excellent. He's done his job and earned his paycheck. It's not Sano's fault that the Twins decided he should be an outfielder in the offseason. It's his life and if he doesn't want to do an extreme work out and diet program to become an outfielder, then that's his decision. If he signed a huge contract to play the outfield I would feel differently.

 

Herbie was a great talent who could've had a great career. Instead, mainly due to his inability/unwillingness to stay in shape, he merely had a good one.

 

I just hope Sano doesn't end up the same way.

[Doubles]

 

Going home and visiting your family during the winter break is not wrong, switching agencies is not wrong, doing an autograph session during your own time is not wrong. Molitor is talking down on him when he hasn't done anything wrong.

 

The minute Sano gets in off the field trouble or doesn't get along with his teammates then by all means bring this up. The minute Sano stops hitting bombs at a 35+ HR pace as a 22 year old with a .900+ OPS then feel free to bring up his weight. Until that time, Molitor/Reusse need to stop with the jabs when there is frankly nothing there.

 

This just reeks of Sano not being the "Twins way", we finally get a player who shows a little attitude (while still loving the game), is knowledgeable enough to capitalize on his own brand (by signing with Roc Nation) and we start seeing these comments and articles.

 

Let's go down a list of the other guys who weren't the "Twins way" and we saw these type of articles come out:

 

David Ortiz

Matt Garza

Francisco Lirinao

 

 

hmmm....

I would generally agree with the comments in the first paragraph above, but I feel a bit of context is needed here.

 

Going home & visiting the family on winter break?    No issue whatsoever when worded that way.    But given the impression that Sano would be in one spot (back at camp early next week) only to be somewhere else for an 'extended' period (visiting family in the DR for two weeks) is a bit of a red flag, especially if the communication / expectation between player & team was in question.

 

'Switching agencies'- wording, again- not an issue on its face.    But teams are well within their rights to have concerns about their players' lifestyle choices and who they run with away off the field.    I think it's a bit naïve to think an organization wouldn't have any concerns about potential distractions stemming from one of their players aligning with one of the most powerful, influential men on the music scene.   

 

I find zero fault with this article at all.    Reusse knows a thing or two about baseball and had quotes from the manager.  I read at as a measuring stick for where Miguel Sano is at in his career right now.  He's 22 years old, far from being at a fork in the road career-wise.   Plenty of time to figure it out.    I, for one, am glad to learn the Twins have their 'thumb on the pulse' here.    Much rather read this column now than read the indictment about how Sano's 'lack of professionalism' has us asking 'What might have been' ten years from now.    

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Herbie was a great talent who could've had a great career. Instead, mainly due to his inability/unwillingness to stay in shape, he merely had a good one.

I don't like that line of reasoning.

 

In his age 22 rookie season, Hrbek played 140 games with a 128 OPS+.

 

Over the next 9 seasons, he averaged 141 games played with a 133 OPS+.  Then his career petered out a bit from ages 32-34 and he retired.

 

Not everybody improves in a predictable linear fashion throughout their career.  The idea that with more exercise, Hrbek could have been a 150 OPS+ hitter at his peak, or a 162 games played kind of guy, that's just not supportable by any facts or reasoning.  Heck, Hrbek did play 158 games one year, and posted his lowest full season OPS+ until his retirement year.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I am always vexed by athletes who do not stay in good- nay, extremely good shape. I'm talking Dozier, Buxton, Berrios good shape. But at the end of the day it is their job to lose. Sano knows as well as anyone how hungry every minor league player is to get to the Show, he knows those kids are hitting the stationary bike and the weights to gain an advantage and one day he could be the guy who gets replaced. If that doesn't motivate him, nothing will.

I generally get this, but for elite talents at seeing and hitting a pitch (or throwing a wicked pitch, if we're talking pitchers), those talents aren't correlated much with physical fitness.  Sure, it can help you stay on the field, but so can knowing your limits and not exerting yourself when you don't have to.  Sano is not in any real danger of being replaced by hungry minor league players.  Obviously the equation changes if we're talking about a lesser natural hitting talent (or if we go beyond physical fitness and add substance abuse to the equation, although some talents have even survived that).

 

It's like actors.  Plenty of actors stay in great shape, it's a good way to land some roles, but plenty of great ones don't give a darn about their shape and still get plenty of roles and do a fantastic job.  I'm not vexed by a star baseball slugger or pitcher having a beer gut any more than I was about Philip Seymour Hoffman's (may he rest in peace).

 

Down the spectrum, someone like Arcia who is young with low career earnings, yeah I would be vexed if he didn't stay in shape.  But he apparently did this winter, and probably wasn't ever in too bad of shape relative to his peers to begin with.

[bird]

 

I don't like that line of reasoning.

 

In his age 22 rookie season, Hrbek played 140 games with a 128 OPS+.

 

Over the next 9 seasons, he averaged 141 games played with a 133 OPS+.  Then his career petered out a bit from ages 32-34 and he retired.

 

Not everybody improves in a predictable linear fashion throughout their career.  The idea that with more exercise, Hrbek could have been a 150 OPS+ hitter at his peak, or a 162 games played kind of guy, that's just not supportable by any facts or reasoning.  Heck, Hrbek did play 158 games one year, and posted his lowest full season OPS+ until his retirement year.

 

 

Don't you think it's entirely reasonable to suspect that, had Hrbek taken care of his body via diet and exercise, etc., that he could have extended his playing career instead of having it peter out like it did? I'm sure there were some people in the organization who behind the scenes wished Hrbek's "priorities" involved a greater devotion to his health and fitness. And I recall comments from fans about Hrbek's weight, just like we've been hearing comments from fans about Sano, with the main difference being perhaps the frequency and tenor of both critical and defensive comments. Social media in action. 

 

I kinda feel the same way about what I'm seeing with Sano that I felt with tons of past Twins, including Hrbek. My thought is, gee, wouldn't it be great if he did everything possible to live up to his full potential? It hardly reaches the level of criticism to think this, so I'm not sure we're really seeing a lot of Sano-bashing going on here as opposed to merely intense observation and scrutiny of a future star in the making who has captured our imaginations like no Twin before him.

[jimbo92107]

Swimming lessons. You want him stronger, lighter, but minimum impact on his body, get him to start doing laps in an Olympic pool on a regular basis. Never seen a serious swimmer with an ounce of extra fat, and there's no pounding on the feet with swimming. 

[ken]

 

I don't like that line of reasoning.

 

In his age 22 rookie season, Hrbek played 140 games with a 128 OPS+.

 

Over the next 9 seasons, he averaged 141 games played with a 133 OPS+.  Then his career petered out a bit from ages 32-34 and he retired.

 

Not everybody improves in a predictable linear fashion throughout their career.  The idea that with more exercise, Hrbek could have been a 150 OPS+ hitter at his peak, or a 162 games played kind of guy, that's just not supportable by any facts or reasoning.  Heck, Hrbek did play 158 games one year, and posted his lowest full season OPS+ until his retirement year.

I think the steroid era might be supportive of maintaining peak health and strength will increase production and increase the length of a players career.

 

There is no guareentee, but I think it's pretty reasonable that being in better shape is helpful in an athletic career.

[DaveW]

 

Don't you think it's entirely reasonable to suspect that, had Hrbek taken care of his body via diet and exercise, etc., that he could have extended his playing career instead of having it peter out like it did? I'm sure there were some people in the organization who behind the scenes wished Hrbek's "priorities" involved a greater devotion to his health and fitness. And I recall comments from fans about Hrbek's weight, just like we've been hearing comments from fans about Sano, with the main difference being perhaps the frequency and tenor of both critical and defensive comments. Social media in action. 

Hrbek was a HUGE reason why the Twins won two world series, frankly I am quite satisfied with his career and career choices. I'm sure David Ortiz could have been in better shape as well, but I am pretty sure Red Sox fans are pretty happy with the career he has put forth for them.

[Loosey]

What Reusse wrote is true.  It's not scathing or anything.  But, in perfect world Sano would have been working out everyday, eating, drinking and sleeping baseball.  But he didn't.  He is a 22 year old kid.  When I was 22 I was an idiot.  I didn't think I was, but looking back I was.

 

There was an article in ESPN the other day about LeBron and Curry and other NBA players.  It asked who are their actual #1 employers.  Is it the team they play for, or is it the shoe company they endorse which actually pays them a much greater amount than their team does?

 

Similar for Sano right now and Roc Nation in my opinion.  Right now Sano is making decent money from the Twins, but Roc Nation is working to get him BIG $$$$$ from other areas outside of baseball, endorsements, autographs, etc.  Which explains why he would leave non-mandatory stuff to go to NY for a paying autograph gig.  And why not go home to hang with family and friends.  He won't be able to get back there until hopefully late October.

 

Hopefully, he does decide to get focused more on baseball during the season (which I'm sure he will).  But even if he does something non-baseball oriented on non-game days I am fine with that.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Don't you think it's entirely reasonable to suspect that, had Hrbek taken care of his body via diet and exercise, etc., that he could have extended his playing career instead of having it peter out like it did? I'm sure there were some people in the organization who behind the scenes wished Hrbek's "priorities" involved a greater devotion to his health and fitness. And I recall comments from fans about Hrbek's weight, just like we've been hearing comments from fans about Sano, with the main difference being perhaps the frequency and tenor of both critical and defensive comments. Social media in action. 

Sure, it's possible.  Of course, there are also players who keep themselves in great shape whose careers peter out from ages 32-34.  And Hrbek actually retired before his career petered out very far, which suggests that he could have extended his career even in his physically diminished state but chose not to, which further suggests his desire and motivation to keep playing were probably bigger factors for him (and those some factors probably influenced his decisions not to stay in better playing shape).

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Also shaming Sano for going home for couple weeks in the off-season is so freaking cheap. He isn't obligated to show up weeks early for spring training, why is he crapped on for going home and visiting family and friends?

Did you read the article?

 

It states that that wasn't the issue. The issue was that Reusse "heard a Twins official say in an MLB Network interview that Sano was in Fort Myers, working every day on right field skills, while he was in the Dominican hanging with buddies."

 

That might bug the organization a little. Maybe. I don't know. It's not LOL funny though.

[ScrapTheNickname]

 

Herbie was a great talent who could've had a great career. Instead, mainly due to his inability/unwillingness to stay in shape, he merely had a good one.

 

I just hope Sano doesn't end up the same way.

I believe that is a reasonable hope.

[nicksaviking]

Just out of curiosity......why does he need to change anything if it isn't hurting his ability to produce on the field?

 

I wouldn't say he would have to. What I would say however is that he may not be the best person to have a read on the situation since we tell ourselves all kinds of lies to remain in our comfort zone.

 

The motivation to get in shape can come from many sources though, internal or external. If he does need to work on this, I'm feeling pretty confident that something will trigger his motivation, even if it's initially induced by a negative reaction.

[h2oface]

 

FWIW, Reusse has made the less delicate statement on his radio show that he believes Sano is basically broke because of his "family and friends" mooching off his bonus. So now he's doing things like switching agencies and attending autograph shows to make more money. Reusse suggested the Twins give him frequent weight clause bonuses instead.

 

This is a great idea........ make them accumulative, too. Like: if he meets 5 of the check-ins in a row he gets an additional $500,000 bonus. Give him some real incentives. Keep him focusing on the field and not off the field. Great idea.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Maybe somebody hacked Reusse's account?

Sorry, that was me. Only took two guesses at his password before I successfully landed with "getoffmylawn".

[h2oface]

Berrios works out, Sano doesn't. Two young men with different focus. The Babe didn't work out much either. It sure can't hurt to spend the time. Michael Jordan was never one to skimp, even with all that talent. Time spent with family for a couple of weeks before his job by contract starts may be the most important thing a 22 year old can do. Moving this man to right field is still the big story. I will reserve judgement and let Sano show what he can do this year before I get sucked into a "View" type of argument.

[KGB]

 

Hrbek was a HUGE reason why the Twins won two world series, frankly I am quite satisfied with his career and career choices. I'm sure David Ortiz could have been in better shape as well, but I am pretty sure Red Sox fans are pretty happy with the career he has put forth for them.

I'm assuming you are not using HUGE in reference to his playoff contributions

 

ALCS   .146/.222/.220

WS      .160/.276/.300

 

I'm sure referring to another Ruesse column will not help, but even Big Papi found out you need to take care of yourself.

 

http://www.startribune.com/at-40-and-near-retirement-big-papi-ortiz-looks-back-on-career/372810781/

 

FORT MYERS, FLA. – David Ortiz was having lunch at a table outside the Boston Red Sox spring training clubhouse. It was a paper plate dominated by avocado, with white rice and a few small pieces of chicken.

“One year, when I was 34 or so, I was 20 [pounds] over, and I got on this diet,” Ortiz said. “I take care of myself. I have to do it.

[Linus]

I would like to point out that this has nothing to do with The Twins Way. There is one quote from Molitor that is quite measured and purposely restrained. This is Reusse's article and shouldn't be directly connected to the Twins stance on Sano.

[Mike Sixel]

 

From where I'm sitting:

 

Moving to the outfield may or may not hurt his ability to produce. The collective reaction: "OMG, this front office is so stupid!"

 

Gaining 50 pounds over the last few years and not making an effort to stay in shape may or may not hurt his ability to produce. The collective reaction: "OMG, people just need to stop picking on Sano. This is more 'Twins Way' stuff like what happened with Ortiz!"

 

Let's get some consistency here, please. I think it's absolutely fair to criticize his work ethic because work ethic matters. Yes, he should get a chance to prove Reusse wrong. But come on now.

 

I didn't comment on the effect on SANO at all. I was responding to all the people up thread that said it wasn't about his on the field production. 

 

I'm not sure how to make that more clear at this point. I would have to actually offer an opinion, not ask a question, for there to be some inconsistency in my opinions.

 

FWIW, I think not being in the best shape he can be is a bad career decision, on the field. But, that wasn't at all what my post was about. Not even a tiny bit. 

[savvyspy]

I think making one of the worst front office decisions I've ever seen in my 40 years of watching baseball about Sano's fitness is one of the most asinine things I've seen written by the Minnesota sports media EVER.

 

Its really this simple:

 

NO ONE HAS EVER PLAYED OUTFIELD AT 270lbs WELL. EVER!!!

 

And no front office has ever been as dumb as to attempt it with a guy that literally NEVER played the position before.

 

Any GM, media member, or anyone trying to justify this move is banking solely on one thing, hope. Every piece of available data would tell you this is going to be a disaster. Anyone who believes otherwise is banking on hope. Nothing more.

 

Reusse should be ashamed of himself. Not for writing the piece but for giving Terry Ryan a free pass in this fiasco. 

[KGB]

 

 

Its really this simple:

 

NO ONE HAS EVER PLAYED OUTFIELD AT 270lbs WELL. EVER!!!

 

I think you are missing the point, he doesn't have to be 270.

 

He knew at the end of last year he was going to the outfield and the front office asked him to lose weight. But he showed up at camp weighing more than last spring training.

 

According to my doctor, when I gain weight, it has mostly to do with what I eat and how I exercise then blaming someone else.  Even though it's clearly my wife's fault.

 

[Major League Ready]

 

All the effort in the world wouldn't have kept Sano at shortstop.

No.  He was never going to be a SS but can anyone possibly think he would not be better defensively if he were slimmed down just a bit.  Can anyone argue that a two-way player is more valuable to the team.  Can anyone argue that he would increase his earning potential by being a two-way player.

 

There are countless examples of 22 y/o or younger players making a big-time commitment to conditioning.   The Twins made a public statement that they had met with Sano and his representation and they had agreed to an off-season program.  Sano is not fat by any means but only losing 5 pounds would suggest he did not make an effort.  Klove and Shabazz lost 20+ pounds and I think it would be a safe bet that their body fat was lower than Sano's when they started their programs.  Sano getting to the same body fat percentage would probably require him to lose 40 lbs. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

Are we really complaining about a 22 year old player that OPSed over .900 in his rookie season and looks like this?

http://a.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/RSN/North/2015/08/12/NO6-PI-MLB-Minnesota-Twins-Miguel-Sano-HR-081215.vresize.1200.675.high.98.jpgJesus Christo, people.

[bird]

 

Hrbek was a HUGE reason why the Twins won two world series, frankly I am quite satisfied with his career and career choices. I'm sure David Ortiz could have been in better shape as well, but I am pretty sure Red Sox fans are pretty happy with the career he has put forth for them.

 

 

But this completely misses the point. Why is it so difficult to accept simple observations like the ones being offered about Sano without irrationally trashing the observers? Look, Sano came to spring training heavier than last year. He had an opportunity to devote more time to his craft than he did. This caught the attention of those around him. The thoughts are almost exclusively focused on the matter of Sano optimizing his potential, mostly now but also down the line. I haven't seen one criticism about what Sano produced in 2015, and yet you keep bringing it up as if it's relevant to what Reusse and pretty much everyone else is talking about, and it isn't, Dave. 

[bird]

 

Let me get this straight:  Is Reusse really calling Sano "fat"? 

 

If you read the article carefully, you'll see that he did not call Sano fat.

[TRex]

 

Let me get this straight:  Is Reusse really calling Sano "fat"? 

Are you trying to jerk my chain, or is it just an added bonus...

 

Reusse's first words about Sano are:

 

First of all, Miguel Sano is not fat (nor was Killebrew). He is 6-foot-4 and massive across his shoulders and in his legs.

 

Is everyone else reading a different story than I am? The only new material in this article (and I think it is the only reason for it) is the following statement:

 

I was here for 2½ weeks in early February and was at the ballpark most days to do a radio show. Sano was doing low-key drills with early arrivers for a couple of days, and then he was gone.

The word was he had gone to New York for a weekend for a well-paid autograph gig, and he would be back early the next week. He wound up going back to the Dominican Republic and stayed for two weeks, until camp was ready to open.

Big deal?

No. It’s merely that I heard a Twins official say in an MLB Network interview that Sano was in Fort Myers, working every day on right field skills, while he was in the Dominican hanging with buddies.

 

It is not a comment on Sano's size or weight. It is a comment on his commitment to his team and his job. You can be mad at Molitor for not running him out to RF for every spring-training game but, IMHO, the time for him to be learning RF was the two weeks leading up to the start of games.

 

[bird]

 

Are we really complaining about a 22 year old player that OPSed over .900 in his rookie season and looks like this?

http://a.fssta.com/content/dam/fsdigital/RSN/North/2015/08/12/NO6-PI-MLB-Minnesota-Twins-Miguel-Sano-HR-081215.vresize.1200.675.high.98.jpgJesus Christo, people.

 

I don't think most people are complaining about his OPS at all. I would submit that most of the concern on the part of the Twins has a lot more to do with their perception about his level of dedication to learning and practicing his new position, and not about his weight, or concerns about his offensive production.

[Thrylos]

 

If you read the article carefully, you'll see that he did not call Sano fat.

 

"Right now, Miguel Sano is far from the long-awaited, second coming of the Fat Kid. He’s simply the Big Kid, until he begins to take his shot at greatness more seriously."

[Thrylos]

 

 

 IMHO, the time for him to be learning RF was the two weeks leading up to the start of games.

 

So you think that he can learn RF in batting practice?  or by someone tossing tennis balls? 

 

I'd love to find out that Right Field For Dummies book that promises to teach RF to someone who never played it before in 2 weeks...   Must be one out there.

 

The Twins dropped the ball here by not trading (or moving to RF) Plouffe.  Period.

 

And nobody can whine about Sano's dedication.  He spoke enough on the field, unlike some other Twins' players who came out of shape and played horribly in the Spring.  I'd love to hear about Perkins' dedication, weight and 90 mph fastball for example or Buxton's dedication to hitting or laying off the curveball.  Where are the articles blaming Buxton for not spending enough time learning to hit the curveball in 2 weeks?