Article: Trevor May Headed To The Bullpen

[nicksaviking]

 

 

70 innings of Burdi/Chargois for the 2016 Twins would most likely be a disaster.  Chargois has 64 professional innings total, 33 above A ball.  Burdi is probably a better bet to be ready at some point this year or next, but certainly can't be considered a sure thing in April, 2016.

 

In fact, were the Twins counting on either of them for prominent bullpen roles to begin 2016, THAT would be something to complain about.  Loudly.    

 

You wouldn't get any complaints from me, and using the young hard throwers was something that Ryan mentioned many times this off season as a possibility. I want corner-picking, meatball-slinging, contact-making, 92 MPH relievers no more.

 

These are relief pitchers, they need two pitches and velocity, they don't need to be finished products. Bring them up and let them work out their kinks if they have any. Even if they bomb, it's not like the other options don't have a high likelihood of disaster. At least there is potential here with the youth.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

May was in the process of being the top starter for the team in June. He had two rough starts, one in April and one in May, but he finally found his control and was the only guy in the rotation that could strand a runner at 3rd with nobody out. He was on a roll and showing the potential that everyone had been hoping to see.

Generally agreed, although note his roughest start was June 26.

[Loosey]

I'm ok with it yet not ok with it at the same time if that makes any sense.  As things stand now I believe he is one of the top 5 starters on the team.  He is better than Milone and Nolasco.  HOWEVER, he is also probably much better out of the bullpen than either of those two.  So which makes the team better?  May in the rotation and Milone/Nolasco pitching 4 times a week in setup?  I think May to the pen makes the team better based on how the roster is currently constructed.

 

The part I'm not OK with is they could have avoided this completely if they would have gone and got a viable late inning arm in free agency.  Then Milone and Nolasco and May could have had a true competition for a spot. 

[TheLeviathan]

 

Just look at the stats for his first 25 starts. If he couldn't pitch out of the pen, he may not have even made the team. Anyway we can stop overrating board favorites?

 

Do you toss everyone out for their stats the first go around in the big leagues?  Watch out Byron Buxton.....

 

The freaking kid had 25 starts under his belt and was starting to show EXACTLY what you want from a young starter when we flipped him to the bullpen.  It's patently absurd to argue that May's move to the pen had anything to do with his inability to be a starter.  It had much more to do with the team's inability to field a competent bullpen and overspending on mid-tier FA starters.

 

We should be investing in players like Trevor May for the future of this rotation, not using his talents to put a band-aid on roster blunders.

[howieramone2]

 

Do you toss everyone out for their stats the first go around in the big leagues?  Watch out Byron Buxton.....

 

The freaking kid had 25 starts under his belt and was starting to show EXACTLY what you want from a young starter when we flipped him to the bullpen.  It's patently absurd to argue that May's move to the pen had anything to do with his inability to be a starter.  It had much more to do with the team's inability to field a competent bullpen and overspending on mid-tier FA starters.

 

We should be investing in players like Trevor May for the future of this rotation, not using his talents to put a band-aid on roster blunders.

It's patently absurd for you to accuse me of saying that. Could you be more specific on which roster blunders you are speaking of?

Edited March 17, 2016 by howieramone2

[Winston Smith]

 

Is anybody really surprised? If you raise your hand I have some beachfront land in Alaska to sell you.....

 

Can you see Russia from this property?

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

It's patently absurd for you to accuse me of saying that. Could you be more specific on which roster blunders you are speaking of?

 

That we did nothing via trade or free agency to bolster the bullpen and that we loaded our rotation with a number of overpriced FA signings.

 

So now we move arguably the 2nd or 3rd best starter in the rotation out to the bullpen to compensate.

[blairpaul715]

 

Cueto, Ventura, Volquez = Santana, Gibson, Hughes? I'll take that Royals 3... 

 

Kansas City also had an elite defense, the Twins are forcing Sano to RF

The question was about pitching , with that said, Volquez has been a 3-5 his whole career and one team in 2013 thought so little of him he was DFA'd...........Ventura does have 2 upside,but he pitched like a 3 last yr, and Cueto pitch 81 innings with a 4-7, 4.76, 56 K's and a .307 BA against, not exactly ace time with KC.

 

Santana 7-5, 4.00, 108 IP , 36 W, 82 K, .253 BAA, 1.30 WHIP

vs

Cueto    4-7, 4.76, 81 IP,   17 W, 56 K, .307 BAA, 1.45 WHIP

 

Gibson   11-11, 3.84, 195 IP, 65 W, 145 K, .252 BAA, 1.29 WHIP

vs

Volquez  13-9, 3.55, 200 IP, 72 W, 155 K, .251 BAA, 1.31 WHIP

 

Hughes  11-9, 4.40, 155 IP, 16 W, 94 K, .293 BAA, 1.29 WHIP

vs

Ventura 13-8, 4.08, 163 IP, 58 W, 156 K, .248 BAA, 1.30 WHIP

 

Pretty much a wash 3 on 3...............and yes KC does have a better pen,and defense, and offense,but that wasnt what I was stating, I was stating they didnt have an ace and still won a World Series.

[bluechipper]

 

70 innings of Burdi/Chargois for the 2016 Twins would most likely be a disaster.  Chargois has 64 professional innings total, 33 above A ball.  Burdi is probably a better bet to be ready at some point this year or next, but certainly can't be considered a sure thing in April, 2016.

 

In fact, were the Twins counting on either of them for prominent bullpen roles to begin 2016, THAT would be something to complain about.  Loudly.    

Roberto Osuna was closing out games as a 20 year old for the AL East champs last year, and he never pitched above high-A. I wouldn't be too worried about counting on Chargois and Burdi this year.

[alarp33]

 

The question was about pitching , with that said, Volquez has been a 3-5 his whole career and one team in 2013 thought so little of him he was DFA'd...........Ventura does have 2 upside,but he pitched like a 3 last yr, and Cueto pitch 81 innings with a 4-7, 4.76, 56 K's and a .307 BA against, not exactly ace time with KC.

 

Santana 7-5, 4.00, 108 IP , 36 W, 82 K, .253 BAA, 1.30 WHIP

vs

Cueto    4-7, 4.76, 81 IP,   17 W, 56 K, .307 BAA, 1.45 WHIP

 

Gibson   11-11, 3.84, 195 IP, 65 W, 145 K, .252 BAA, 1.29 WHIP

vs

Volquez  13-9, 3.55, 200 IP, 72 W, 155 K, .251 BAA, 1.31 WHIP

 

Hughes  11-9, 4.40, 155 IP, 16 W, 94 K, .293 BAA, 1.29 WHIP

vs

Ventura 13-8, 4.08, 163 IP, 58 W, 156 K, .248 BAA, 1.30 WHIP

 

Pretty much a wash 3 on 3...............and yes KC does have a better pen,and defense, and offense,but that wasnt what I was stating, I was stating they didnt have an ace and still won a World Series.

 

If you are saying with a Starting rotation like KC you can win the World Series, you can't ignore with that rotation they coupled an elite defense. That matters.

Maybe it would better to say, you can win the World Series without elite starting pitching if you get timely hitting, elite defense, elite bullpen, etc. 

 

Picking out Cueto's KC only stats is pretty convenient, but you said they did it with a bunch of 3-5's.  He's not a 3-5.  Ventura isn't either

Edited March 17, 2016 by alarp33

[Squirrel]

 

It could be if you think it will influence his decision to stay, or not, in a few years, yes.

In a few years ... a lot of time between now and then, so, yes, I agree with Chief on this. 

[DJL44]

May hasn't been good this spring. He lost the competition to make the rotation. It was either AAA or the bullpen.

[bluechipper]

 

Well the Twins are collectively screwing themselves and Trevor by doing this.  Just so they don't piss off Nolasco and Milone both of whom are inferior talent in comparison.  

 

They are holding May back and when he approaches free agency he'll remember this and will leave the Twins for another franchise that will allow him to be a starter and whom actually cares about winning over money and washed up egos.

 

Simple as that and i wouldn't blame him one bit if he holds a grudge from this happening two years in a row.  See ya jerks.

Milone has shown enough that he deserves to have a shot to start the season in the rotation. Nolasco still has a good chance of being the long guy in the bullpen, so I don't think I would be upset about that part yet.

 

As for May, he seems like a good guy who gets it. I'm sure he has all the confidence in himself that he's better than those guys as a starter, but he also sees the value he can bring in the bullpen, and he'll just have to wait his turn to start.

[blairpaul715]

 

If you are saying with a Starting rotation like KC you can win the World Series, you can't ignore with that rotation they coupled an elite defense. That matters.

Maybe it would better to say, you can win the World Series without elite starting pitching if you get timely hitting, elite defense, elite bullpen, etc. 

 

Picking out Cueto's KC only stats is pretty convenient, but you said they did it with a bunch of 3-5's.  He's not a 3-5.  Ventura isn't either

I partly agree, lets take Hughes for example, in 2014 he pitched like a 2, but in reality he is a 3-4, and Ventura was a 3 in 2015, will he take a leap forward this yr? We will find out.........Now the reverse Cueto is a 1-2, but KC he pitched like a 4.............so last yrs stats wise of the 6 guys you mention it was a wash, its not like one set played better than the other, that is all I was saying or trying to convey, because over the long haul I would take Cueto over them all, not sure about Ventura, might depend on his makeup.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

May hasn't been good this spring. He lost the competition to make the rotation. It was either AAA or the bullpen.

May lost a competition with Nolasco this spring?  Really?  He's lost to Duffey so far too?

[COtwin]

Here's my two cents.  I think May is a good reliever, but I think his ceiling as a starter is higher than guys like Nolasco and Milone.  I am OK with him in the pen, but if the FO is making a judgement on him from the small sample sizes he has had as a starter, that is frustrating.  He still has not had a whole year to be in the rotation and learn how to work through his "issues" as they come up.  A lot of guys take a year or two, and we haven't given him any sort of long term chance.  I think Milone is a solide 4, probably 5.  

My issue with all of this is if Nolasco stays up without absolutely earning his spot.  It sets a very bad precedent to send a kid to the pen, who might be part of the future rotation if he can learn his craft, for a guy who is not a team player and is holding a gun to the FO's collective heads.  We are still in a rebuild.  May needs to work through his kinks now, because he will never get the chance if we are in a playoff race.  

If Nolasco ends up throwing a fit and refusing assignments, then I would let that go very public.  He will only be burning any chances he has to earn and be part of a quality club in the future.  

Edited March 17, 2016 by COtwin

[laloesch]

 

Just look at the stats for his first 25 starts. If he couldn't pitch out of the pen, he may not have even made the team. Anyway we can stop overrating board favorites?

 

You mean Joe Mauer?

[tobi0040]

 

May lost a competition with Nolasco this spring?  Really?  He's lost to Duffey so far too?

 

May had the same odds to make the rotation as Mauer had to be cut

[DJL44]

 

May lost a competition with Nolasco this spring?  Really?  He's lost to Duffey so far too?

 

I'm not convinced Nolasco has won anything yet but May was bouncing changeups. The coaches are pleased with Duffey so far and he's pretty much got the #4 slot locked up. It is down to Milone v Nolasco for the 5th starter with the loser becoming the long reliever. We all know Berrios is going to start the season in AAA unless two pitchers get hurt in the next two weeks.

[tobi0040]

 

I don't care about money for either Berrios or May, all I care about is controlling a good asset for as long as they are useful. Keeping Berrios in the minors an extra couple of weeks and keeping May a starter would seem like the best way to keep them from bolting early.

 

As for the baseball reasons, I'd rather have 180 innings of May and 70 of Burdi/Chargois than 180 innings of Nolasco/Milone and 70 innings of May. Much rather.

 

I want to point out that we could have easily not tendered Milone and allocated that $4m to a reliever and accomplished this.  May in the rotation and a FA reliever.

[laloesch]

 

Here's my two cents.  I think May is a good reliever, but I think his ceiling as a starter is higher than guys like Nolasco and Milone.  I am OK with him in the pen, but if the FO is making a judgement on him from the small sample sizes he has had as a starter, that is frustrating.  He still has not had a whole year to be in the rotation and learn how to work through his "issues" as they come up.  A lot of guys take a year or two, and we haven't given him any sort of long term chance.  I think Milone is a solide 4, probably 5.  

My issue with all of this is if Nolasco stays up without absolutely earning his spot.  It sets a very bad precedent to send a kid to the pen, who might be part of the future rotation if he can learn his craft, for a guy who is not a team player and is holding a gun to the FO's collective heads.  We are still in a rebuild.  May needs to work through his kinks now, because he will never get the chance if we are in a playoff race.  

If Nolasco ends up throwing a fit and refusing assignments, then I would let that go very public.  He will only be burning any chances he has to earn and be part of a quality club in the future.  

 

My concern is Duffey and Nolasco.  I'm a bit suprised that they made this decision so quickly given how badly Duffey and Nolasco have pitched so far.  

 

Don't think for a second too that if Duffey gets off to a slow start that he won't be demoted in favor of Nolasco regardless of how badly he pitches because of the albatross contract.  And like i said before.  Milone is a 4th or 5th starter tops and we saw that against better competition last season.

 

I don't buy the argument that the Twins saw how the bullpen was shaping up and pulled the panic lever (demoting May to the pen), because of how things were shaping up down there.  I just don't.  Runzler, Abad, Chargois, Kintzler, O'Rourke, Burdi and Reed have all pitched well so far.  A far cry from a desperation situation in the pen.

 

The Twins are throwing up smoke and mirrors again.  There never was or has been an open competition for rotation spots.     

Edited March 17, 2016 by laloesch

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I'm not convinced Nolasco has won anything yet but May was bouncing changeups. The coaches are pleased with Duffey so far and he's pretty much got the #4 slot locked up. It is down to Milone v Nolasco for the 5th starter with the loser becoming the long reliever.

You said May lost the competition.  That presumably means you think he was bested by Nolasco in said competition, with two weeks to spare, even if Nolasco isn't the ultimate winner.  If they simply wanted to narrow it to two starters at this point, why couldn't it be down to May vs. Milone instead?

 

I don't see how you can ignore the obvious factors other than spring performance (contracts and past usage) that influenced this move.

[tobi0040]

I think the Twins think that May can start the same way they thought Sano could play 3B.  Just enough to let the guy down slowly over a three year period.

[Platoon]

 

Only from Sarah Palins deck!

[DJL44]

 

If they simply wanted to narrow it to two starters at this point, why couldn't it be down to May vs. Milone instead?

 

 

They could have, but if May lost the competition in 2 weeks he would be headed to AAA to start rather than going to the bullpen. I could live with telling Nolasco right now he's headed to the bullpen. I think that may be the only way to salvage some value from Ricky Nolasco.

[alarp33]

 

They could have, but if May lost the competition in 2 weeks he would be headed to AAA to start rather than going to the bullpen. I could live with telling Nolasco right now he's headed to the bullpen. I think that may be the only way to salvage some value from Ricky Nolasco.

 

Why would he be headed to AAA?

[Mike Sixel]

 

Why would he be headed to AAA?

 

To start, and be ready to start if/when someone fails or is hurt......if he was planned as a starter, that is what would happen, methinks.

[alarp33]

 

To start, and be ready to start if/when someone fails or is hurt......if he was planned as a starter, that is what would happen, methinks.

 

I think the question was; was he given an actual chance to be one of the 5 starters. The answer was no. I don't see why he couldn't have been given a real shot, and then moved to the pen if he "lost"

Edited March 17, 2016 by alarp33

[h2oface]

 

The question was about pitching ...............

Pretty much a wash 3 on 3...............and yes KC does have a better pen,and defense, and offense,but that wasnt what I was stating, I was stating they didnt have an ace and still won a World Series.

 

I think the original question was about considering a starting staff full of 3-5's "pretty good". 

 

I also think think that that KC's bullpen (and defense and offense) was far more the reason they could win a World Series than the starting staff. The Twins' didn't even try to step up the pen..... one might even say they made "a-bad" addition to try to get there.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think the question was; was he given an actual chance to be one of the 5 starters. The answer was no. I don't see why he couldn't have been given a real shot, and then moved to the pen if he "lost"

 

Well, that's certainly possible.......but does anyone think they see him as a starter this year, or does moving to the pen make it even more obvious they don't*

 

*unless they want to repeat last year's fiasco.