Would you take a chance on Cliff Lee?

[cmoss84]

I know we already have too many starters. I know that we need bullpen help. I know that Cliff Lee hasn't pitched for a long time. That being said, would you give him $5 million guaranteed for 1 year? It seems to me it would be worth the risk. He could also help mentor the young guys, ala KG/Andre Miller. It would also allow Gibson and Berrios to be really good 4/5 starters. You're looking at 5 starters who will chew up a lot of innings (potentially)...which means the bullpen will be (hopefully) less used.

 

Hughes

Santana

Lee

Gibson

Berrios

 

Perkins/Jepsen/May late innings. Obviously the main 3. We still need a quality lefty.

 

Nolasco/Milone/Duffey would have to be in the pen too unless we could deal them. Feel free to rip away...

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd definitely want to be in the mix for Cliff Lee, and if a MLB deal for a few guaranteed million is what it takes to separate us from the pack, I'd do that too.  We've got a lot of starters, but not a ton of upside (at least not Cliff Lee upside), and there is plenty of potential for trades or deploying in relief.

 

And if Lee comes back successfully, it's not just a one-year deal -- with a qualifying offer, you'd essentially get a ~$15 mil option or draft pick in 2017.

[DocBauer]

On the surface, the easy answer is yes. Looking a little deeper though, I'm not so sure. Berrios probably begins in the minors, Duffey probably in the rotation, and May in the bullpen...unless he starts before moving to the pen when Berrios comes up. In the Lee scenario, there probably isn't room for any of these talented youngsters. At least initially. And I think that would be a mistake.

[Shaitan]

In a heartbeat on a non-guaranteed deal. He hasn't pitched in 2 years, so no way on any guaranteed money.

 

Unless he'd also be willing to pitch relief, which could make it interesting. Who knows what he has left in the tank, but he could at least be a LOOGY if he's willing.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

In a heartbeat on a non-guaranteed deal. He hasn't pitched in 2 years, so no way on any guaranteed money.

Cliff Lee did pitch in 2014, and pretty darn well before finally succumbing to injuries in August.

[Vanimal46]

Hard pass. I desperately wanted him 6 years ago when he was available at the trade deadline. Not so much these days when he hasn't pitched in a year and a half. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

On the surface, the easy answer is yes. Looking a little deeper though, I'm not so sure. Berrios probably begins in the minors, Duffey probably in the rotation, and May in the bullpen...unless he starts before moving to the pen when Berrios comes up. In the Lee scenario, there probably isn't room for any of these talented youngsters. At least initially. And I think that would be a mistake.

How is there no room for either Duffey or May, with one speculative addition in Lee?  Whichever one he keeps from starting can go to the pen, and heck May might already be ticketed for the pen regardless.

 

I'm guessing they promised Hughes he would start if healthy, but that's another guy I'd be willing to deploy in our pen if we prove to have too many good starters and haven't yet swung a trade.  Gibson could probably be traded for good value too if that comes to pass.

 

Face it, our pen is weak enough, and we've added nothing to it yet this winter, it can still absorb a lot if we have rotation overflow.  If we're not going to aggressively try to fix the pen directly, at least try to aggressively fix it indirectly.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

How is there no room for either Duffey or May, with one speculative addition in Lee?  Whichever one he keeps from starting can go to the pen, and heck May might already be ticketed for the pen regardless.

 

I'm guessing they promised Hughes he would start if healthy, but that's another guy I'd be willing to deploy in our pen if we prove to have too many good starters and haven't yet swung a trade.  Gibson could probably be traded for good value too if that comes to pass.

 

Face it, our pen is weak enough, and we've added nothing to it yet this winter, it can still absorb a lot if we have rotation overflow.  If we're not going to aggressively try to fix the pen directly, at least try to aggressively fix it indirectly.

A flyer on Lee would be an interesting bullpen "fix". I never considered approaching it from that direction.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

A flyer on Lee would be an interesting bullpen "fix". I never considered approaching it from that direction.

I probably wouldn't have either, if we had actually acquired some real relievers by now.

[Oldgoat_MN]

 

I'd definitely want to be in the mix for Cliff Lee, and if a MLB deal for a few guaranteed million is what it takes to separate us from the pack, I'd do that too.  We've got a lot of starters, but not a ton of upside (at least not Cliff Lee upside), and there is plenty of potential for trades or deploying in relief.

 

And if Lee comes back successfully, it's not just a one-year deal -- with a qualifying offer, you'd essentially get a ~$15 mil option or draft pick in 2017.

 

I agree with Brock. As he pitched 81 innings in 2014 he is probably in no shape to pitch 200+ innings in 2015. Starting him in the pen until he gets stronger and then seeing where we are at sounds interesting.

 

Gotta believe we aren't the only fanbase thinking along these lines.

 

Or maybe spycake is just really unique.

[sane09]

I'd rather jump off of a cliff Lee.

[DocBauer]

 

How is there no room for either Duffey or May, with one speculative addition in Lee?  Whichever one he keeps from starting can go to the pen, and heck May might already be ticketed for the pen regardless.

 

I'm guessing they promised Hughes he would start if healthy, but that's another guy I'd be willing to deploy in our pen if we prove to have too many good starters and haven't yet swung a trade.  Gibson could probably be traded for good value too if that comes to pass.

 

Face it, our pen is weak enough, and we've added nothing to it yet this winter, it can still absorb a lot if we have rotation overflow.  If we're not going to aggressively try to fix the pen directly, at least try to aggressively fix it indirectly.

Again, based on the scenario as presented. There is only room for Berrios as presented. One assumes he could be swapped out for Duffey or May. 

 

I'd love to see all 3 of the kids in the rotation! But it's not going to happen. At least, not in the immediate future. To me, it's just a difficult no. I'd rather spend the time, energy and opportunity to focus on our talented young starters.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I agree with Brock. As he pitched 81 innings in 2014 he is probably in no shape to pitch 200+ innings in 2015. Starting him in the pen until he gets stronger and then seeing where we are at sounds interesting.

 

Gotta believe we aren't the only fanbase thinking along these lines.

 

Or maybe spycake is just really unique.

No, I wasn't advocating for Lee in the pen (unless Lee would be open to it).

 

It would be an indirect way to address the pen -- if Lee can claim a starting spot, you can more easily deploy May, Duffey, Rogers, maybe even Berrios in the pen.  (Or Hughes, if we're not bound by a starting promise to him.)  If and when you are confident in Lee, maybe even Gibson could be moved in trade.

 

Not ideal, as you may not quite know what you have in Lee for a while, but at least it gives your rotation a little extra ace potential too.  Better than just relying on the current staff and internal options to sort itself all out quickly, in my opinion.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Again, based on the scenario as presented. There is only room for Berrios as presented. One assumes he could be swapped out for Duffey or May. 

 

I'd love to see all 3 of the kids in the rotation! But it's not going to happen. At least, not in the immediate future. To me, it's just a difficult no. I'd rather spend the time, energy and opportunity to focus on our talented young starters.

Got it, I didn't look too closely at the original post, sorry.

 

Right now, I suspect May doesn't have a place in the rotation anyway, because he's needed in the pen. And the pen still needs more talent than that, talent that we have yet to add from the outside and that isn't likely to come from inside on day 1 unless it poaches more starters like Duffey.

 

With a lot of FA relievers off the board, and several more traded, a 1 year deal for Lee, giving the rotation a little upside boost and freeing up our young starters for up to one season of pen deployment, might be the best option on the table right now to improve our pitching staff as a whole.

[DaveW]

Yes, I would bring in Lee.

Unfortunately there are about 10 better teams that would want him as well. He would be best served going to a contender.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

As he pitched 81 innings in 2014 he is probably in no shape to pitch 200+ innings in 2015.

Also, if he's healthy, I suspect Lee won't really have any problems pitching a lot of innings in 2016.  Established veteran pitchers generally don't have the same limitations as younger guys.  Wainwright came back just fine from a missed season in 2012, etc.

 

Obviously, the bigger question is will Lee be healthy in the first place (and will he remain healthy through the year).  If and when that is established, though, I don't think you have to worry about easing him into the rotation.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Yes, I would bring in Lee.

Unfortunately there are about 10 better teams that would want him as well. He would be best served going to a contender.

Yeah, MLBTR mentioned 15 teams had inquired about Lee.  He's probably going to have his choice of guaranteed deals from contenders (which should be evidence that he'd be a smart low-risk signing for us too).

[Mike Sixel]

Back when they could have traded for him, but passed (or whatever happened), HECK YES!

 

Now? Not sure. I don't know.

[DocBauer]

 

Got it, I didn't look too closely at the original post, sorry.

 

Right now, I suspect May doesn't have a place in the rotation anyway, because he's needed in the pen. And the pen still needs more talent than that, talent that we have yet to add from the outside and that isn't likely to come from inside on day 1 unless it poaches more starters like Duffey.

 

With a lot of FA relievers off the board, and several more traded, a 1 year deal for Lee, giving the rotation a little upside boost and freeing up our young starters for up to one season of pen deployment, might be the best option on the table right now to improve our pitching staff as a whole.

I tend to agree on May, even though I'm not happy about it. It just seems so obvious to me that a talented young starting pitcher with potential should actually be starting. But then again, depth is a great thing to have. And it's been a long, long time since one of the Twins biggest problems was having too many starters.

 

While finding a real, viable LH for the pen is absolutely paramount, with May and Jepsen, I could almost see the right side pretty well set, along with Fien, Tonkin and Pressly, among a couple others. And eventually, Burdi, Reed, etc. But if I could have it my way, we'd get the quality lefty and still find room for a 1 year deal on a proven RH option to fortify and deepen the pen until one of those young kids arrives.

 

I've always liked Lee, and the risk appears to be small with a potentially nice payoff. But when I look at the depth in the rotation now, Berrios on the way as well, and I factor in the limited number of innings Lee could work, and the fact that I still view the Twins as not yet a finished product, in regard to the re-build, I'd really like to concentrate on the younger and longer term options.

[Danchat]

Maybe I'd give him a deal with a little ($1M) guaranteed and the rest all incentives if he can pitch well enough and for how many innings.

I wonder if he'd be any good in the bullpen. As OldGoat said, he's not ready to throw 200+ innings.

[TheLeviathan]

Probably not.  I don't think we advance this ball-club's future much by pushing another arm (Duffey likely) to the pen for a gamble on Lee.

 

If you could tell me that Milone moves to the pen and we dump Nolasco for a bag of balls - then I'm in.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

Yeah, I think a Lee signing implies that Nolasco would have a very short leash (if he doesn't already), and that we are ready and willing to deal Milone (if not Gibson, for the right price).

[sane09]

 

Yeah, I think a Lee signing implies that Nolasco would have a very short leash (if he doesn't already), and that we are ready and willing to deal Milone (if not Gibson, for the right price).

WTF is Nolasco doing with a leash?

Discard the leash and maybe he'll run away!

[FunnyPenguin]

Definitely, we have a TON of #2-4 starters on our roster, and if he came back strong for only 1 year $6 mil or something, he could push us into the postseason next year.

[Monkeypaws]

Me, no. Twins already have Nolasco's albatross contract, and Mauer's. By all reports, the Twins have an excellent farm system. Time to move forward, and stop grasping at the past.