Trade Plouffe, Sign Davis

[SwainZag]

 

Two thoughts. #1: the Orioles are very likely to give Davis a QA. That means our #1 draft pick. And 2: Wouldn't the 20mil per yr be better on a #1 pitcher? I agree with Eris in that scoring runs is not the main problem.

Now if we do sign, say a stud pitcher or catcher with aQA, then trading Plouffe for a fairly high prospect plus would work for me. But not a DH.

 

I would love Davis in this lineup but yeah with losing our 1st and paying him 6/144........I would think there are better ways money can be spent. 

[TheLeviathan]

Why do people insist on signing FA starting pitchers?  The track record there for getting bang for your buck is atrocious.  

 

I'd much rather sign a big money, 7 year deal on a hitter who plays every day.  Chris Davis and Sano in the middle of our lineup alone would instantly put us into contender status.  This lineup:

 

Hicks-Dozier-Mauer-Sano-Davis-Lucroy-Rosario-Escobar-Buxton

 

has potential to be scary good.  Give me that over Jordan Zimmerman or Zach Grienke every day of the week.  I'll roll with the guys we have in the rotation and hope for big upside from Berrios if that group is the one pounding runs on the board.  It is a FAR better use of the money and the first round pick it's going to cost to add a top level talent.

[USAFChief]

Why do people insist on signing FA starting pitchers?  The track record there for getting bang for your buck is atrocious.  

 

I'd much rather signing a big money, 7 year deal on a hitter who plays every day.  Chris Davis and Sano in the middle of our lineup alone would instantly put us into contender status.  This lineup:

 

Hicks-Dozier-Mauer-Sano-Davis-Lucroy-Rosario-Escobar-Buxton

 

has potential to be scary good.  Give me that over Jordan Zimmerman or Zach Grienke every day of the week.  I'll roll with the guys we have in the rotation and hope for big upside from Berrios if that group is the one pounding runs on the board.  It is a FAR better use of the money and the first round pick it's going to cost to add a top level talent.

You've got Mauer too far left, but yeah.

[bird]

 

I'm on board. No less than a #3 though. 

 

 

Yer dreamin'. Sano didn't drive in that many runs.

[TheLeviathan]

 

You've got Mauer too far left, but yeah.

 

I was trying to stay as realistic as my offseason pipedream would allow.    I'd have had him somewhere right of Escobar if I really want to dream.

[USAFChief]

I was trying to stay as realistic as my offseason pipedream would allow.    I'd have had him somewhere right of Escobar if I really want to dream.

"He's just fine as a nine hitter"

 

//it's been way too long since I last heard that...//

[Danchat]

I'd much rather check out incoming Korean-league player Byung-ho Park before I'd give a big deal to Chris Davis. Park will probably be really expensive too, though.

[dgwills]

Chris Davis is just to scary to me to sign for that kind of money. He was horrible his first 3 years. Good in 2012, great in 2013 and 2015, horrible in 2014. The part I couldn't live with is there was no reason for the bad year in 2014. He was not injured. Ryan is much more risk averse than me, so I see little chance of him taking this gamble.

[HitInAPinch]

I'm leery about spending that kind of money for a Chris Davis when the Twins SP and RP's look more like

Elmer Fud. I'm thinking a really big move is at least a year away.

[James]

 

I'd much rather check out incoming Korean-league player Byung-ho Park before I'd give a big deal to Chris Davis. Park will probably be really expensive too, though.

Park also wouldn't cost the Twins a draft pick as well.  I don't know that Park will be that expensive though.  The posting fee for Kang was $5M.  I wouldn't expect it to take more than that for a posting fee as Kang played a more premium position.  

 

The Chris Davis idea isn't ideal to me.  Sure, he would look good in the lineup for a while, but he's going to command a long contract that might not look so good later on, not to mention loss of the 1st round draft pick, as Davis will surely get a QO.  

[mikelink45]

How about letting Sano develop into what Chris Davis is and not sell the farm for a player who has a short and erratic history.  Develop players don't go crazy on the market place where everyone looks like a Hall of Famer.  Look at the big contracts and big signings!  The history is not good - the A's followed a good formula and suddenly got impatient.  It not only did not work, but they set their entire program back. 

[DaveW]

 

How about letting Sano develop into what Chris Davis is and not sell the farm for a player who has a short and erratic history.  Develop players don't go crazy on the market place where everyone looks like a Hall of Famer.  Look at the big contracts and big signings!  The history is not good - the A's followed a good formula and suddenly got impatient.  It not only did not work, but they set their entire program back. 

Selling what farm? Davis only costs money (and a draft pick, oh well)

 

Instead of having Sano become Davis, how about having two davis'?

[DaveW]

I wouldn't get hung up on losing a draft pick.

Davis is the exact type of player that is worth losing one draft pick in one year (Twins pick 17th anyways)

 

Odds are anyone drafted won't be able to contribute to the team for 4-5 years (if at all) The time to win is now.

[SwainZag]

 

I wouldn't get hung up on losing a draft pick.

Davis is the exact type of player that is worth losing one draft pick in one year (Twins pick 17th anyways)

 

Odds are anyone drafted won't be able to contribute to the team for 4-5 years (if at all) The time to win is now.

 

Put me in the camp of hating to give up 1st round picks to sign players, especially mid-1st round picks.

[TheLeviathan]

Put me in the camp of hating to give up 1st round picks to sign players, especially mid-1st round picks.

Then you are essentially eliminating any high level FA signings. It's Nolasco territory or worse if that's your hang up.

[Shaitan]

 

Adam Dunn maybe one of the most under-rated players of all time.  The guy was 35th all time in HR's.  41st all time in BB's.  And his OPS was 149th all time.  That is not a tally stat.

 

He was a very good player for a time, but was also a bench player for half of his contract that he signed after hitting the free agent market. When he fell, he fell hard.

[DaveW]

Then you are essentially eliminating any high level FA signings. It's Nolasco territory or worse if that's your hang up.

Yup, also it might be worth going back and looking at who the twins have drafted in the first round (mid to late especially) over the years. Sure Gibson and hicks have worked out this far (took hicks 7 years fwiw and Gibson 5) but I think we would trade Wimmers, Michael, Bashore, Bard, Guiterezz etc for a chance to sign one of the elite power bats in the game.

 

Power also is a "skill" that will last longer than speed, defense, etc you see with other players, there is a good chance that by the end of the 6 year contact that Davis is still mashing 30+ bombs a year.

[kab21]

For the same contract I would take Zimmerman over Davis and they might get similar contracts if something like 6/144 is possible for Davis. 

 

I find it ironic that people are pointing out Davis' age 23-25 struggles and then suggesting that the Twins almost entirely build a team from the farm.  Prospects struggle.  It is part of the development process.

 

I think it would be interesting to come up with a list of FA's (with estimated contracts) and top trade targets and for people to rank them according to their preference.  I get this feeling that some are basically dead set against signing anyone because of X, Y and Z and in addition to that unwilling to part with any significant prospect.

[DaveW]

For the same contract I would take Zimmerman over Davis and they might get similar contracts if something like 6/144 is possible for Davis.

 

I find it ironic that people are pointing out Davis' age 23-25 struggles and then suggesting that the Twins almost entirely build a team from the farm. Prospects struggle. It is part of the development process.

 

I think it would be interesting to come up with a list of FA's (with estimated contracts) and top trade targets and for people to rank them according to their preference. I get this feeling that some are basically dead set against signing anyone because of X, Y and Z and in addition to that unwilling to part with any significant prospect.

I'd take Zimmerman in a heartbeat on a 6 year deal. Definitely over Davis to be honest.

 

Good idea on the rankings thought.

 

As of now mine would be:

 

Cueto

Zimmerman

Davis

Cespedes

 

(Price and Grienke are too much money IMO)

[Vanimal46]

As far as position players go, Weiters and Davis seem to be 1A and 1B. Both are Scott Boras clients, which makes me tread lightly. He represents a majority of the top players in the game for a reason. He gets results for his clients: that being long term, inflated salary contracts.. I'm not saying the Twins should avoid all Boras clients going forward. As far as Chris Davis is concerned, 6/144 estimated contract is of no interest to me. 6 years being the deal breaker.

[kab21]

Actually most agents of above average to elite FA's get their clients long term, inflated contracts.  There have been times that Boras has pulled a rabbit out of his hat and created a bidding war where one never existed though. 

[ckrolak]

 

I say we trade Sano for a pitcher. We get a young stud and we win a WS in 3 years with plouffe hitting 5.

I say you're assuming a heck of a lot.  And, yeah, go ahead and trade one of the few players the Twins have that, actually, has a good eye at the plate.

[Shane Wahl]

 

6/144 is what Tim Dierkes (MLBTR) predicts.

 

I wonder if 4/120 would entice him enough? Haha . . . at 20, 20, 20, SIXTY!!!!!

 

(post Mauer, Santana, and Perkins deals)

[Shane Wahl]

Seriously, just pretend he takes my deal above at 4/120 (certainly it has to be back-ended in the latter half of the deal--if they have $10 million to spend and aren't handing out money to Milone, Plouffe, etc., then there is about a $26 million window for next season).

 

Maybe it is 22 (Lucroy gets paid $4 million here), 27, 32, 39 . . .

 

Then Plouffe, Arcia, Vargas, and Pinto are all on the table (with Stewart, for instance) to figure out a way to get Lucroy and some top 100 prospect.

 

You can also think of Davis and Lucroy as essentially ending the free agent process for a couple years, eliminating the need for these $10 million deals here and there on aging veterans.

 

By June: Hicks, Mauer, Sano, Davis, Dozier, Rosario, Lucroy, Escobar, Buxton

[tobi0040]

 

He was a very good player for a time, but was also a bench player for half of his contract that he signed after hitting the free agent market. When he fell, he fell hard.

 

Bench player maybe a little harsh.  He had a terrible first year. Then .800 OPS, .762, and .752. 41, 34, and 22 HR while taking 250 BB's those last three years.

[Platoon]

The Twins aren't going to sign an "A" level prospect. If they would, it would be the first ever. While one can argue about the level of their spending on players, it cannot be argued that their revenue stream is consistent with the Boston, NY and LA crowd. Money as a rule doesn't buy flags, it helps, but isn't the panacea some think. Good scouting, solid minor league orginisation, and aggressive management of assets is more important. One can always dream, and buying Chris Davis is a dream. For me, I would be far more interested in resolving the catching situation, getting some power arms in the BP, and figuring out what to do with the Mauer, Plouffe, and Sano conundrum. These actions are doable, and for little expense. And the net result, would be a greatly improved baseball team!

[Vanimal46]

 

Actually most agents of above average to elite FA's get their clients long term, inflated contracts.  There have been times that Boras has pulled a rabbit out of his hat and created a bidding war where one never existed though. 

 

You are right, most agents can get their clients good contracts. However, Scott Boras isn't most agents.... He has the track record and an advantage on analytics  for his clients than his competition. All I'm saying is tread lightly with him. He didn't build a net worth of over $100 million by losing at the negotiating table.  

[kab21]

 

You are right, most agents can get their clients good contracts. However, Scott Boras isn't most agents.... He has the track record and an advantage on analytics  for his clients than his competition. All I'm saying is tread lightly with him. He didn't build a net worth of over $100 million by losing at the negotiating table.  

You dismiss the ability of the other agents.  Boras gets the press because he is the biggest name but each of the MLB agents is getting megadeals for superstar FA's.

[jsteve96]

 

I think Davis is over rated on these boards......but I know I'm in the minority on that.

i agree with you. I don't like lefties in TF and giving out 100 million for a guy who has totaled 14.5 WAR through age 30 seems a little much... i'd give that 21AAV to Jason Hayward to play RF.

[jsteve96]

i like paying for a premier position player like Hayward, Wieters or Upton over a player like Davis. DH isn't the problem for the Twins, and we don't want teams to feel like we HAVE to trade Plouffe because then offers will be lower, and Davis is going to sign somewhat early i'd bet