Houston series- does management blow it with poor roster construction?

[curt1965]

I really can't figure out TR and our front office personal. Are they trying to set the Twins up to "go for it (wildcard)",or don't they really care one way or another.

For example, their 3 game series with the formidable Astro might determine which direction the Twins take for the rest of the year, My guesses to what TR is thinking tonight before the huge Astro series this weekend.

1. The series will be sold out-more money for the Pohlads,

2. We always lose these defining games because the astro players have more big time expirience, they don't.get rattled if they get down early, cause their studs always come through in the clutch. For example, when one of their better player comes up in the later innings, the Twins will go at him with a group of secondary relievers.Each of the 25 men on the Astro roster excels at something that can turn a close game around, the Twins just the opposite..

3. The Twins roster construction. Is the worst in the history of baseball!. 4 left handed relievers? You must be sh^*ing me!

4. The Twins have several players in Triple AAA who could contribute in the hitting and pitching area if they were with the club. But I am assuming Terry and the boys are waiting for September 1 to arrive, so they can expand the rosters. It would make sense to most of us that those crucial moves should be made before the first game of this huge series.

Any thoughts?

[Minniman]

Terry Ryan is protecting the future by not bringing up too many players and giving them time in service on a team that will get hammered in the playoffs - even if they do make it as a wild card team this season.

 

Any GM that would risk the future year control of these players for a wild card run with this team should be fired.

[USAFChief]

Terry Ryan is protecting the future by not bringing up too many players and giving them time in service on a team that will get hammered in the playoffs - even if they do make it as a wild card team this season.

 

Any GM that would risk the future year control of these players for a wild card run with this team should be fired.

IMO you have that backwards...any GM more worried about 2021 than a playoff run should be fired.

[071063]

 

IMO you have that backwards...any GM more worried about 2021 than a playoff run should be fired.

No, he has it right.  This team was not supposed to contend this year and are not as good as their record.  Managing for the future is still the right move.

[HitInAPinch]

Well, the "poor roster construction" by management has the Twins, at the very least, in the playoff conversation. 

[Shane Wahl]

Worrying about 2021 is completely silly.

 

Vargas and Berrios should be with the team.

[USAFChief]

 

No, he has it right.  This team was not supposed to contend this year and are not as good as their record.  Managing for the future is still the right move.

I don't think "we couldn't predict 2015 correctly, but trust us when we predict 2021" carries a lot of weight.  Maybe that's just me.

[DaveW]

Well, the "poor roster construction" by management has the Twins, at the very least, in the playoff conversation.

Please. The only teams not in the conversation currently are Seattle, Oakland and Boston.

 

Have they exceeded expectations? Sure. But let's not make it seem like they are battling it out with KC for the division title (which should ALWAYS be the first goal out of spring training)

 

The small bench has killed them. The weird bullpen has killed them (but they have finally looked decent as of late) in a race this right every single game counts, you need to give your team a chance every night

[DaveW]

Worrying about 2021 is completely silly.

 

Vargas and Berrios should be with the team.

agreed 100%

 

Vargas isn't worth worrying about service time wise, buxton and Sano are worth it, Berrios...who knows, I wouldn't worry about it personally.

[Willihammer]

 

3. The Twins roster construction. Is the worst in the history of baseball!. 4 left handed relievers? You must be sh^*ing me!

You think TR is thinking that?

[Brock Beauchamp]

The team returns from a 6-4 road trip against potential playoff teams but has the worst roster in the history of baseball.

 

*flails wildly*

[bird]

Wow. The Twins roster construction. Is the worst in the history of baseball!

 

This is good information, thanks.

 

Out of curiosity, who came in second in the history of baseball?

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Terry Ryan is protecting the future by not bringing up too many players and giving them time in service on a team that will get hammered in the playoffs - even if they do make it as a wild card team this season.

TR may be cautious and conservative with his promotions as a general rule, but I doubt it has anything to do with his forecast for our 2015 playoff chances or player service time right now.

 

I honestly think TR believes he's got his best 2015 team on the field at the moment, although hopefully he is thinking long and hard about how Berrios could improve it and expanded rosters could help it too.

[Major League Ready]

 

IMO you have that backwards...any GM more worried about 2021 than a playoff run should be fired.

Chief,
There are two fundamental differences between how fans think and how GMs think.    These fundamental differences are often the source of discontent among fans, especially the more hard core type fans here on TD.   

 

The first one is how fans view any of the decisions surrounding financial management.   The second is short-term vs long-term management.   Much of the financial related discussion I see here is not even remotely similar to how the people who make these decisions think.  The same is true of balancing short-term vs long-term performance.   It is the responsibility of leadership to provide the direction that assures success long-term.  Line level managers are responsible for short-term or more tactical decisions.

 

Houston is a great example.  I thought they did a terrific job but I bet their hard core fans were cursing them when they had a payroll which as I recall dipped below $30M.  They moved all of their proven players for future assets while riding the team of financial obligations that might encumber them when they got into contention.  They look like they will be great for a decade.  The moves our team made to satisfy the short-term or immediate need (Nolasco / Hughes / Santana and extending Perkins) are going to restrict this team’s ability to fill crucial holes as we now enter contention.  There are many here who absolutely reject the concept of timing investment.  For those posters, I ask how nice would it be to have the $44M that will be paid for those four players through 2019-20 to invest in a free agent front of the rotation starter and a catcher of SS.  FA / Berrios / May / Gibson / Duffey / Meyer and eventually Gonsalves plus an additional $20M to spend filing holes looks a lot better than what we are going to have unless they can somehow unload these guys.

[bluechipper]

Could everyone stop saying "this team would get destroyed in the playoffs this year anyways so don't risk the future." This isn't the NBA, the MLB playoffs are the most random playoffs in all of sports. Once you get in, you just hope your pitching gets hot and you get some timely hits. After the WC game, the odds are roughly the same for everyone.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Houston is a great example.  I thought they did a terrific job but I bet their hard core fans were cursing them when they had a payroll which as I recall dipped below $30M.  They moved all of their proven players for future assets while riding the team of financial obligations that might encumber them when they got into contention.  They look like they will be great for a decade.  The moves our team made to satisfy the short-term or immediate need (Nolasco / Hughes / Santana and extending Perkins) are going to restrict this team’s ability to fill crucial holes as we now enter contention.  There are many here who absolutely reject the concept of timing investment.

So you are saying our GM absolutely rejects the concept of timing investment?

[stringer bell]

The short bench is a fact of life with a 13-man pitching staff, which has been made necessary because of a succession of short starts. The addition of Cotts and Jepsen, plus (perhaps) a rejuvenated Boyer has helped greatly, but there aren't a lot of options in the organization for "bench bat". It could have been Arcia, but he has failed miserably at AAA.

 

Vargas is swinging better, is a switch hitter and could run into a pitch now and then. He should be up as soon as the pitching staff allows or 9/1 if it doesn't.

[Willihammer]

Vargas would be a great late-inning PH option right now.

[Minniman]

 

TR may be cautious and conservative with his promotions as a general rule, but I doubt it has anything to do with his forecast for our 2015 playoff chances or player service time right now.

 

I honestly think TR believes he's got his best 2015 team on the field at the moment, although hopefully he is thinking long and hard about how Berrios could improve it and expanded rosters could help it too.

 

If TR is not worried about service time, he should not be the GM.

 

 

IMO you have that backwards...any GM more worried about 2021 than a playoff run should be fired.

 

Maybe I should have rephrased that ... TR should worry more about time in service than a playoff one.

 

This team is not like the Twins in 1987 or 1991; this team is not built for a stretch run.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

If TR is not worried about service time, he should not be the GM.

He's not going to intentionally make his team worse in a playoff race to save ~30 days service time, no.  Not sure any GM in the game would do that.

[HitInAPinch]

 

Please. The only teams not in the conversation currently are Seattle, Oakland and Boston.

Have they exceeded expectations? Sure. But let's not make it seem like they are battling it out with KC for the division title (which should ALWAYS be the first goal out of spring training)

The small bench has killed them. The weird bullpen has killed them (but they have finally looked decent as of late) in a race this right every single game counts, you need to give your team a chance every night

So, are they in contention for the #2 wild card spot or not?

 

[Comrade Bork]

Could everyone stop saying "this team would get destroyed in the playoffs this year anyways so don't risk the future." This isn't the NBA, the MLB playoffs are the most random playoffs in all of sports. Once you get in, you just hope your pitching gets hot and you get some timely hits. After the WC game, the odds are roughly the same for everyone.

I totally agree with baseball having unpredictable playoffs, but all I see is Pelfrey and Hughes getting crushed by superior batters.

The worst roster in the history of baseball is a ridiculous statement though. Despite our holes at ss and catcher (even though they are both hot right now) I'm happy with our position players. But, there is no way our below average starters all get hot and win us games. The mind boggles at the potential of a Pelfrey Milne Gibson trio winning the world series.

[Brock Beauchamp]

One thing that tends to get overlooked is that if the Twins make the playoffs - and even if they're knocked out early - that's extra money made by the team.

 

It also means season tickets and attendance goes up in 2016, particularly the first few months of the season. Which means more money (theoretically) for payroll in 2016 and probably 2017.

 

Never let service time get in the way of a playoff run unless the player is going to bring only marginal value (which is actually a pretty legit argument to not call up Berrios, though I think he could have an impact). Not only does it energize the team and franchise but it makes a lot of money the following season as well.

 

Just put the best team on the field and let the chips fall where they may in 2022.

[Mike Sixel]

 

One thing that tends to get overlooked is that if the Twins make the playoffs - and even if they're knocked out early - that's extra money made by the team.

 

It also means season tickets and attendance goes up in 2016, particularly the first few months of the season. Which means more money (theoretically) for payroll in 2016 and probably 2017.

 

Never let service time get in the way of a playoff run unless the player is going to bring only marginal value (which is actually a pretty legit argument to not call up Berrios, though I think he could have an impact). Not only does it energize the team and franchise but it makes a lot of money the following season as well.

 

Just put the best team on the field and let the chips fall where they may in 2022.

 

Amen.

 

If people would get over the hyperbole of "worst", and, you know, talk about the roster construction, that would be great......some of you did that.

 

While I understand the need to worry about timing and contracts and whatnot.......I don't agree at all that Berrios should be down for that reason. I don't think they should have Vargas down, with no PH on the bench. Other than that, not sure what I'd change at this point......

[Brock Beauchamp]

Amen.

 

If people would get over the hyperbole of "worst", and, you know, talk about the roster construction, that would be great......some of you did that.

 

While I understand the need to worry about timing and contracts and whatnot.......I don't agree at all that Berrios should be down for that reason. I don't think they should have Vargas down, with no PH on the bench. Other than that, not sure what I'd change at this point......

The thing is, the roster just isn't that bad right now. Could it improve? Yeah, I think so but we're at the point of marginal gains. There are no gaping holes that can be fixed internally now that short and the pen look to be in decent shape.

 

My big problem is how long it took to get here, not the actual changes that were made. They were adequate.

[Mike Sixel]

And I gave my two examples of what I'd do to improve the margins (I'm not sure Berrios is on the margin, but I'm willing to say it for now).

[Thrylos]

 

 After the WC game, the odds are roughly the same for everyone.

 

If that were true, this millennium the Twins should had: Gone to the ALDS 4 times, to the WC twice and won a WC once

 

Not. Even. Close.

 

Regardless of what a GM plans in the beginning of the season, if you see your team contending in July and August, you should: a. have the best 25 up at all times and b. try to improve your team.  If you always look at your future, your present will become your past...

 

Ryan on the other hand...

 

I think that the series with the Rangers and Angels are equally important (or even more, because the Twins are not chasing the Astros.)   If the Twins beat those teams, win or sweep the home series and don't get swept on the road, they are in...

[Brock Beauchamp]

And I gave my two examples of what I'd do to improve the margins (I'm not sure Berrios is on the margin, but I'm willing to say it for now).

I don't know if Berrios is on the margin, it really depends whether the front office thinks he has 5-6 more starts in him.

 

And there's really no reason not to call up Vargas.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Never let service time get in the way of a playoff run unless the player is going to bring only marginal value (which is actually a pretty legit argument to not call up Berrios, though I think he could have an impact).

Agreed, but I think the bullpen and rotation are still weak enough that Berrios absolutely needs to get a chance.  It may not work, the attempt may get scuttled after a couple appearances, even if it does work they don't have to run him into the ground -- but there's just no way they can pass up the chance, given the current state of our pitching staff, over a few days service time.

 

Which is why I am starting to think it will happen.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Agreed, but I think the bullpen and rotation are still weak enough that Berrios absolutely needs to get a chance.  It may not work, the attempt may get scuttled after a couple appearances, even if it does work they don't have to run him into the ground -- but there's just no way they can pass up the chance, given the current state of our pitching staff, over a few days service time.

 

Which is why I am starting to think it will happen.

To be clear, I'm all in favor of calling up Berrios.