What to do with Ervin Santana

[arobertson22]

It is clear that he is not a AL pitcher. The sad thing is that he is almost worse than Ricky Nolasco. I would be willing to put him on waivers and pay off some of his contract if anyone would want to claim him and possibly get a shortstop. But knowing Terry Ryan that is not gonna happen.

[Thrylos]

What do Santana and Nolasco have in common?

 

Got to go to the root cause of the problem.

 

Fire Terry Ryan,  And shoot up Santana with something.  Next one is 162 games. That will take care of a lot of things

[arobertson22]

 

What do Santana and Nolasco have in common?

 

Got to go to the root cause of the problem.

 

Fire Terry Ryan,  And shoot up Santana with something.  Next one is 162 games. That will take care of a lot of things

Good idea

[Danchat]

Yeah, I don't know what to do with him.

 

You have to tell Santana that he's got to pitch well to keep on starting. Maybe if he can have a normal spring training to regular season and he can at least be an average starter in 2016...

 

The Twins can't just dump him. He's only one year in! They'll at least have to stick with him in 2016 and hope things will go better.

[jorgenswest]

As soon as a younger player can match his performance it is time to move. Anything else hurts the team on. It was very unlikely he would be an average AL pitcher this year and that probability went to 0 when his PED use was uncovered.

[stringer bell]

It's not exactly the same, but Santana's season reminds me of the Morales signing. Morales started out decently and everyone marveled that he could hit without a spring training. He tailed off dramatically after that.

 

Santana missed half a season, but three of his first four starts were outstanding. Now it seems like everything is catching up with him. Maybe, like Morales, he come back and be his former self next year. I also wonder how long he was using steroids and if his arm is recovering enough and there isn't as much life on his pitches, as witnessed by the poor strikeout rate.

[kab21]

I think people are prematurely discarding Santana because of a season interrupted by an 80 game suspension.

 

I also think that it is especially funny that he somehow is clearly not an AL pitcher despite pitching all but one season in the AL.

 

I think the Morales comparison is interesting though.  He missed a substantial part of the season and he was awful.  Guess how he is doing this year?  .792 OPS - exactly what was expected

 

I would give Santana until the middle of next season before being concerned.  I would look at moving him into the bullpen when rosters expand though (or now and send a RP'er down).  He is doing awful.

[Shaitan]

Santana spent, what, 1 year in the NL?

[Dr. Evil]

Yeah, I don't know what to do with him.

 

You have to tell Santana that he's got to pitch well to keep on starting. Maybe if he can have a normal spring training to regular season and he can at least be an average starter in 2016...

 

The Twins can't just dump him. He's only one year in! They'll at least have to stick with him in 2016 and hope things will go better.

I agree, just like Kendrys.

[Rosterman]

It makes you wonder if longterm contracts should be suspended if a player is caught using. They get to ffinish out the season, but the option is there to continue the contract or cancel it out, and would such a thing be viable and actually work. 

 

[Minniman]

 

What do Santana and Nolasco have in common?

 

Got to go to the root cause of the problem.

 

Fire Terry Ryan,  And shoot up Santana with something. That will take care of a lot of things

 

Shoot Terry Ryan and fire up Santana?

 

You are harsh!

 

oh, wait ... never mind.

 

[shs_59]

• I was most definately NOT a fan of the signing of Ervin Santana...

Most Twins fans cheered, although i didn't badger it greatly i was in the "disapprove" camp.

 

Mostly, because of the Money it took to get him here,  at 4 years and 44 Million instead of 54 Million sign me up.

 

I wasn't a fan of Hughes' extension either , but Liked or was OK with the original 3 year 24 MM deal he got.  However I think the Hughes extension could look smart, as long as he's healthy.

 

The Big Elephant is the Nolasco deal, in which at the time i actually kind of liked it  4 yrs 49 MM  ....but Boy was i wrong,  HOWEVER , I'm still glad we DID not get Garza after all...

 

its funny to think if we would of been patient enough, we could of had Lester or Johnny Cueto this off-season for roughly the same price it takes of all Santana, Hughes, and Nolasco....

 

Oooops

 

 

[DaveW]

Santana isn't getting cut, and he isn't getting traded baring a miracle, the best hope is he figures out how to pitch again and at least can become a #3 or #4 type the rest of his contract. Personally, I would debate finding an injury and shutting him down and calling up Berrios. Go into 2016 with a clean slate and hope he figures it out a bit.

The frustrating thing about Santana is his demeanor on the mound sucks, and his quotes after the Yankee game about "not watching tape and just throwing what he throws" shows a huge lack of accountability at best and incompetence at worst. Hopefully he was just upset a bit and can figure it out. The Twins can survive one bad pitching contract, but I am not sure they can survive two, one of Nolasco or Santana needs to prove to be a 200 IP #4 guy at the very very very least.

[DaveW]

 

 

 

• I was most definately NOT a fan of the signing of Ervin Santana...

Most Twins fans cheered, although i didn't badger it greatly i was in the "disapprove" camp.

 

Mostly, because of the Money it took to get him here,  at 4 years and 44 Million instead of 54 Million sign me up.

 

I wasn't a fan of Hughes' extension either , but Liked or was OK with the original 3 year 24 MM deal he got.  However I think the Hughes extension could look smart, as long as he's healthy.

 

The Big Elephant is the Nolasco deal, in which at the time i actually kind of liked it  4 yrs 49 MM  ....but Boy was i wrong,  HOWEVER , I'm still glad we DID not get Garza after all...

 

its funny to think if we would of been patient enough, we could of had Lester or Johnny Cueto this off-season for roughly the same price it takes of all Santana, Hughes, and Nolasco....

 

Oooops

 

Give me Garza and his contract over Nolasco or Santana at this point. He had a pretty solid 2014 and actually was looking halfway decent recently for the Brewers this year (last two starts, yikes)

[Kirby_waved_at_me]

The Twins got stuck paying a premium for a couple #3/#4 starters in Santana and Nolasco.

 

It would be nice if there was an out clause for a team signing a player that later turns out to have been using, but the Twins did get $$$ back for the games Santana was out.

 

I think it's unfortunate that it turned out the way it has so far, but the Twins had to shoot higher than Jason Marquis or Livan Hernandez or Kevin Correia. Nolasco and Santana represent the talent level they could attract with the money they could spend the past couple off-seasons.

 

Hughes was practically a miracle in his first year here, 1 out of 3 is not a great success rate for big free agent signings, though.

[Gene Larkin]

It is clear that he is not a AL pitcher.

He pitched well for Angels and Royals. I think it's clear he's not a good juice-free pitcher.

[nicksaviking]

I didn't like the signing, and I'd love to unload the contract, but I think we're getting a bit harsh here.  The PED comments are probably fair game since clearly it's part of his story, but they are getting close to being personal attacks as opposed to professional attacks and for the record, his average fastball velocity is actually the highest it's been since 2008 and a half a MPH higher than last year. 

 

I would love to get out from under his contract, I don't like his age, and I don't like the torn UCL, but mostly I just want to see the young arms, as this is a young man's game and it's the fresh arms that are dominating this league for the most part while the guys with a lot of miles are fading fast.

 

Still, if I had to bet, of Nolasco, Santana and Hughes, my money is on Santana to bounce back next year.  Hughes' velocity is falling off of a cliff, and Nolasco, well he's still Nolasco.  I don't want vets, but things look rosier for Santana than the others.

[HitInAPinch]

I think this is one of the more bizarre topics I've seen in my relatively short time on TD.

 

1.  E. Santana hasn't pitched well in the last 5 starts

2.  The Twins are in the Wild Card hunt

3.  Because of the suspension, E. Santana can not pitch in the playoffs

4.  Why in the hell is E. Santana still pitching?  It's time to sit him down;  May is still available.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

I think people are prematurely discarding Santana because of a season interrupted by an 80 game suspension.

 

I also think that it is especially funny that he somehow is clearly not an AL pitcher despite pitching all but one season in the AL.

 

I think the Morales comparison is interesting though. He missed a substantial part of the season and he was awful. Guess how he is doing this year? .792 OPS - exactly what was expected

 

I would give Santana until the middle of next season before being concerned. I would look at moving him into the bullpen when rosters expand though (or now and send a RP'er down). He is doing awful.

My thoughts exactly.

[DaveW]

The best solution at this point is to send him to the pen (essentially shutting him down this year), and call up Berrios to take his sport in the rotation.

[twinssouth]

At game last night, kept grooving his fb 91 to 94, hitters were looking for it. Didn't use his slider enough. When he did, it was swing and miss. Me thinks now that he's off the roids, he's afraid to use that slider to much, thinking he'll blow his elbow out. Twins may have a big problem with that contract.

[sane]

It is clear that he is not a AL pitcher.

None of that is clear.

This site is full of people that think temporary situations are permanent.ie.;

"Hicks can't hit; Hughes is wonderful;the National League is weak; (despite the Cardinals and the Giants repeatedly winning the World Series); Danny Santana, Arcia and Vargas are terrific!; Danny Santana, Arcia and Vargas are terrible!;Hughes is terrible, Milone is terrible, Pelfrey is terrible, Gibson is terrible, Colabello is terrible - Colabello is wonderful!"

Drawing long term conclusions from short term performances just doesn't work well.