Sano, Mauer, and Plouffe

[RJM96]

Assuming the Twins decide to keep Plouffe around for another year or two, how will playing time likely be divided up at third, first, and DH? Plouffe is the most flexible as he is the only one who can play all three positions. I'm thinking Mauer will sit against most good lefties. This will open up the DH spot for someone else on those days. How often will Sano get to play third? Will he ever get any reps at first?

[rghrbek]

You're thinking Mauer will sit against lefties?  Although extremely logical, what in tarnation makes you think that Molly or the FO would let that happen and admit defeat with Joe?

 

I'm thinking Mauer will play another 140 games at first base and rarely sit, thus blocking the Twins from developing more young players (see Sano, Kepler, Vargas) in the field or getting more at bats.

 

Also, I fully do not expect the twins to trade Ploufe (which they should if they are going to keep Mauer at first 140 plus games), keeping the weird log jam going...

[RJM96]

You're thinking Mauer will sit against lefties? Although extremely logical, what in tarnation makes you think that Molly or the FO would let that happen and admit defeat with Joe?

 

I'm thinking Mauer will play another 140 games at first base and rarely sit, thus blocking the Twins from developing more young players (see Sano, Kepler, Vargas) in the field or getting more at bats.

I'm thinking (and hoping) that Mauer plays first for 100 games, and ends up at DH for another 20. This would be ideal IMO. The 40 games he misses might or might not be injury related.

[RJM96]

Mauer could always sit against good lefties, and pinch hit later in the game when they bring in a righty reliever.

[Mike Sixel]

Tough call, frankly.

 

I think Plouffe will be traded, but that wasn't an option.......

 

So, Sano at DH 100 games, Plouffe at 3B those games, and vice versa the other 62 games. Except between the two of them, they'll get about 20 games at 1B, imo. Mauer gets the rest.

 

 

[dougkoebernick]

If they don't trade Plouffe, here's what you have:
 

1B - Mauer

3B - Plouffe

DH - Sano

 

If this takes place Sano does some spot starts at 3B or 1B, Mauer does some spot starts at DH, and Plouffe does some spot starts at DH.

 

3 guys. 3 positions. Consistency. No log jam.

 

[RJM96]

If they don't trade Plouffe, here's what you have:

 

1B - Mauer

3B - Plouffe

DH - Sano

 

If this takes place Sano does some spot starts at 3B or 1B, Mauer does some spot starts at DH, and Plouffe does some spot starts at DH.

 

3 guys. 3 positions. Consistency. No log jam.

Well then what happens to guys like Arcia, Vargas, and (in the future) Walker? I could potentially see this work out in the short term, but not long term.

[HitInAPinch]

If Sano gets a lot more playing time @ 3B, I think we'll have our answer.

[nicksaviking]

 

Tough call, frankly.

 

I think Plouffe will be traded, but that wasn't an option.......

 

 

I agree, for all the hand sitting at the deadline, I think Ryan makes a lot of moves this offseason.  Overcomepensation for previous inactivity is not out of the question either.

[Badsmerf]

Plouffe or Mauer have to go. Plouffe would bring far more value back than Mauer. At some point, the Twins are going to have to take a hard stance with Mauer. How long do they give him to be a terrible player? I wish it would have worked out, but it hasn't.

 

As soon as next season the Twins hope to contend for the division. Are they really going to employ one of the worst 1b in the league for the entire year? Most businesses know when to cut their losses. 

[Willihammer]

IMO you have to keep Plouffe at least one more year. Teams just don't  pony up for 2 years vs. 1  year of control. With that in mind, I keep the status quo. Nobody is forcing the issue. Hunter will be gone, there will be 1-2 spots open in the outfield for Arcia, depending on where Buxton starts. I don't see a crunch right now.

[Mike Sixel]

Mauer being below replacement level isn't forcing the issue?

 

If Buxton or Kepler are here or ready next year......or both......

[Willihammer]

I know we're a shrinkinig group but I think Mauer has some leash left. Maybe bat him bottom half but I think he has 2-3 good (.800+) seasons left in him.I just cannot believe he's totally washed up already.

[COtwin]

If a player under contract refuses assignment to the minors does that void their contract?  I am guessing no, but I can hope right:)

[Mike Sixel]

 

If a player under contract refuses assignment to the minors does that void their contract?  I am guessing no, but I can hope right:)

 

heh.....nope.

[dougkoebernick]

 

Well then what happens to guys like Arcia, Vargas, and (in the future) Walker? I could potentially see this work out in the short term, but not long term.

Excellent question - until those guys show that they are better than the other three I don't see it as a problem. I think Mauer, Plouffe and Sano are above average MLBers and if someone is better than them that's not a bad problem to have.  If the others do show that they are MLBers (and some may argue Arcia and Vargas have shown that in flashes) they can be trade bait or backups. I actually think Kepler is different because he can actually play solid defense and play in the outfield as well. One might say that the outfield is full as well but I think this is a good problem to have and these things always seem to work themselves out, either with players being moved or not developing like we expect. 

[Badsmerf]

This is a topic that is going to dominate Minnesota sports for the next 3 years. Regardless of what the Twins choose to do, the decision will be under a microscope. Mauer hasn't done anything the last 2 seasons to suggest he will turn it around. That doesn't mean he can't, there is just no evidence of it.

 

I do fully expect Plouffe to be traded and Mauer to play 1b in 2016. However, I don't think he will have an unlimited leash next season. If Kepler continues to hit like he has for the past year+, it will be difficult for the Twins not to promote him. There is also the development of Hicks and Rosario. Not mention Arcia and Vargas would almost certainly put up more than a 700 OPS. 

[Mike Sixel]

They deferred to him on the catching thing, and showed no courage as an organization. I don't see how that changes with playing time. This is up to Mauer, imo.

[clutterheart]

 

They deferred to him on the catching thing, and showed no courage as an organization. I don't see how that changes with playing time. This is up to Mauer, imo.

 

What?  No courage?  Thats just silly.  

 

Mauer put up HOF numbers as a catcher.  Then his numbers started decline.  Logically they moved him out from behind the plate so he could be less beat up and put up his usual fantastic stat line.

Unfortunately that didn't help and his numbers continued to decline.

 

But there was nothing wrong with the Twins thought process behind moving him away from the plate, It didn't work out.  Moving him back now would be worse as he hasn't caught in 2 years.

[Mike Sixel]

Uh, Mauer approached them about moving, they didn't ask him to move. Unless I misread every single report.

[Badsmerf]

 

What?  No courage?  Thats just silly.  

 

Mauer put up HOF numbers as a catcher.  Then his numbers started decline.  Logically they moved him out from behind the plate so he could be less beat up and put up his usual fantastic stat line.

Unfortunately that didn't help and his numbers continued to decline.

 

But there was nothing wrong with the Twins thought process behind moving him away from the plate, It didn't work out.  Moving him back now would be worse as he hasn't caught in 2 years.

Logically? No, it isn't "logically." Mauer was valuable behind the plate. When that decision was made, his value as a player plummeted considerably. Instead of being, at his worst (while catching), an above average player, he instantly became a replacement level player. That isn't logical to me, that is (was) stupid. Now, the Twins have a terrible 1b and terrible C. Great decision. 

[clutterheart]

 

Uh, Mauer approached them about moving, they didn't ask him to move. Unless I misread every single report.

 

But so what?  The logic is sound.  It just didn't work

[clutterheart]

 

Logically? No, it isn't "logically." Mauer was valuable behind the plate. When that decision was made, his value as a player plummeted considerably. Instead of being, at his worst (while catching), an above average player, he instantly became a replacement level player. That isn't logical to me, that is (was) stupid. Now, the Twins have a terrible 1b and terrible C. Great decision. 

 

Huh?

In 2013 he had an.880 OPS.  That would put him #5 amongs tfirst baseman

That is hardly replacement level.

But he missed 50 games due to injuries.

Logically it just makes sense that if he moved to 1B full time he would continue his HOF career, and continue to be an amazing hitter.

It didn't work, and now the FO has some decisions to make.  But...you can't say it the FO lacked "courage."  All you can say is too bad it didn't work.  

[Mike Sixel]

 

But so what?  The logic is sound.  It just didn't work

 

My point was.....they didn't decide, he did. And, I think they'll defer to him on deciding on how much he plays next year also. Hope to be wrong....

[Danchat]

I was pretty sure the reason why Mauer stopped playing catcher was because of his concussion. I remember that being the narrative in early 2014 articles. 

 

It's a shame he can't catch anymore, but at least he isn't plagued with injuries. In early 2014, us Twins Daily posters thought that it was a good idea to move Mauer to 1B even though it'd be a downgrade at catcher. At least he could stay healthy and keep hitting, we thought. Unfortunately, none of us suspected Mauer's batting would sharply decline...

[Badsmerf]

 

Huh?

In 2013 he had an.880 OPS.  That would put him #5 amongs tfirst baseman

That is hardly replacement level.

But he missed 50 games due to injuries.

Logically it just makes sense that if he moved to 1B full time he would continue his HOF career, and continue to be an amazing hitter.

It didn't work, and now the FO has some decisions to make.  But...you can't say it the FO lacked "courage."  All you can say is too bad it didn't work.  

That isn't logic, that is an assumption. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

If I'm the GM in the offseason, I'm trying to trade both Plouffe and Dozier, which clears the way for Sano and Polanco.  I'd see if the Brewers would be interested (a top 4 of Dozier/Braun/Lucroy/Plouffe isn't a bad place to start) for Tyrone Taylor and Jorge Lopez.  Alternatively, I'd ask the Pirates for 2 out of McGuire/Ramirez/Tucker.  I tell Torii he can stick around for $3M per year as a bench bat/spot starter at DH, with the understanding that he'll need to heavily mentor Hicks, Buxton and Rosario.  I start with Arcia as my everyday DH, and give him until the Super 2 to prove he can stick, otherwise I'm trading him for whatever I can get, and calling up Kepler.  Duensing, Fien, and Boyer are all gone, replaced by Tonkin, Oliveros, and Achter.  Graham is sent to AAA, and Pressly is called up, and the if Jepsen falters, he's DFA'd and Meyer is brought up.  I would get what I could for a package of Nolasco and Milone (throwing in coverage of Ricky's contract if needed), and let Pelfrey walk.  Finally, I would actively seek SS or C upgrades, but wouldn't give up a ton for those.  So, my roster would be as below.

 

1--Buxton--CF

2--Hicks--RF

3--Rosario--RF

4--Sano--3B

5--Arcia--DH

6--Polanco--2B

7--Mauer--1B

8--Suzuki--C

9--Escobar--SS

 

Bench:

Hunter

Nunez

Herrmann

Nate Hanson

 

SP--Santana

SP--Hughes

SP--Gibson

SP--May

SP--Berrios (Duffey if worried about Berrios' clock)

 

RP--Jepsen

RP--Pressly

RP--Achter

RP--Oliveros

RP--Tonkin

RP--O'Rourke

CP--Perkins

[Badsmerf]

I like the outside the box thinking. That would be the best option for the Twins to take, but I highly doubt they will. The downgrade from Dozier to Polanco would be pretty steep in 2016 I think. By 2018, that gap will be a whole lot closer. I still think the Twins are trying to get him to stick at SS though.

[Whammy]

If I remember correctly, back in 2013 the Twins put Mauer on waivers and the rumor was that Boston claimed him. I don't think there was any chance we were going to move him unless we just got overwhelmed by an offer.

 

At this point, if someone claimed him, they'd consider just letting him go for nothing, right?

 

And the fans wouldn't revolt, right?

[kab21]

I am not sure what this fascination is with trading away very good MLB starters (Dozier and Plouffe) because the Twins have some top 100ish prospects (Kepler, Polanco, etc...) that might be blocked or might play elsewhere.  This kind of depth is a good thing to have for a winning ballclub.