(almost) time to trade Plouffe for a catcher

[Dr. Evil]

 

Hopefully Ryan isn't the one with the trigger to pull.

I wouldn't let him pull my finger.

[Dr. Evil]

Move Plouffe to first base and play Sano at third for the remainder of the season.

[Jham]

 

I think we can safely assume Alex Avila will be resigned by Detroit and the negotiations will be done at Thanksgiving dinner table.  So he's out. 

 

Most of them are weaker hitting guys.  I would spend my money on Wieters and hope he gets healthy, but it sounds like first base is in his near future, especially with back issues and coming off Tommy John.  Other than that most remind me of Suzuki.  Jaso and AJ might be a notch higher hitter, but AJ is not future plans worthy.

 

Well, I did state that Zuke is already under contract.  Not ideal.  But if no one on that list of free agents excites you, then I ask, how good are catchers around the league if none of the options are better than Zuke?  Seems to me that having a great hitting catcher is a luxury, not a necessity.  I'm just not cool with trading Plouffe (or anyone for that matter) for a worse overall player simply because we don't like the performance of our current catcher who must not be that terrible if you don't see any improvement through FA outside of Avila or Wieters.

 

[nicksaviking]

I'll admit that Pliuffe is a better player than I used to give him credit for, but to say his .313 OBP and league leading DP isn't a negative factor for a guy who generally bats in the 3-5 holes means we are truly OK with low expectation. I'll take his career best .765 OPS, but for a contending team we can aim a bit higher than that for the number 5 spot in the order. Arcia is getting destroyed in multiple threads and he has a career .741 OPS.

 

Also, to keep Plouffe probably means extending him, not sure I'm too hip to that.

[SwainZag]

 

If only one of the best ones in baseball had been a FA recently, and available for any team with lots of money to buy......oh, wait, he was.

 

With the position the Twins were in this current past offseason and the fact Suzuki was under contract for 2 more season they were never going to shell out that kind of money for 32 year old Russell Martin, zero chance of it happening.

[Halsey Hall]

 

Everyone is looking at a different Trevor Plouffe than you are. Everyone.

And THAT is their mistake. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

With the position the Twins were in this current past offseason and the fact Suzuki was under contract for 2 more season they were never going to shell out that kind of money for 32 year old Russell Martin, zero chance of it happening.

They extended Suzuki when they knew Martin was about to hit free agency.  That's not a valid excuse.  Many of us suggested they wait on re-signing Suzuki, specifically because Suzuki-level catchers or better are available every offseason and the Twins should have explored other options.

 

Actually, given the position the Twins were in (already committed to a lot of SPs, and few catching prospects anywhere in the org), signing Martin instead of extending Suzuki and signing Santana probably would have made a lot of sense, with similar financial implications.

[TheLeviathan]

Plouffe should be aggressively shopped this offseason.  He's a bit overrated around here, but he has some value that could be used to fix a glaring hole going forward.

 

I don't, however, feel forced to move him.

[Mike Sixel]

 

With the position the Twins were in this current past offseason and the fact Suzuki was under contract for 2 more season they were never going to shell out that kind of money for 32 year old Russell Martin, zero chance of it happening.

 

It is their fault they signed Suzuki, and not one of the 14 catchers who changed teams in the last two years that are currently better than him.

[SwainZag]

 

They extended Suzuki when they knew Martin was about to hit free agency.  That's not a valid excuse.  Many of us suggested they wait on re-signing Suzuki, specifically because Suzuki-level catchers or better are available every offseason and the Twins should have explored other options.

 

Actually, given the position the Twins were in (already committed to a lot of SPs, and few catching prospects anywhere in the org), signing Martin instead of extending Suzuki and signing Santana probably would have made a lot of sense, with similar financial implications.

 

Even if they didn't resign Suzuki (which I was against) the chances of them shelling out anywhere even close to the money Martin got was slim to none.

[USAFChief]

With the position the Twins were in this current past offseason and the fact Suzuki was under contract for 2 more season they were never going to shell out that kind of money for 32 year old Russell Martin, zero chance of it happening.

You say that like its a good thing.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'll admit that Pliuffe is a better player than I used to give him credit for, but to say his .313 OBP and league leading DP isn't a negative factor for a guy who generally bats in the 3-5 holes means we are truly OK with low expectation. I'll take his career best .765 OPS, but for a contending team we can aim a bit higher than that for the number 5 spot in the order. Arcia is getting destroyed in multiple threads and he has a career .741 OPS.

Also, to keep Plouffe probably means extending him, not sure I'm too hip to that.

 

Nick, I usually love your posts, but Plouffe doesn't play number 3-5 hitter, he plays 3B. And, compared to other 3B, he's been pretty valuable the last year or two and this year. Not elite, probably, but very good. And, Arcia? Arcia couldn't catch an old lady on crutches, let alone a line drive*.

 

*exaggeration for effect, he could probably catch the old lady**

 

**see, that was humor, not serious. But someone will pick that one line out of this post, and write 5 paragraphs on something that doesn't matter, ignoring the actual point of the post***

 

***probably not, actually, but you'd be surprised****

 

****I probably shouldn't make assumptions about what would surprise you

[Mike Sixel]

 

Even if they didn't resign Suzuki (which I was against) the chances of them shelling out anywhere even close to the money Martin got was slim to none.

 

That's kind of my issue with this FO, if you pay fair price for a Yugo, you still have a Yugo. There are no trophies for "most cost effective 78 win team".......

[USAFChief]

Plouffe should be aggressively shopped this offseason.  He's a bit overrated around here, but he has some value that could be used to fix a glaring hole going forward.

 

I don't, however, feel forced to move him.

One problem is they don't have much else to shop.

 

Any talk of trading from the minor leagues causes people around here to gasp.

 

Paying market rate for free agents the same.

 

That leaves trades. Who else can bring anything?

[SwainZag]

 

You say that like its a good thing.

 

No I say it like a realistic thing.  You can honestly look yourself in the face and think the Twins would have shelled out $85M dollars over 5 seasons for 32 year Russel Martin this past offseason?  Even without Suzuki in the picture, I just can't fathom that this would give that out.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

No I say it like a realistic thing.  You can honestly look yourself in the face and think the Twins would have shelled out $85M dollars over 5 seasons for 32 year Russel Martin this past offseason?  Even without Suzuki in the picture, I just can't fathom that this would give that out.  

They actually did shell out $55M dollars over 4 seasons for a 32 year old this past offseason, so I don't think it's that crazy.  And that was at a position where we already had other significant investments and major league caliber (or soon-to-be MLB caliber, i.e. Berrios) players.

 

The AAV difference was $3.25 mil, or half of Suzuki's annual salary.  The total guaranteed portion of Suzuki's extension would have almost exactly covered the difference over the first 4 years.

[Loosey]

 

I'm sorry to be so blunt but this is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.  Do you really think Mauer ( who is from Minnesota and has earned the No Trade clause ) would ever at the back end of his deal waive that clause to move to another state?  All his family is here, all his wife's family is here and he has twins that are maybe 2 years old?  You point out that maybe he could go to New York when Tex retires to take advantageof their short right field fence... Is Mauer a pull hitter????? No he isn't, so why would he ever want to do that?  Also, do you really think thesoft spoken Mauer would ever want to play in NY or Boston??  He's still one of the top hitter on the Twins roster right now.  The reason the Twins are in a slump right now is not because of just him.  Our entire team is playing like crap right now.  The starters can't pitch deep into games, the bullpen has blown up and none of our position players are hitting for average right now......Also, who in their right mind would actually take on Mauer's contract at this stage of his career....

I agree with all.  And to answer your last question at the end, the only team I could imagine taking on his contract would be Boston.  I think Mauer could get back to being a .330 hitter in Fenway just by slapping it to Left.  That being said, it will never happen.  He will never waive his clause and if he did I doubt Boston would even want him, they a just the only logical trade spot due to the field dimensions and their payroll capacity. 

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

 

One problem is they don't have much else to shop.

Any talk of trading from the minor leagues causes people around here to gasp.

Paying market rate for free agents the same.

That leaves trades. Who else can bring anything?

 

I think they're going to have to shop Kepler, Hicks, Rosario, Buxton, Arcia, etc.  They simply don't have enough OF spots for all these guys.  I love Kepler but I'd strongly consider moving him this year too.

 

I think our top trade chips this offseason are Plouffe, Kepler, and Polanco.

[Mike Sixel]

Agreed, and Plouffe and Polanco should be movable, and should garner good stuff in return. Without, imo, killing the current team*

 

*I assume there is not room for Sano, Mauer, Plouffe next year, and the first two aren't going anywhere.....

[jimmer]

So it seems many are in the trade Plouffe camp.

 

So, two questions:

 

1. Who can we realistically target for him alone?

 

2. If we package him with someone else (or more than one other). who should it be and who do we then target? ( I guess that's technically 3 questions:-))

[Mike Sixel]

 

So it seems many are in the trade Plouffe camp.

 

So, two questions:

 

1. Who can we realistically target for him alone?

 

2. If we package him with someone else (or more than one other). who should it be and who do we then target? ( I guess that's technically 3 questions:-))

 

I haven't looked enough to answer, but it has to be a SS or C that will be here and be good, by mid-next year timeline......not some guy far away, and not a RP (golly, no), and in a position of dire need......

[DocBauer]

First, who is going to break the news to the 22yo Sano that it has been decided the Twins, scouts, managers, coaches and more than a fee other baseball people and fans are wrong, he can't play 3B, should never play 3B ever again because he will never be able to play it on an average basis...which he more or less does now...and has no ability to improve. Yep, it's over kid, grab a 1B glove and hire someone to take a tire iron to Mauer's knee Kerigan style.

 

Second, I think Plouffe would indeed be a major upgrade for a lot of teams at 3B, overall. As stated, he doesn't play "cleanup hitter", he plays 3B, plays it quite well, can hit fairly well, and has some power and RBI ability. Those guys are about as rare these days as caters who do the same.

 

I'm OK with trading him for a catcher upgrade, but I also like he and Sano and Mauer rolling in to the 3B/1B/DH slots as well. Trading Plouffe might be that much easier to deal with were a quality DH signed.

 

Directly, or part of a 3 team deal, I'm not sure the Twins couldn't trade the enigmatic Arcia, Polano, Duffey amongst others and still make a successful trade while holding on to Plouffe.

[jimmer]

 

I haven't looked enough to answer, but it has to be a SS or C that will be here and be good, by mid-next year timeline......not some guy far away, and not a RP (golly, no), and in a position of dire need......

I think it's likely he's more valuable to us on the field than he will be as trade bait.  He's not  big name, he's not over the top great at any part of the game, he plays in a market where he doesn't get the exposure.  If we are moving him only because we need to play Sano there, I'm not sure that's enough of a reason.  He's averaged 3 WAR the last two seasons and this season isn't over yet.  There's value in that and we have few proven valuable players at the point.

 

Having said that, it would be interesting to see some ideas thrown out there as possibilities. 

[USAFChief]

I would start by targeting a youngish catcher.

 

I think that probably best combines need and lack of internal candidates.

 

I don't have a name, though.

[Mike Sixel]

If I thought there was any way Mauer wasn't here next year.....no way I'd trade Plouffe......

[jimmer]

 

If I thought there was any way Mauer wasn't here next year.....no way I'd trade Plouffe......

I honestly wish Mauer would waive his no trade clause at this point.  Not because I think it would necessarily help the team (because I have my doubts), but because I hope a change of scenery would be good for him at this point.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I think it's likely he's more valuable to us on the field than he will be as trade bait.  He's not  big name, he's not over the top great at any part of the game, he plays in a market where he doesn't get the exposure.  If we are moving him only because we need to play Sano there, I'm not sure that's enough of a reason.  He's averaged 3 WAR the last two seasons and this season isn't over yet.  There's value in that and we have few proven valuable players at the point.

 

Having said that, it would be interesting to see some ideas thrown out there as possibilities. 

 

I am confused by the contradiction of putting up good WAR (or whatever measure of value), and he won't return enough in trade because of all that other stuff that no GM would care about......

 

I am fairly confident Plouffe alone is enough to return a AA/AAA catcher with value (or SS) to this team as early as next year. Now, whether they can find one or not, I have no idea.

 

IMO, Sano+new catcher + Arcia at DH>>>>Sano+Suzuki+Plouffe.

 

[jimmer]

 

I am confused by the contradiction of putting up good WAR (or whatever measure of value), and he won't return enough in trade because of all that other stuff that no GM would care about......

 

I am fairly confident Plouffe alone is enough to return a AA/AAA catcher with value (or SS) to this team as early as next year. Now, whether they can find one or not, I have no idea.

 

IMO, Sano+new catcher + Arcia at DH>>>>Sano+Suzuki+Plouffe.

I'm not saying I am right by any stretch.  It's just my opinion.  He gets no love, anywhere.  So it makes me wonder how he is thought of by people in the game.  I could be way off though.  We may find out.  If we do trade him, I hope I'm wrong

 

Plus, you know, it's TR doing the trading.

[TheLeviathan]

I think my top target is Andrew Susac from San Fran.  He may be a guy you'd have more luck shopping Kepler to get.

 

After that here are some guys I consider, in no particular order:

 

Adeinny Hechavarria (the kid can pick it, so if we can't hit at the position we might as well field it)

 

Wilmer Flores (buy low candidate maybe?)

 

Ask the Padres who they want to keep - Norris or Hedges and target the other

 

Ask the Mets who they want to keep - Palwecki or d'Arnaud and target the other

 

Ask the A's about Phegley

 

Ask the Cubs about Montero

 

Those are just a few thoughts, not particularly devoted to any of them, but seem like possibilities.

[h2oface]

Always folks wanting to trade Plouffe. You culture a player, patience pays off, and then you don't want him anymore right when he is what you have always hoped he would be. Then the team is always strangers. Stats and strangers. I guess that is the way now. I don't have to like it. I can't help myself being a Twins' fan, even though I might not like the players that don't really seam like Twins.