When does Terry Ryan do something about this offense?

[DaveW]

Every other org in baseball that is "in it" has no problem calling up top prospects, meanwhile good old conservative terry Ryan lets us watch players like Robinson etc hack there way through at bats against our divisional rivals.

At what point does he actually show a tiny bit of aggressiveness and call up Buxton?

[Linus]

Stick a fork in him.....

[Danchat]

I dunno, an outfield of Rosario, Hicks, and Hunter (eventually Arcia?) isn't that bad. Things were looking pretty bleak at the beginning of the season and now we're much better. I don't think it's quite time for Buxton yet.

[SwainZag]

I think the problem is you see the Twins as "in it" while TR and many people....like myself....see this as an evolving club and would rather let players mature and develop before forcing them up to the show before the mid-way point in June.

[DocBauer]

I think the problem is you see the Twins as "in it" while TR and many people....like myself....see this as an evolving club and would rather let players mature and develop before forcing them up to the show before the mid-way point in June.

THIS.

 

It's one thing to enjoy your ball club doing well.....unexpectedly well.....and want them to keep it up. But it's something very different to expect your entire AA club to fix or save your season. I exaggerate, but I swear I've seen half the Lookouts roster listed as various sudden promotions to fix one ailment or another, or potential ailment, or pending catastrophe after a slump.

 

Heck, the way we're going here, Jay and Gonsalves should be up around the All Star break to fix the LH side of the bullpen. They can throw hard strikes and transition to the rotation via the bullpen.

 

Remember how Burdi was supposes to break camp with the Twins this year and become a dominant set up man?

 

Sometimes, you have to enjoy your team's rebuild going better than planned, deal with a slump or two, which happens to the best of teams in any year, and show a little patience while the talented youngsters...oh so seemingly close...get a little closer.

[TheLeviathan]

If they are going to do something it should be to add outside talent, not rushing prospects if they aren't ready.

[Kwak]

The Tigers have just had a meltdown--but are they out of it?  Should they panic?  The Twins got beat by a better team (whoa, do you mean the Twins can't always play the down-n-outers?), and close a 1-5 homestand.  Hmm, they started the season with a 1-5 mark, yet made a big turnaround!  

 

No, I don't think this Twins team will be in it for the whole season, at least they showed that the team isn't terrible and can actually win (more than half) for awhile.  The "prospects" need improvement.  The early batches have been mostly failures with the successes taking many a scuffed knee or elbow.  Later batches, (those who are up-and-down now) that many posters guaranteed success--yeah they are being bruised--and they need more time.  And the "promised saviors"?  They are in Tennessee and not only is more time needed to test the present batch of "prospects"--those guys need more time too.

[DuluthFan]

The Twins top prospects are in the minors for a reason. They need playing time so they can develop. They will not get it at the major league level. All of the starting positions have been taken. The only 'available' spots on the 25 man roster are for back ups and bench players that play once or twice a week. A prospect cannot learn his position sitting on the bench.

 

There is a reason why Hermann, Nunez and Robinson are on the roster. It doesn't matter that they only play sparingly because they are not expected to reach a higher potential. They have nothing more to learn. Playing more will not improve their upside. They have already reached their potential. They're upside IS as a backup player. Their future development will not be affected. Their true value with the team is to keep the prospects IN the minors learning their position so they can actually reach their potential. The minor leagues is the place to learn and develop your baseball skills, not the major leagues.

 

 

 

[jokin]

The Tigers have just had a meltdown--but are they out of it?  Should they panic?  The Twins got beat by a better team (whoa, do you mean the Twins can't always play the down-n-outers?), and close a 1-5 homestand.  Hmm, they started the season with a 1-5 mark, yet made a big turnaround!  

 

No, I don't think this Twins team will be in it for the whole season, at least they showed that the team isn't terrible and can actually win (more than half) for awhile.  The "prospects" need improvement.  The early batches have been mostly failures with the successes taking many a scuffed knee or elbow.  Later batches, (those who are up-and-down now) that many posters guaranteed success--yeah they are being bruised--and they need more time.  And the "promised saviors"?  They are in Tennessee and not only is more time needed to test the present batch of "prospects"--those guys need more time too.

Funny... I can't recall one poster talking about "guarantees" or "saviors" currently in Tennessee, or even Rochester ... (but I do recall many that noticed that they have more talented players than Robinson, Bernier, Schafer, Stauffer, Boyer, etc. YES... all many are simply asking is just to play the percentages and put the best team on the field--- For example... Intentionally crippling your offense by sending down players when they're on a .950 OPS hitting run is what many would define as idiotic. Carrying 13 pitchers, at least two of whom, who can't get anyone out, plus another Rule 5 guy, instead of at least 3 different players who can actually help to win a ballgame, many would define as not smart... not having a good RHPH available for a rookie LH vs a top LHRP with the game on the line, many would define as not smart... )

[DaveW]

THIS.

 

It's one thing to enjoy your ball club doing well.....unexpectedly well.....and want them to keep it up. But it's something very different to expect your entire AA club to fix or save your season. I exaggerate, but I swear I've seen half the Lookouts roster listed as various sudden promotions to fix one ailment or another, or potential ailment, or pending catastrophe after a slump.

 

Heck, the way we're going here, Jay and Gonsalves should be up around the All Star break to fix the LH side of the bullpen. They can throw hard strikes and transition to the rotation via the bullpen.

 

Remember how Burdi was supposes to break camp with the Twins this year and become a dominant set up man?

 

Sometimes, you have to enjoy your team's rebuild going better than planned, deal with a slump or two, which happens to the best of teams in any year, and show a little patience while the talented youngsters...oh so seemingly close...get a little closer.

Nobody is saying you need to bring up the whole AA roster, the twins however are 1/3rd of the season in and still "in it", talk patience all you want for a rebuild but the twins have been a dumpster fire for the past several years before 2015, how many years should a team with a 90-105 million dollar payroll be patient? 5 years? 6? 10?

 

Nunez is awful

Stauffer is terrible (and gone mercifully)

Robinson is awful

duensing needs to accept a trip to AAA

Hermann is worse then Butera

 

There is literally no excuse for these players to be on this current roster.

[DocBauer]

Nunez is awful

Stauffer is terrible (and gone mercifully)

Robinson is awful

duensing needs to accept a trip to AAA

Hermann is worse then Butera

There is literally no excuse for these players to be on this current roster.

Going to disagree somewhat. IMO, decent 25th man who can hit w/lil pop and be OK-ish at various spots

Yes! Something just always felt wrong about his signing. He needed to go.

Yes again. Poor dead horse...but...shouldn't have been in this situation anyway. AAAA

I'd stick with Duensing for now. History says rebound candidate second half. Pen could really use it.

Not sure about that. Actually like him better and like his defense. Pinto never should have been sent down.

 

I believe the absolute best thing that could happen to the Twins lineup...overall...is:

A: Buxton makes it up at some point, and despite no instant stardom, grabs lead off and keeps it.

B: Polanco pretty much does the same thing in the #2 hole.

 

Now, I know that's a lot of pressure riding on two young guys, but think what it does for the rest of the lineup the remainder of this season and going in to next. We can debate, project, argue and hope as to Mauer the rest of this year and going forward, but whether he is in the 3 spot or not, Dozier gets to slide down to an RBI position where he should be even more valuable. Hunter, (for now), Plouffe, Sano, (eventually), Vargas, Arcia, Rosario and the previously mentioned Dozier and Mauer fill out and bulk up the lineup 3-7. How much better does Suzuki look hitting 8th or 9th with, say, Hicks.

 

The problem, still, comes down to readiness and patience.

[howeda7]

Buxton is not needed as long as Hicks is competent. However, Pinto should be up over Hermann at a minimum. And outside help should be an option, but outside of last year with Morales, that usually means Brett Boone to Terry Ryan.

[jokin]

Buxton is not needed as long as Hicks is competent. However, Pinto should be up over Hermann at a minimum. And outside help should be an option, but outside of last year with Morales, that usually means Brett Boone to Terry Ryan.

74 OPS+ (by Hicks) is certainly not competent enough.

Pinto is an absolute mess right now (.123/.167/.263 in his last 60 PAs).

 

Buxton, Polanco and Sano are the best in-house options that have the best possibility to make a difference.

 

Weiters or Lucroy could probably be had if Terry were willing to pony up and pull the trigger.

[SwainZag]

 

74 OPS+ (by Hicks) is certainly not competent enough.
Pinto is an absolute mess right now (.123/.167/.263 in his last 60 PAs).

Buxton, Polanco and Sano are the best in-house options that have the best possibility to make a difference.

Weiters or Lucroy could probably be had if Terry were willing to pony up and pull the trigger.

 

What about Buxton's 270/336/473 line in AA tells you he is the best in house option? Even if he is the current best in house option, for a guy who is one of the most talented prospects on the planet, those are low numbers. 

 

Our buddy Aaron Hicks, which everyone loves to rip apart, was hitting 330/415/561 a level higher than Buxton is at right now.  I understand he's a big prospect, but why has it become a forgone conclusion that jumping from AA to the pros is some easy some easy conversion? 

 

If this were September and the Twins were "in it" I would have a different view, but it's June, and not even towards the end of June yet.

 

 

[jokin]

What about Buxton's 270/336/473 line in AA tells you he is the best in house option? Even if he is the current best in house option, for a guy who is one of the most talented prospects on the planet, those are low numbers.

After tonight, Buxton actually has a .274/.340/.475 (.815) line for the season. That tells me a lot, they certainly are not "low numbers", but actually near the top for all SL OFers.

 

Besides that, you need to throw out much of the April numbers, as Buxton was overcoming rust and pain from a lost 2014 season and multiple injuries. From 4/9 to 4/26, Buxton's line was:

 

.192/.254/.345/(.599)

 

From 4/27 through 6/10 (nearly 200 PAs):

 

.302/.377/.523/(.900)

 

These numbers are elite, and more like Buxton's potential hit tool going forward, plus he immediately provides the additional benefit of adding an instant elite defender as he makes the adjustment to big league pitching.

 

No one says it's going to be an easy conversion to big league pitching, but have you got a better potential in-house offensive option besides Sano, who went through a similar hitting metamorphosis to Buxton? The numbers you tout for Hicks were after two major league failures, and on his 3rd trip to AAA, along with 2 stops at AA. Buxton aint Hicks- as much as Hicks looks better at the plate right now, it's hard to imagine that Buxton, who ZiPS projects at 95 OPS+, wouldn't be able to beat Hicks' OPS+ number of 74 and provide better defense besides.

[DaveW]

Fwiw .815 would be the 2nd best OPS on this team.

 

Buxton is ready for a call up, not a doubt in my mind.

[Ncgo4]

Buxton in CF is a no brainer at this very moment. Much better defense much better hitting, much much better base running and waaaay better power. Sano to third and Plouffe to 1st is equally a no-brainer. A first baseman hitting 2nd and projecting 5 HRs, a 260 BA, 65 RBIs and leading the team in DPs? You gotta be kidding me!

 

The real question is what if Ryan does nothing and pitching returns to last year's form? You'll be able to rent center field for weddings during the 7th inning stretch. I hope these are the pitchers we thought we were getting, but I'm not heading to Vegas to bet on it.

 

Another 10 games like the last 7 and the sh*t storm will be well under way. Let's hope it doesn't happen, but stay away from your bookie if you think the last week was just a bump in the road.

[Platoon]

Stick a fork in him.....

That quote might end up on Daves tombstone. Lol

[Platoon]

It took KC a long time to get all their talent to produce. Every prospect we have brought up has struggled, and likely will. There's going to be an acclimation period for all. Treading water with the current roster is wasting time. Standings aside, if you have Suzuki in the 5 hole, and not one PH on the bench, you are in essence treading water. And there are only two outcomes to extended water treading. Someone comes to help you or......................

[stringer bell]

Instead of comparing Buxton and Hicks, compare Rosario and Hicks. They were at the same level and Hicks' numbers were superior, however Rosario was called first and hit much better in the majors.  Why? Perhaps the skills possessed by Rosario more readily translate to success than those of Hicks. I believe Buxton would supply more extra bases than Hicks with any other improvements being negligible, but there is no way to know.

[Kwak]

 

Nobody is saying you need to bring up the whole AA roster, the twins however are 1/3rd of the season in and still "in it", talk patience all you want for a rebuild but the twins have been a dumpster fire for the past several years before 2015, how many years should a team with a 90-105 million dollar payroll be patient? 5 years? 6? 10?

Nunez is awful
Stauffer is terrible (and gone mercifully)
Robinson is awful
duensing needs to accept a trip to AAA
Hermann is worse then Butera

There is literally no excuse for these players to be on this current roster.

And yet these guys aren't responsible for the losing streak.  Changing the butts on the bench won't solve anything.

[drock2190]

Instead of comparing Buxton and Hicks, compare Rosario and Hicks. They were at the same level and Hicks' numbers were superior, however Rosario was called first and hit much better in the majors. Why? Perhaps the skills possessed by Rosario more readily translate to success than those of Hicks. I believe Buxton would supply more extra bases than Hicks with any other improvements being negligible, but there is no way to know.

Yeah except Rosario has a 30% strikeout rate and 2% walk rate.

 

He's basically Danny Santana with a less speed and a bit more pop.

 

The fall will not be graceful unless he starts taking better at bats

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Hermann is worse then Butera

There is literally no excuse for these players to be on this current roster.

Suzuki is as bad with the bat, and neither Suzuki or Hermann catch nearly as well as Butera. I was roundly approving when they let Butera go. Now...

[FanFanatic]

 

I believe the absolute best thing that could happen to the Twins lineup...overall...is:
A: Buxton makes it up at some point, and despite no instant stardom, grabs lead off and keeps it.
B: Polanco pretty much does the same thing in the #2 hole.

 

I disagree.  You don't put stress on a rookie by placing him in the #1 or #2 hole.  You bring them up, put them at #8 or #9.  Let them get comfortable hitting ML pitching, then inch them forward as the progress.  Putting Hicks at lead off was one of the worst moves of the Gardy era and showed his inability to handle young players.

[Linus]

 

And yet these guys aren't responsible for the losing streak.  Changing the butts on the bench won't solve anything.

This.  If we are talking about contending this year, it has everything to do with Dozier, Mauer, Plouffe and Hunter not a bunch of scrubs and unproven prospects.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

And yet these guys aren't responsible for the losing streak.  Changing the butts on the bench won't solve anything.

putting Suzuki on the bench would absolutely help win games. Having a bench bat would absolutely help win games. Having a full staff of competent relievers would absolutely help win games. Every player on the 25 man roster must contribute fairly regularly.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

This.  If we are talking about contending this year, it has everything to do with Dozier, Mauer, Plouffe and Hunter not a bunch of scrubs and unproven prospects.

Dozier Plouffe and Hunter were the reasons this team had any offense at all. It's getting better players than the scrubs around them that needs to happen.

[Kwak]

 

Funny... I can't recall one poster talking about "guarantees" or "saviors" currently in Tennessee, or even Rochester ... (but I do recall many that noticed that they have more talented players than Robinson, Bernier, Schafer, Stauffer, Boyer, etc. YES... all many are simply asking is just to play the percentages and put the best team on the field--- For example... Intentionally crippling your offense by sending down players when they're on a .950 OPS hitting run is what many would define as idiotic. Carrying 13 pitchers, at least two of whom, who can't get anyone out, plus another Rule 5 guy, instead of at least 3 different players who can actually help to win a ballgame, many would define as not smart... not having a good RHPH available for a rookie LH vs a top LHRP with the game on the line, many would define as not smart... )

Nonsense, the screaming for promotions from the minors is deafening--like this thread.  Or, any of the threads about Sano, or Buxton.  Then there's Vargas, Arcia, Pinto, Polanco... .  The tone was clear--"the Twins need (name here) to fix the middle of the line-up, or become a regular DH ("who mashes")... .  Everybody and anybody who has done anything in the minors as a hitter has had at least one thread developed on:  "why (name here) will fix the problems and add multiple wins over-and-above whoever is holding done the suggested position for (name here).  You can't deny these threads--you have posted on them too.  Losing 5 of 6 isn't a disaster--and it certainly doesn't call for sweep of the line-up.  

[Mike Sixel]

They were lucky to win before. instead of building on that luck, they are standing still. If you all think rookies need to acclimate, why not this year, so they are ready next year? Or is next year the acclimation year, and more lising, and we wait until 2017?

[DocBauer]

I disagree. You don't put stress on a rookie by placing him in the #1 or #2 hole. You bring them up, put them at #8 or #9. Let them get comfortable hitting ML pitching, then inch them forward as the progress. Putting Hicks at lead off was one of the worst moves of the Gardy era and showed his inability to handle young players.

You are correct sir!

 

But if your roll is slowed a bit when reading what I stated, you will see where I spoke of pressure and being impractical and the such. I was referring to what would be best for the team and lineup going forward...ideally. Of course you don't put that kind of pressure and responsibility on rookies. BUT, if they can get some time and work in, and actually take over those top two spots as I mentioned, WOW, what it does for us moving forward.