Nunez Activated, Vargas Optioned

[dxpavelka]

 

What does Bernier offer? At least Vargas is a PH option late in a game where you really could use a bomb.

Not a damn thing.  A poor man's version of both Escobar and Nunez with a bit less versatility.  WTF?

[drivlikejehu]

I can't wait for the creative excuses we will see when the Twins start paying the price for filling their roster with replacement level (or below) players. 

[Squirrel]

I would be curious, though, to have an idea of whose, well, idea this was mostly ... was this more a Ryan move or a Molitor request or the two hashing it out together? Not sure what knowing would change in my mind, but I'm still curious as to how, why, even though I'll never know.

[jokin]

 

Why? Weren't you harping about Boyer and Thompson? (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Look how they turned out. I personally think that this front office knows what they are doing, especially Terry Ryan. The move may seem odd, but I think that they want Vargas to actually know how to field his position, it seems like he is almost immobile at times, and we need interchangeable parts.

 

Let's revisit Boyer and Thompson at the end of the season.

 

Regarding Vargas, the Twins are in a NL park the next two games, and then face the now red-hot White Sox in Chicago.  The Sox have won 5 straight, and 9 of 12 since getting swept by the Twins.  Funny, but I don't see Bernier's glove being as much of a difference maker over the next 5 games like Vargas' bat could be.  There is no way in defending this, it's a dumb move to reward Bernier with a service medal.

[Platoon]

Why? Weren't you harping about Boyer and Thompson? (Please correct me if I am wrong.) Look how they turned out. I personally think that this front office knows what they are doing, especially Terry Ryan. The move may seem odd, but I think that they want Vargas to actually know how to field his position, it seems like he is almost immobile at times, and we need interchangeable parts.

If they could teach someone to be more mobile, I would have run the 440 in the Olympics. I think he knows how to field his position, he just is not athletic enough. He is basically a DH, a position which the AL offers. Other teams try and find that type of hitter, and that's where they leave him. Most teams don't shuffle light hitting utility hitters into the DH spot to get AB"s. You want to give Mauer a day off his feet? Move Plouffe over there, and put one of our many utility players at third. It showcases his flexibility. If one does the math, something is going to have to give in the next year with Sano and Buxton and Polanco making moves necessary.

[Platoon]

I would be curious, though, to have an idea of whose, well, idea this was mostly ... was this more a Ryan move or a Molitor request or the two hashing it out together? Not sure what knowing would change in my mind, but I'm still curious as to how, why, even though I'll never know.

So would I.

[Hrbowski]

 

If they could teach someone to be more mobile, I would have run the 440 in the Olympics. I think he knows how to field his position, he just is not athletic enough. He is basically a DH, a position which the AL offers. Other teams try and find that type of hitter, and that's where they leave him. Most teams don't shuffle light hitting utility hitters into the DH spot to get AB"s. You want to give Mauer a day off his feet? Move Plouffe over there, and put one of our many utility players at third. It showcases his flexibility. If one does the math, something is going to have to give in the next year with Sano and Buxton and Polanco making moves necessary.

 I think that Arcia will be the DH when he comes off the DL, and it makes little sense to have two designated hitters on the roster.

[spinowner]

 

except that capps is four years older.

Of course. But what I thought went without saying is that we needed immediate help and the Nats needed deferred help. Any trade is best judged in hindsight but we don't have that luxury when the trade is made. Again, I thought at the time the trade was made that it was a good one for both sides.

[h2oface]

The Nats have taken us twice. Ramos for Capps and Span for Meyer. 

 

[jorgenswest]

I can't get myself to view moves as reward/punishment. I trust Molitor's assessment off Vargas's need in developing his approach at the plate. It isn't punishment. It is development of a player who has never played AAA.

 

I also don't see it yet as a choice between Bernier and Vargas for the 6 AL games in the span before Vargas can return. I can at least wait until the White Sox series before questioning Molitor on this one. By then another move may have happened making this discussion meaningless.

[Platoon]

 I think that Arcia will be the DH when he comes off the DL, and it makes little sense to have two designated hitters on the roster.

This would be a typical Twins decision, bring in Hunter to go from 72 wins to 80?? And slow the development of the future. And this is not a commentary on Hunter, it's a point about having some vision of the future, instead of treading water in the present.

[jokin]

 

I can't get myself to view moves as reward/punishment. I trust Molitor's assessment off Vargas's need in developing his approach at the plate. It isn't punishment. It is development of a player who has never played AAA.

I also don't see it yet as a choice between Bernier and Vargas for the 6 AL games in the span before Vargas can return. I can at least wait until the White Sox series before questioning Molitor on this one. By then another move may have happened making this discussion meaningless.

 

You (and Molitor, and Ryan) still haven't made the case for why Bernier should still be on the    25-man roster.... over anybody at this point with Nunez back... what magical mystery move you speak of is in the offing?

[jokin]

 

 

Of course. But what I thought went without saying is that we needed immediate help and the Nats needed deferred help. Any trade is best judged in hindsight but we don't have that luxury when the trade is made. Again, I thought at the time the trade was made that it was a good one for both sides.

 

There were better RP options if the price was destined to be Ramos.     At the time,  I thought that what "it goes without saying"   was that you don't trade a can't-miss position player, especially a catcher, for a questionable relief pitcher.

[spinowner]

As I've said in past threads I think the goal for the Twins organization for the 2015 season should be to prepare their best young prospects as well as possible to contend in 2016 and beyond. All else is secondary in importance. I'm guessing they feel that Vargas will improve as a player more quickly in AAA than in the majors, and if that's the case then that's where he needs to be. If the Twins lose a couple more games this year as a result, so what? Of all the statistics to consider, the least important statistic is the major league team's 2015 W-L record.

[Hrbowski]

 

You (and Molitor, and Ryan) still haven't made the case for why Bernier should still be on the    25-man roster.... over anybody at this point with Nunez back... what magical mystery move you speak of is in the offing?

I never said he should be, I want Ryan Wheeler.

[jorgenswest]

You (and Molitor, and Ryan) still haven't made the case for why Bernier should still be on the 25-man roster.... over anybody at this point with Nunez back... what magical mystery move you speak of is in the offing?

I think I was clear that I don't see these as connected. All of my comments are about Vargas and Molitor's stated need for him to go to AAA. I trust Molitor's assessment.

 

The Twins play Chicago on Friday. By then Pinto or Arcia may be on the roster instead of Bernier. If not, I can join in then on questioning the need to have Bernier on the roster.

[jokin]

 

I never said he should be, I want Ryan Wheeler.

As you can see from whom I responsed to, my query was directed at Jorgen, not you.

[Hrbowski]

 

As you can see from whom I responsed to, my query was directed at Jorgen, not you.

I thought that I should throw my two cents in there just in case you thought I wanted Bernier in the big leagues.

[jokin]

 

 

I think I was clear that I don't see these as connected. All of my comments are about Vargas and Molitor's stated need for him to go to AAA. I trust Molitor's assessment.

The Twins play Chicago on Friday. By then Pinto or Arcia may be on the roster instead of Bernier. If not, I can join in then on questioning the need to have Bernier on the roster.

 

Barring injury, the Twins usually don't have a player join them in the middle of a road trip, and in the case of Arcia, I think    there's a very strong chance he's going to need a rehab assignment before he is activated.    Vargas hits from both sides of the plate, he is clearly the best bet over the next 5 games, I do question the decision-making here.    It seems possible that there's something we don't know about that precipitated this move.

[curt1965]

I think I have figured out why these moves were made today after the game: Ryan and Mollie were both embarrassed by the 11-3 loss, and realized that the poor TD fans had nothing to do on a stormy, Sunday night, so they figured "let's make a crazy, ridiculous transaction so everyone will forget how sh**** we looked today!"

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think that Arcia will be the DH when he comes off the DL, and it makes little sense to have two designated hitters on the roster.

Then demote Vargas then. Why now?

 

Is there even a timetable for Arcia's return yet?

 

Might as well demote a SP now too, Ervin Santana will be back in a month and a half...

[jokin]

 

I thought that I should throw my two cents in there just in case you thought I wanted Bernier in the big leagues.

 

I admire Bernier as much as any Twins fan for hanging in there all of these years and playing a quality defensive infielder, but I would hope the vast majority understand that this is not the time or place for Doug to be on a major league roster.

[Craig Arko]

I would be curious, though, to have an idea of whose, well, idea this was mostly ... was this more a Ryan move or a Molitor request or the two hashing it out together? Not sure what knowing would change in my mind, but I'm still curious as to how, why, even though I'll never know.

They probably followed the time-honored tradition since the club's inception: ask Sid what to do.

[Winston Smith]

What does Bernier offer?

Diversity, a French guy on the roster?

[Siehbiscuit]

2B - Dozier*

1B - Mauer*

RF - Hunter

3B - Plouffe*

DH - Vargas*

LF - Arcia**

C - Suzuki***

CF - Hicks**

SS - Santana**

 

Bench: IF/OF Escobar***, 4th OF Robinson, C Pinto***

 

*Plays everyday

**Plays every DAMN day

*** should get >250 PA

 

Is it really a loss if we lost Nunez, Bernier or Shafer? Since their all out of options DFA them and hopefully they can make it through waivers. If not, Polanco or Beresford (he's hit .298, .271 and currently .321 at AAA the last three years) are more than capable call ups.

 

Rosario should go back to AAA as he needs to play somewhere everyday, but so do Arcia and Hicks. We need our best players on the MLB 25 man. We can assemble a roster out of fear of losing a Bernier to waivers.

 

This team CAN win, but roster management mistakes like this are unacceptable. Vargas has hit his way out of his slump no he's rewarded with a ticket to Rochester.

 

Don't get me started on the bullpen situation either.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think Bernier has options and would not be lost on waivers by simply being sent to Rochester.

 

Don't know if that makes your argument better or worse...

[h2oface]

 

I think Bernier has options and would not be lost on waivers by simply being sent to Rochester.

Don't know if that makes your argument better or worse...

A 34 year old with options? After playing every year in the minors since 2002 and in the majors with Colorado in 2008 and with the Twins in 2013, 2014, and now 2015? 

[USAFChief]

As I've said in past threads I think the goal for the Twins organization for the 2015 season should be to prepare their best young prospects as well as possible to contend in 2016 and beyond. All else is secondary in importance. I'm guessing they feel that Vargas will improve as a player more quickly in AAA than in the majors, and if that's the case then that's where he needs to be. If the Twins lose a couple more games this year as a result, so what? Of all the statistics to consider, the least important statistic is the major league team's 2015 W-L record.

Non concur. Strongly.

 

The team's W-L record is the least important thing?

 

It is the ONLY thing that matters. The goal is to win games, to get to the postseason, and to win the WS.

 

Developing prospects is secondary to that, always.

 

They are currently over .500. In contention for a wildcard. Improving on that should be the ONLY thing they worry about.

 

If they get to a point where winning isn't possible, fine, make some moves with only the future in mind, at the expense of the present.

 

But if management is not worrying primarily about 2015 right now, every single one should be fired. And for the record, I doubt they are thinking about 2016 right now.

 

And while I'm on a good rant, please explain what Doug Bernier on the roster does for 2016.

[jorgenswest]

Molitor states that Vargas needs to work on a consistent approach at the plate. He sees something that he feels that can be addressed in AAA. Is it possible that Molitor and Twins are sending him to AAA betting on an improved Vargas will help benefit this 2015 team? Maybe Molitor is wrong about Vargas, his approach and whether it can be fixed. At this point, I trust his judgement.

 

The Red Wings have 11 games in the same span the Twins have 8 games with only 6 in need of a DH. There isn't going to be a better time in the schedule to send him to AAA.

[Bark's Lounge]

It's quite apparent that this will be a short lived demotion. Vargas needs to play, he'll be back in 2-3 weeks. If he was not a DH/1B (emphasis on DH), this would not have happened. I will say, that I am not a huge fan of the move, but maybe the Twins want to get Arcia back in the fold as a DH and see what they have in Rosario for a few weeks more. The outfield D has looked a lot better with Rosie and Hicks.