Rockies seek pitching for Outfielder

[Rosterman]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/01/rockies-offering-charlie-blackmon-for-pitching.html

 

The Rockies, who have a difficult time, attracting free agent pitching are supposedly dangling outfielder Charlie Blackmon out there for a starter.

 

Is this a guy the Twins should look at. Can play both corners, also centerfield. Could be centerfield for now and move to a corner when Hunter leaves next year. Would also supply backup potential at designated hitter if Vargas falters.

 

Do you dangle Kyle Gibson, perhaps, and a low level prospect for Blackmon. 

 

In the grand scheme of things, the Twins have Hughes, Santana, Nolasco locked into the rotation. They have Milone, Meyer, May, Pelfrey fighting for one spot, now they would fight for two. You still have Rogers and Darnell as backup in the minors, with Berrios and maybe even Stewart waiting to make a temporary splash.

 

Would you trade Gibson for three years of Blackmon, who will enter arbitration after this season.

 

I always considered Gibson sorta an odd man out, especially if he retains or even improves his value. I don't see him ever slotting as a number one or two, even though he could elevate himself into, say, a Tapani or Radke status at the very most. But don't see the need to take that gamble. He has to have some worth, as he showed what he can do in his second round in the majors, is still fairly young, under team control, and can be a potential 200-inning guy.

 

But I actually see him as the odd man out, if not next year, at least by 2017. Trading him this off-season would open up opportunities for Meyer and May and still have the potential to not waste Milone or Pelfrey if they show life in spring training.

 

 

[TheLeviathan]

One look at those splits is all I needed to see.

[nicksaviking]

One look at those splits is all I needed to see.

Yup, I'd offer um, Logan Darnell? His road OPS looks like what you expect from your defensive minded back up catcher.

[nytwinsfan]

I'd offer them May (which they wouldn't do), but probably not Gibson.

[nicksaviking]

I'd offer them May (which they wouldn't do), but probably not Gibson.

His road OPS last year was .617. Aaron Hicks' was .615.

[jokin]

Yup, I'd offer um, Logan Darnell? His road OPS looks like what you expect from your defensive minded back up catcher.

 

Let's just make it for Mike Pelfrey and call it a day?

[Thrylos]

About those road splits:

 

Career: .243/.272/.356

This is Butera territory.   Gibson and a prospect?  Sure, if they throw in Jon Gray and David Dahl.

[ashbury]

Let's just make it for Mike Pelfrey and call it a day?

Throw in Nolasco as a sweetener.

[jorgenswest]

The Twins don't have good starting pitching to spare and it is going to take more than mediocre starting pitching to get Blackmon following last year.

[Ben B]

Road OPS last year .617. Second-half OPS .698 (including at home). His season numbers look nice because of a scorching April, but he's pretty mediocre. 

 

He played a lot of center last year, so if his defense is decent maybe he'd be OK as a stop-gap for Buxton. But I sure wouldn't give up much. 

[Linus]

I'm not the world's biggest May fan and I wouldn't trade him for Blackmon.  the idea of trading Gibson for him is, um, a really bad idea.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I value what the Twins have more than what Blackmon can offer. Pass

[Major League Ready]

Milone?

[ashbury]

he could elevate himself into, say, a Tapani or Radke status at the very most.

Radke, the guy who racked up 148 wins and 45 WAR (depending on what your taste in counting stats is), whose career 113 ERA+ ranks him tied for 246th all-time among pitchers with enough innings?

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/earned_run_avg_plus_career.shtml

 

At the very most?  So, no legitimate shot at the HoF, you're saying.  Quite the restrictive ceiling you've placed on the young man Gibson.

 

[ScottyB]

Sounds good - kinda like Garza for Young.  In other words - mistake, mistake, mistake.  Let's just keep Schafer for now.  Average OF'ers can always be found on the waiver wire (see Fuld, Mastroianni and Schafer).  Average or better pitching - not so much.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Milone?

 

I'd probably do this.  Sounds like it would be a fair trade, but given the splits mentioned above, this is as high as I'd go.

 

As for Gibson, I have a feeling he's being traded at the deadline or this offseason.  Someone will have to be traded if May continues to improve and Meyer has a decent year in AAA, and I highly doubt that it will be Santana (1st season) or Hughes.  Nolasco might be that guy if he has a decent season.  If Gibson has a reasonable improvement on this last season, it will be interesting to see what he fetches.  I'd imagine it would be a decent return.

[shs_59]

When i first read the piece, i thought "more that one teams" i immediately thought of the Twins.

 

 I've got it.    Ricky Nolasco and 6 Million dollars for Charlie Blackmon.

 

 

So essentially the Rox would only owe Nolasco $ 10 M a yr for the next 3 yrs.

 

If it takes somebody like a Alex Meyer i'd be in the "NO WAY" camp on that.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

Milone?

Fuld for Milone for Fuld 2.0

[Linus]

Can we just sign Colby Rasmus to a short term deal and be done with this?  Even if we have to overpay a little it solves the biggest remaining problem.  With a competent CF this team would hang in contention for the second wild card spot most of next year.  Plus, it allows Hicks to start in AAA to try and salvage his career and puts Schafer in the 4th outfielder spot.

 

All would be right in Twins world.....

[Platoon]

If they had not signed Hunter, this discussion would be more pertinent. But he and Arcia will keep the corners filled and Hicks or Shafer will hold down center. And you have Rosario in the wings. Then we get to the pitching! We have had the worst SP in MLB for 4 years running. We have 2 seemingly distinct groups: veteran run of the mill types (Hughes a possible exception TBD) and promising youth with big arms. The veterans will never yield a satisfactory return, and this is a team which really should not at this stage even consider trading a young pitching prospect. I know it makes for a boring "hot stove" season, but the Twins should stand pat, let ST play itself out, and by June set their final course for 2016. Despite an unfortunate sequence of variables,I had hoped that this would have been done a year ago. Better late than never!

[Linus]

This is the problem: we don't want Hicks or Schafer to hold down center field because there is no evidence that either should be counted on at this point.  Neither are proven offensively and Hicks isn't defensively, either. 

 

Rasmus improves our outfield defense substantially which is the lowest hanging fruit we can go for right now.

[nicksaviking]

This is the problem: we don't want Hicks or Schafer to hold down center field because there is no evidence that either should be counted on at this point.  Neither are proven offensively and Hicks isn't defensively, either. 

 

Rasmus improves our outfield defense substantially which is the lowest hanging fruit we can go for right now.

Rasmus isn't very good defensively though, at least not if you're going to plug him into CF. Offensively he's not too pretty to look at either. I know his 20 HR potential is sexy, but even with his moderate power, he's had an OPS .735 or less in four of his six seasons.

[jorgenswest]

They are looking to trade Blackmon for good pitching. They don't need to trade him. He is a good low cost player for Coors Field. Why would they they trade him for any of the mediocre pitchers listed here?

 

It started with Gibson and he is he only one that they might consider other than Hughes or good prospects. He is a groundball pitcher for Coors.

 

I wouldn't trade Gibson for him. The Twins need good pitching and he might be able to provide it for a while. I can't see why they would trade him for the other guys. If they wanted a decline phase guy with a contract they could have gone out and bought one in free agency.

 

I don't see how the Twins are a match unless having a surplus of mediocre pitching is the new market inefficiency.

[Kwak]

The entire concept is misguided.  Don't trade to acquire a hole-plugging mediocrity, demand a high-quality player, someone who would be a core player of a playoff team.  Else, just line-up who is at hand and wait for the truly high-quality player.

[nicksaviking]

They are looking to trade Blackmon for good pitching. They don't need to trade him. He is a good low cost player for Coors Field. Why would they they trade him for any of the mediocre pitchers listed here?.

They wouldn't. I think you're missing the underlying messages in the posts. Most posters here seem to agree, he's a Coors Field mirage and the numbers back it up, so the Twins shouldn't give up anyone of value for him. The Rockies over-value him, so the unstated implication is, no deal will occur.

[stringer bell]

The Rockies have been looking at the Kevin Correia level on the free agent market. The Twins have a lot to offer at that level. The Rocks still have an excess of outfielders, but after his second half I don't think Blackmon is a good match with the Twins.

 

My scenario remains trade for Bourjos or any other elite defense right handed hitting outfielder available. Schafer plays more if Bourjos struggles at the plate and less if he hits. Schafer gets several starts for Hunter vs. RH pitching and occasional starts for Arcia. Hicks goes to Rochester to compete for a recall.

[jokin]

They wouldn't. I think you're missing the underlying messages in the posts. Most posters here seem to agree, he's a Coors Field mirage and the numbers back it up, so the Twins shouldn't give up anyone of value for him. The Rockies over-value him, so the unstated implication is, no deal will occur.

 

Blackmon isn't fooling most posters here... and he isn't fooling ZiPS, either, we already have a Blackmon in-house vying for an OF spot:

 

2015 ZiPS projections

 

Charlie Blackmon  0.5 zWAR

Shane Robinson    0.5 zWAR

[Willihammer]

They are looking to trade Blackmon for good pitching. They don't need to trade him. He is a good low cost player for Coors Field. Why would they they trade him for any of the mediocre pitchers listed here?

 

It started with Gibson and he is he only one that they might consider other than Hughes or good prospects. He is a groundball pitcher for Coors.

 

I wouldn't trade Gibson for him. The Twins need good pitching and he might be able to provide it for a while. I can't see why they would trade him for the other guys. If they wanted a decline phase guy with a contract they could have gone out and bought one in free agency.

 

I don't see how the Twins are a match unless having a surplus of mediocre pitching is the new market inefficiency.

From the MLBTR article linked above, "The Rockies haven’t made a significant pitching signing this offseason, and Morosi and Rosenthal write that the main reason is that they’re having trouble attracting pitching to Coors Field. The Rockies think they can deal Blackmon for a pitcher and then sign an outfielder, given that Denver would be an attractive destination for an outfielder for the same reason it’s a poor one for a pitcher."

 

Coors Field is the reason the Rockies might trade Blackmon for mediocre pitchers like Logan Darnell. It limits their ability to acquire pitchers, and it inflated Blackmon's production. He's really not that good.

[Platoon]

This is the problem: we don't want Hicks or Schafer to hold down center field because there is no evidence that either should be counted on at this point.  Neither are proven offensively and Hicks isn't defensively, either. 

 

Rasmus improves our outfield defense substantially which is the lowest hanging fruit we can go for right now.

Shafer can cover ground and catch the ball. That is priority número uno for theTwins in CF. I dont care if he will not hit .275, someone HAS to fill in the gaps between Hunter and Arcia. And these gaps may be worse than thought because of the inexplicable decision to move Arcia to left. If that came from the FO, and it seems it did, the only rationale is to make the acquision seem more palatable!

[Seth Stohs]

Yeah, I guess I'll concur with most of the above. I'd take my chances with Hicks/Schafer/Robinson rather than give up someone.