2014 was supposed to be a big transition year...

[tobi0040]

I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do see some reason for the "go slow" on Meyer.  I think it has more to do with the shoulder injury last year than anything else.  They are protecting him from excess innings and pitches and that has put him behind May in the permanent promotion pecking order.  I also believe that his status of not being on the 40-man roster may have had something to do with keeping him in Rochester.  I'm pretty sure they didn't want to designate a guy just so that Meyer could have a fill-in start and be optioned back to Rochester.  Also, he has had just enough bad starts for me to believe that, like Gibson, additional AAA time might benefit him. 

 

We should be able to find room on that 40 man for our 3rd best prospect and arguably the best pitcher in our system.  Pino, Darnell, Johnson, Burton, Fryer, Parmelee, etc.

 

I don't get why 90-100 pitches at AAA is easier on his shoulder.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I think Millone is to blame on this one. I'm guessing the plan was to bring up Meyer after the trade deadline, but acquiring an ML pitcher eliminated the spot. I think it's for Meyer's best (and the team's best as well) to bring him up in Sept, though I know I'm in the minority here.

Vodka Dave's prognostication to the contrary, we've been hearing for a lot longer (Lavelle Neal reported it awhile back) that Meyer would not see MLB this season.  I think that's been the plan all along.  We've had basically 2 open rotation spots for over a month, and Florimon has been a walking DFA for some time now.

 

And if health is the overriding factor in all this, I don't think a September audition is best for him.  July-August like Gibson 2013 with a possible shutdown around Sep. 1st as needed would have been best, and would have been quite easy to accomplish out of the all-star break if not earlier.  Heck, they could have even optioned Meyer back tomorrow and recalled him Sep. 1st to avoid using an option year and keep his service time down slightly (much like Gibson last year, although the option year was not a factor for him anymore).

[Otto von Ballpark]

I don't necessarily agree with it, but I do see some reason for the "go slow" on Meyer.  I think it has more to do with the shoulder injury last year than anything else.

Pretty much this, although it seems a touch excessive when they didn't even go to these lengths for Gibson who missed an actual full calendar year of pitching, not just 2 months.

[ashbury]

It should have started mid 2012.

The transition started the day they traded Span for a non-MLB-ready pitcher.  That seemed obvious to me at the time, and they punctuated it with the trade of Revere.  So they showed a few months' more patience, is all.  It's been transition ever since.  FWIW I think 2014 has been a good one for the transition, all things considered.

 

It's not the front office's fault if people wanted to hear the words "we are now in rebuild mode".  Evidently Ryan and Co. tried to avoid the extreme of the Marlins and Astros who have essentially gutted major league rosters at their respective times.  Full rebuild has cost the Astros to the extent of a 0.0 Nielsen rating more than once for their games.  I can't fault the Twins for wanting to avoid that.

 

[drjim]

The transition started the day they traded Span for a non-MLB-ready pitcher.  That seemed obvious to me at the time, and they punctuated it with the trade of Revere.  So they showed a few months' more patience, is all.  It's been transition ever since.  FWIW I think 2014 has been a good one for the transition, all things considered.

 

It's not the front office's fault if people wanted to hear the words "we are now in rebuild mode".  Evidently Ryan and Co. tried to avoid the extreme of the Marlins and Astros who have essentially gutted major league rosters at their respective times.  Full rebuild has cost the Astros to the extent of a 0.0 Nielsen rating more than once for their games.  I can't fault the Twins for wanting to avoid that.

 

full_rebuild.jpg

 

This is a good way to put a point I was trying to make earlier. That what we are seeing now is the fruit of many moves that were made leading up to this point. There was a need to rebuild the depth within the organization (especially pitching) while also scrambling to have a representative team. Depth seems to be rebuilt and the team is stabilized (if not exactly good yet), and no moves can be strategic and supplement a team that should be on the upswing over the next couple of seasons.

 

Rebuilds suck no matter how you go about it and there really is no good way to sell it. I think they tried to balance a necessary rebuild without having the major league team collapse. I think it is safe to say they failed in that goal, so I imagine if they could do it over they would perhaps rebuild a little more strenuously, but I'm not sure the difference would have been that huge.

 

Looking back, the one thing they could have done better, in my opinion, is to try to sign a few more veterans/reclamation guys on one year deals with the idea of flipping them at the deadline to add a little bit more depth in the minors. The cost of that might have been a few more losses, but when you are already in the mid 90s it probably doesn't make much of a difference. In the grand scheme, this is probably a small quibble. The key is they haven't added any terrible contracts, they have more or less spent their cap in drafts/international fa, they have traded some veterans who have no future with the club, and they have overhauled a farm system that was in mediocre to poor shape. Even if they didn't out and out say it, this has been a pretty successful rebuild to date.

 

This offseason allows a chance to really build upon this transition and set them up well going forward.

[Thrylos]

I don't think that 2014 was supposed to be a transition season and I don't think that it has been.  The truth will come out sooner than later, but looks like Ryan was given an ultimatum from up front to improve the team and he actually tried to build a contender last off-season (and if he thought that this team would content as it left Spring Training to go up North, there are many issues here.)

 

I get Hughes.  He is young enough, signed until his peak season.  The Pelfrey and Nolaso signings and the fact that Correia and Willingham were still with the team and Meyer and May & Co in the minors, plus the reunion of the 30+ year old had beens, plus the signing of weak bat OF du jour (instead of playing your former first round draft pick who is raking in the minors), plus the signing of Morales (instead of promoting Vargas.)

 

The only transition I saw this season is of shortstops to the outfield.

Wanna see transitions and successful ones?  Look at Miami.  Everyone was pointing fingers when they got rid of expensive talent that did not click a couple seasons ago, trading it for kids and playing the kids.  They are more competitive than the Twins this season. (4.5 games behind the WC spot right now and not selling.)

 

The last 3 seasons were half-(baked) rebuilding.  You either rebuild or you don't.  But you need to know how to rebuild.

 

About the rotation and the prospects and 2015.

 

Nolasco

Hughes

Pelfrey

 

(in decreasing order of financial obligations)

 

will have a spot.  Gibson deserves another, I would argue.  So:  May (who is out of options, I think), Milone (who is out of options, I think), and Meyer will fight for another.  Berrios will not even be close.

 

We have seen that story before, but May and Meyer are not Diamond and Deduno...

 

I still hope that there are a lot of changes next offseason and there is a plan in place, because it seems that this team has been run without one for a long time (other than knee-jerk)

[bird]

I still think it is a year too late. The transition is in full swing.

Which of the prospects now being indoctrinated would have looked anything but overmatched in 2013? We got the "no shortcuts" speech for a reason in 2013. The transition was in full swing then, but it needed more time in the oven. 

 

This is a more complete and more dynamic overhaul than the Puckett/Hrbek one. Probably 2-3 times more projectable individual talent this time around, and we'll have the ammo to make the Bruno-type trade to fill a hole or two.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

We should be able to find room on that 40 man for our 3rd best prospect and arguably the best pitcher in our system.  Pino, Darnell, Johnson, Burton, Fryer, Parmelee, etc.

 

I don't get why 90-100 pitches at AAA is easier on his shoulder.

its not easier on his shoulder, it's that you don't have to expose him to waivers or lose the 40 man spot when you shut him down for the season early. It's a lot easier to be careful with innings limits at AAA when you don't have the same rules as in the bigs. Combine that with injury risk to one of the most important prospects on your roster, and the lack of depth/flexibility with the relievers and outfield, and TR was stuck. With a better picture this offseason of the Johnson/Pino/Darnell, think there will be movement in the bullpen. I think Johnson and Darnell replace Swarzak and Duensing in the pen..... I think 2014 will be cemented as pivotal in the rebuild by this upcoming offseason. This is only the beginning, as the youngsters are proving they are ready in Aug/Sep

[drjim]

I don't think that 2014 was supposed to be a transition season and I don't think that it has been.  The truth will come out sooner than later, but looks like Ryan was given an ultimatum from up front to improve the team and he actually tried to build a contender last off-season (and if he thought that this team would content as it left Spring Training to go up North, there are many issues here.)

 

I get Hughes.  He is young enough, signed until his peak season.  The Pelfrey and Nolaso signings and the fact that Correia and Willingham were still with the team and Meyer and May & Co in the minors, plus the reunion of the 30+ year old had beens, plus the signing of weak bat OF du jour (instead of playing your former first round draft pick who is raking in the minors), plus the signing of Morales (instead of promoting Vargas.)

 

The only transition I saw this season is of shortstops to the outfield.

Wanna see transitions and successful ones?  Look at Miami.  Everyone was pointing fingers when they got rid of expensive talent that did not click a couple seasons ago, trading it for kids and playing the kids.  They are more competitive than the Twins this season. (4.5 games behind the WC spot right now and not selling.)

 

The last 3 seasons were half-(baked) rebuilding.  You either rebuild or you don't.  But you need to know how to rebuild.

 

About the rotation and the prospects and 2015.

 

Nolasco

Hughes

Pelfrey

 

(in decreasing order of financial obligations)

 

will have a spot.  Gibson deserves another, I would argue.  So:  May (who is out of options, I think), Milone (who is out of options, I think), and Meyer will fight for another.  Berrios will not even be close.

 

We have seen that story before, but May and Meyer are not Diamond and Deduno...

 

I still hope that there are a lot of changes next offseason and there is a plan in place, because it seems that this team has been run without one for a long time (other than knee-jerk)

 

Miami is actually an interesting comparison. The age of the offense a month ago was very comparable to the offense the Twins rolled out (Twins are now younger after dumping Morales and Willingham). The main difference is the Marlins young players performed and younger arms emerged. And Stanton. And to repeat again, Stanton.

[Brandon]

I agree that I don't think 2014 was supposed to be a rebuilding year.   think the Twins really lost a lot of what they were trying to do last offseason on offense when Raj Davis signed with Detroit.  That put us in the bid early in the year at CF when there was no one else to play there.  Luckily they got their pitchers...Also the Twins had bad luck with their sluggers  Willingham was hurt and didn't hit for ave. Colabello didn't progress, Kubel didn't bounce back, Arcia didn't progress, and Mauer got hurt and slumped.  If things broke right they could have been competitive at least for an 85 win season.

 

One area we really excelled was developing the farm system.  we really have a lot of prospects.  So that is making it easer for management to say we are ok to be in a full rebuild now as the prospects are ready or near read.

[USAFChief]

its not easier on his shoulder, it's that you don't have to expose him to waivers or lose the 40 man spot when you shut him down for the season early. It's a lot easier to be careful with innings limits at AAA when you don't have the same rules as in the bigs. Combine that with injury risk to one of the most important prospects on your roster, and the lack of depth/flexibility with the relievers and outfield, and TR was stuck. With a better picture this offseason of the Johnson/Pino/Darnell, think there will be movement in the bullpen. I think Johnson and Darnell replace Swarzak and Duensing in the pen..... I think 2014 will be cemented as pivotal in the rebuild by this upcoming offseason. This is only the beginning, as the youngsters are proving they are ready in Aug/Sep

Expose him to waivers?  

[DocBauer]

I could cut and paste all day and then respond. So that's not practical, and too hard and time consuming, LOL, I just sent out a bunch of likes and decided to share a few thoughts of my own after reading and reflection.

 

I honestly began this thread as a question, a bit unsure how to answer it myself initially. I have to say, the response has been very good and very intelligent. Kudos to all.

 

I originally felt 2014 would be a definitive transition year. There were times during the season where I questioned that idea, or at least, the degree of such. Now that August is upon us, trades have been made, promotions have followed, even milb promotions, Although, as has been suggested by others, said transition is probably not as expedient or thorough as originally hoped for or expected. I hate to rehash the obvious, but it begins with Buxton and Sano. I, for one, never expected them to break camp. I doubted June. But the second half to now, I thought we'd probably see them. Whether they exploded on the scene or got their feet wet, I think we'd all feel better about said 2014 transition had this happened.

 

I also think we'd feel better, at least different, had Hicks made a move this year to claim an OF spot. Pull a Torri Hunter, if you will, where he flounders and bounces a bit before at least starting to settle in. Not placing blame anywhere in particular, just saying it would change the perspective.

 

I like the thought though, that the rebuild really began with the trades for May and Meyer. I think that's accurate. And I'm not going to debate here if they should have been brought up by now, or if the Twins are being too cautious, or if they may indeed handling both just right. But I think they were a big part, and maybe the first part. While circumstances are different, I'm reminded of similar arguements regarding Gibson last year though, and I think it's turned out about as well as can be expected.

 

You could argue Nolasco and Hughes, while not prospects, are also part of the rebuild. Hughes is still young with untapped/unfulfilled potential, arguably, until now. Nolasco is a youn 30yo veteran to provide innings and a veteran presence.

 

You know, we could continue to argue and debate about the handling of SS and CF all over again, but Escobar got his shot and has, dare I say, excelled. I know we've talked and debated somewhat about replacing him with the likes of Polanco and Gordon...which may indeed happen...but what he's done this year has been a revelation as well as an answer to multi-season prayers. Does Santana have a future at SS? I don't know. At this point I have to, "does it matter?" You want your best players on the field. And for a multitude of reasons, many players change and learn different positions and find success. He has been a catalyst, has been fun and highly productive, and just refuses to not be good. I guess I'd prefer to look at what he's done/doing, and not so much as to what position he was supposed to be playing.

[stringer bell]

Expose him to waivers?

Right Chief, they would never have to expose Meyer to waivers. Obviously, the Twins view every player on their 40-man as someone worth keeping. Most of us don't believe a 40-man slot should be used for Florimon and there are several others who appear questionable. My original point was that the Twins didn't want to lose a man on the 40-man so that Meyer could be called up for a spot start. Why they haven't promoted him for good might have something to do with 40-man issues, but more likely that whatever audition he would have would be limited by his being shut down early. They chose Pino back in June and Pino had great numbers and he has gone up and down because he has options. Knowing what I know (not much), I would have promoted Meyer or May instead of Pino, but there are more issues than who is the best pitcher right now and who will be the best pitcher in a couple years. Now, they have acquired a starter (Milone) and another (Nolasco) is returning from the DL. I don't really see room for Meyer in the small window before he is shut down.

[kab21]

About the rotation and the prospects and 2015.

 

Nolasco

Hughes

Pelfrey

 

(in decreasing order of financial obligations)

 

will have a spot.  Gibson deserves another, I would argue.  So:  May (who is out of options, I think), Milone (who is out of options, I think), and Meyer will fight for another.  Berrios will not even be close.

 

We have seen that story before, but May and Meyer are not Diamond and Deduno...

 

I still hope that there are a lot of changes next offseason and there is a plan in place, because it seems that this team has been run without one for a long time (other than knee-jerk)

 

This is what we have seen before but a not at all what you are talking about.  Meyer will be a victim of the service time nonsense and won't be an option for opening day.  If anything the Twins are setting up to have a rotation full of holes again instead of too much pitching.

 

that leaves the Twins with

Nolasco

Hughes

Gibson

Pelfrey

May

Milone

 

Pelfrey stinks but he will get a shot.  According to thebaseballcube May went on the 40 man right before the Revere trade and was optioned in 2013 and 2014.  Milone went on the 40 man at the end of 2011 but was never optioned to the minors (2011/2012) and didn't use an option year.  He was optioned in 2013 (for 2 weeks) and in 2014.  He still has an option.  So the Twins have 6 bodies for the opening day rotation.  1 of them will be <1 year into the UCL rehab route (ticking time bomb).  1 of them stinks and 2 of them have options (not including Gibson).  Meyer is available in June and will almost certainly be needed by then.  Imo this is not a problem and imo pitching depth is still a little shaky.  The Twins certainly better not avoid FA starters this offseason because of this non-existent problem that they have.

[DocBauer]

This is what we have seen before but a not at all what you are talking about.  Meyer will be a victim of the service time nonsense and won't be an option for opening day.  If anything the Twins are setting up to have a rotation full of holes again instead of too much pitching.

 

that leaves the Twins with

Nolasco

Hughes

Gibson

Pelfrey

May

Milone

 

Pelfrey stinks but he will get a shot.  According to thebaseballcube May went on the 40 man right before the Revere trade and was optioned in 2013 and 2014.  Milone went on the 40 man at the end of 2011 but was never optioned to the minors (2011/2012) and didn't use an option year.  He was optioned in 2013 (for 2 weeks) and in 2014.  He still has an option.  So the Twins have 6 bodies for the opening day rotation.  1 of them will be <1 year into the UCL rehab route (ticking time bomb).  1 of them stinks and 2 of them have options (not including Gibson).  Meyer is available in June and will almost certainly be needed by then.  Imo this is not a problem and imo pitching depth is still a little shaky.  The Twins certainly better not avoid FA starters this offseason because of this non-existent problem that they have.

If Meyer doesn't open with the ball club next year, it will be due to other available options performing well, and/or the idea of giving him a little more time to iron some things out. Not due to any other reason. Remember this past ST when everyone just KNEW Gibson was going to Rochester due to service time and options and they would stick with Diamond and Worley regardless. Except, that's not how it happened. The team kept the younger and better player.

 

Until we hear or see something otherwise, Nolasco is healthy, throwing pain free, and not walking the TJ path. Milone was a surprisingly solid pickup. Nothing great, but solid. Not just a AAAA guy walking down the street. "Hey buddy! you ever pitch before?" And while I don't think anyone is very excited about Pelfrey, I think perspective is due.

 

While he rushed, and the Twins admit he was rushed, after he got his strength and command back, he actually pitched quite well in 2013 until he tired. If something close to that pitcher is back this season, he's a solid option for at least a portion of the season. But right now, he's probably 6th on the list for SP spots. And again, that's not including Meyer, which bumps him to 7. By mid season Berrios, Darnell and Gilmartin may all be options as well, though I see Darnell in the pen possibly.

[drjim]

When Meyer doesn't start the season in the rotation it will be primarily because of innings concerns. Hasn't built up enough innings this year to answer the bell from day one. Darn good 6th starter though.

[ericchri]

Here's one thing I can say I'm encouraged by at this point:

 

Pos - Player (Age) - OBP/OPS

1B - Mauer (31) - .345/.702

2B - Dozier (27) - .338/.763

SS - Escobar (25) - .316/.714

3B - Plouffe (28) - .320/.722

C - Suzuki (30) - .361/.747

LF - Parmelee (26) - .306/.695    or    Schafer (27) - .333/.697  (SSS with Twins)

CF - Santana (23) - .360/.837

RF - Arcia (23) - .310/.733

DH - Vargas (24) - .340/.775  (very SSS)

 

For all intents and purposes we can put together a full lineup that's not particularly old where everyone has an OBP over .300 and an OPS over .700 (except LF, which is darn close), which means there's no longer any black holes in the lineup.  That's the lineup that any prospects coming up are breaking into.  Yeah, those are fairly low bars to cross and don't make them great hitters per se, but they don't suck, either.  So if somebody comes up and is better than somebody in that lineup, then we're in decent shape.

[kab21]

If Meyer doesn't open with the ball club next year, it will be due to other available options performing well, and/or the idea of giving him a little more time to iron some things out. Not due to any other reason. Remember this past ST when everyone just KNEW Gibson was going to Rochester due to service time and options and they would stick with Diamond and Worley regardless. Except, that's not how it happened. The team kept the younger and better player.

 

Until we hear or see something otherwise, Nolasco is healthy, throwing pain free, and not walking the TJ path. Milone was a surprisingly solid pickup. Nothing great, but solid. Not just a AAAA guy walking down the street. "Hey buddy! you ever pitch before?" And while I don't think anyone is very excited about Pelfrey, I think perspective is due.

 

While he rushed, and the Twins admit he was rushed, after he got his strength and command back, he actually pitched quite well in 2013 until he tired. If something close to that pitcher is back this season, he's a solid option for at least a portion of the season. But right now, he's probably 6th on the list for SP spots. And again, that's not including Meyer, which bumps him to 7. By mid season Berrios, Darnell and Gilmartin may all be options as well, though I see Darnell in the pen possibly.

 

No, Meyer's 2015 season is more comparable to Gibson's 2013 season where everyone wanted him to open the season in the rotation and he didn't get called up until the middle of the season.  Gibson already had two months of service time (in 2014) so it would have been more difficult to play the service time game with him. 

 

I don't care if Nolasco and the Twins say that he is healthy.  The rest and rehab route is rarely effective even if a pitcher comes back for a short time.  I can think of one pitcher (Ervin Santana) that avoided TJ after going the rest and rehab route.  Brett Anderson delayed for 1+ years but ultimately he had TJ.

 

Regardless pitching is thin next season although it's better than recent seasons.

[tobi0040]

When Meyer doesn't start the season in the rotation it will be primarily because of innings concerns. Hasn't built up enough innings this year to answer the bell from day one. Darn good 6th starter though.

 

To quote Will Middlebrooks.  "who did he piss off, no way they have five guys better than him".  Hughes is the only guy you can argue with the edge going to Meyer, IMO.

[nicksaviking]

If "going slow" is the proper course for Meyer, I'm confused as to why he needs to "go slow" at Rochester and not in Minnesota.  If he's only got a finite number of bullets in his arm, why are they being spent in AAA.

 

Besides, if "going slow" means you are a detriment to the club as you have to be yanked early, doesn't it make more sense to be a liablity in meaningless games?  The Twins are playing meaningless games, the Red Wings are not.

[DocBauer]

If "going slow" is the proper course for Meyer, I'm confused as to why he needs to "go slow" at Rochester and not in Minnesota.  If he's only got a finite number of bullets in his arm, why are they being spent in AAA.

 

I'm sorry, but I've read this quote, or similar, many times, and I cringe in bewilderment each and every time.

 

EVERY PLAYER has a finite number of bullets in his arm, or AB strokes in his body. Of course, absolutely nobody knows what those finite numbers are for anyone. Cup of coffee? Handful of seasons? Perennial all-star HOF'er like Jeter?

 

By this reasoning, no offense to Escobar, but Gordon should be up now to finish the season and be the starting SS next season. After all, he's a great young talent, part of the future, probably a top 10 organizational player in off season rankings, so he might as well be up now, and for now on, to learn on the job. After all, he only has a finite number of swings in him.

 

Too extreme an example? OK, how about Berrios? Forget he's only 20 and just barely arrived at AA. Forget he's only tossed a 100-ish innings a season max thus far. He's a top talent and prospect. And he only has so many bullets in his arm. He should probably be up this weekend and just plan on being part of the rotation from here on out as well as next season. And if he's not ready and stinks up the joint or gets injured because of the workload? Meh. No sense worrying about those kinds of things, after all, only so many bullets in the gun right?

 

Not trying to sound jerk-ish here, I'm just trying to make a direct point that to me seems obvious. Every career is finite, and every career has to start somewhere. Players spend time in the minors for a reason. And they progress through the minors for reasons. We can definitely argue as to the rate of promotion at times. Should Gibson have been brought up earlier last season? Mmmmm....in retrospect and how things have progressed thus far, I'd put my money on the Twins making the right choice on that instance. Meyer? I don't know. He's a tremendous talent who's put up some terrific numbers this year and been dominate at times. He's also building his IP per year number, honing his pitches, and has had games and stretches where he's been kinda rough and can't make it out of or past the 4th inning before hitting his pitch limit. Debate his readiness and promotion time at will. Just don't tell me he should have already been up in the major leagues as a starting pitcher because he has a limited shelf life.

[Mike Sixel]

Axtually, more teams are bringing up pitchers sooner because of the concern of a limited number of healthy pitches. This has been written up on several websites this year. The twins appear to be behind on this trend.

[drjim]

To quote Will Middlebrooks. "who did he piss off, no way they have five guys better than him". Hughes is the only guy you can argue with the edge going to Meyer, IMO.

In talent, absolutely, I have never argued otherwise. And I also want him up in the bullpen yesterday.

 

But he won't be able to hold up the entire season next year starting in the rotation on day one.

 

I personally would have him finish the season in the pen to get his feet wet and then start the season as the sixth starter so he can spend most of the season in the rotation.

[drjim]

Axtually, more teams are bringing up pitchers sooner because of the concern of a limited number of healthy pitches. This has been written up on several websites this year. The twins appear to be behind on this trend.

Do you have links? I'm skeptical it is a league wide trend.

[ALessKosherScott]

I do not understand the thinking behind Meyer.

 

May is a bit easier to understand. I think he was on the verge of a promotion but then got injured, sat through the AS break, then got rained out... It was a series of unfortunate events that delayed his MLB debut.

 

I get Meyer perfectly. To put it in perspective, Jim Hoey had a 4.5 BB/9 rate at Rochester. That's not saying his command is as bad as Hoey, but even if he (unlikely) holds at 4.5 BB/9 Meyer is going to have a hard time being successful in the majors. Would we really feel better about this season if Meyer were up in Minneapolis taking some of his sheen off?

[jokin]

Axtually, more teams are bringing up pitchers sooner because of the concern of a limited number of healthy pitches. This has been written up on several websites this year. The twins appear to be behind on this trend.

 

 

 Just don't tell me he should have already been up in the major leagues as a starting pitcher because he has a limited shelf life.

 

 

Sorry Doc, but Mike is absolutely spot on.  The much-maligned Miami Marlins get it.  They had FIVE starting pitchers last year, age 23 or younger.  In 500 innings pitched, they attained a combined ERA of 3.51.  This year, the Marlins have 11 rostered pitchers, age 24 or younger, 9 of whom have started games for Miami, plus they traded for relief pitcher Carter Capps.  

 

And of course, they didn't stop accumulating more young arms, with all of their great young staff, they still traded for 24-year old power pitcher Jarred Cosart from the Astros in a deadline deal.  On the flipside, 23-year old Jacob Turner was having a down year, did they panic and shut him down with a mysterious injury... or send him down to minor league obscurity for a couple years to find himself?, or worse, release him for non-performance issues...? No, they flipped him to the Cubs for two younger pitching prospects.  Want to know a part of the secret to the Marlins' pitching success with the seeming ever-abundancy of young arms?.... just scanning the Miami transaction wire in July and August, the Marlins habit of signing 24-and-under pitchers continued.... counting the Cosart and Turner trades, in just a month and a half the Marlins acquired 6 power arms age 24 or younger. 

[big dog]

To quote Will Middlebrooks.  "who did he piss off, no way they have five guys better than him".  Hughes is the only guy you can argue with the edge going to Meyer, IMO.

I don't have a dog in this hunt- I don't think it's an obvious call either way.  That said, isn't this Middlebrooks quote getting a little tired?  He's hitting a buck-eighty during his limited time in the majors this year.  Everyone looks really good to him.

[jokin]

I get Meyer perfectly. To put it in perspective, Jim Hoey had a 4.5 BB/9 rate at Rochester. That's not saying his command is as bad as Hoey, but even if he (unlikely) holds at 4.5 BB/9 Meyer is going to have a hard time being successful in the majors. Would we really feel better about this season if Meyer were up in Minneapolis taking some of his sheen off?

 

Comparing Meyer to a career minor league relief pitcher is not getting Meyer's situation perfectly.

 

And to answer you, yes, I would feel a lot better about Meyer taking his lumps this year in anticipation of a much better season next year. 

[kab21]

I'm not sure I would use the Marlins as an example of success since they blew out their Cy Young's arm in just over 1 season.  He had thrown 51 innings by May 9th this year.  That's what happens when young players are in the majors instead of at AAA.  In AAA this year the Twins were able to pull Meyer early instead of going for the win.  Meyer's arm is always going to be an injury concern but he appears to (still) be healthy.

[jokin]

I'm not sure I would use the Marlins as an example of success since they blew out their Cy Young's arm in just over 1 season.  He had thrown 51 innings by May 9th this year.  That's what happens when young players are in the majors instead of at AAA.  In AAA this year the Twins were able to pull Meyer early instead of going for the win.  Meyer's arm is always going to be an injury concern but he appears to (still) be healthy.

 

Arms are getting blown out all the time, at all ages, not just "what happens when young players are in the majors instead of at AAA"...you mentioned Cy Young, Verlander seems on the verge of a shutdown, Bronson Arroyo's indestructible robo-arm got shut down in Arizona.... it's become an inevitable part of the process, seemingly without definitive prentatives or solutions.....

 

and the Marlins aggregate numbers still stand, with Fernandez this year, or not...the point Mike is making makes it more valid, maximize the bullets fired while the arms are still fresh, locked and loaded.