Pino Optioned

[stringer bell]

Congratulations, Yohan! You won your first game as a major leaguer, now you get to go to Rochester, NY for 10 days. Kris Johnson gets the start on Friday.

 

In other roster news, Danny Santana is in Florida and the plan is for him to work out with the Gulf Coast team and then rehab with the Miracle. It is possible that he could be ready when the season resumes after the All-Star break. Mauer is improving, but not likely to be ready to be activated when he is eligible after the break.

[beckmt]

This was expected. Hopefully Twins will have one of the prospects up after the break.

[DaveW]

Pino deserves another start or two. 5 starts, 3 very good ones, one terrible and one mediocre. Still a spot in rotation for may/Meyer with the nolasco injury.

[twinstalker]

This is non-news. He's not getting demoted in anything other than paperwork. He'll get "promoted" when it's his turn to start again, which will be after the rest of the rotation have made their starts after the all-star break.

 

It sucks for him, though, wrt pay.

[amjgt]

Cost him $3000 a day (about) that he's not on the major league club.

 

Sorry about that $30k, Yohan.

[Badsmerf]

Pino looks like a guy that will provide some nice depth to the organization. Pretty soon May will be a fixture, and Meyer should be except the inning limit might prevent that this year. He seems like a good option when you need a few starts when someone goes down, or needs to be sent down.

[JB_Iowa]

It's pretty clear that Pino has learned something about pitching.

 

Very impressed by the way he worked his way out of jams last night.

 

After so many years of toiling in the minors, I'm glad that he has gotten an opportunity to show that he can have some success at the major league level.

 

And yeah, it s*cks that he's taking a major pay cut with the option.

[gil4]

Pino deserves another start or two. 5 starts, 3 very good ones, one terrible and one mediocre.

 

I don't know that I'd call last night's start "very good." He used 100 pitches to get through 5 innings. He did manage to leave the bases loaded twice; otherwise, it would have been a much different game. My comfort factor with his pitching last night was pretty low.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I don't know that I'd call last night's start "very good." He used 100 pitches to get through 5 innings. He did manage to leave the bases loaded twice; otherwise, it would have been a much different game. My comfort factor with his pitching last night was pretty low.

 

Yeah... The only start from Pino that I'd classify as "very good" was his first. 7 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 7 K. Maybe his 6 IP start as well but I really struggle to call a 6 IP start "very good".

[Mike Sixel]

This is why your number 5 pitcher and some bullpen guys should have options. So you can use AAA as depth. Good move by the Twins.

[DaveW]

Yeah... The only start from Pino that I'd classify as "very good" was his first. 7 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 7 K. Maybe his 6 IP start as well but I really struggle to call a 6 IP start "very good".

I'm all about results: in 3 starts he has given up 2 or less runs, that is very good in my book.

[Brock Beauchamp]

I'm all about results: in 3 starts he has given up 2 or less runs, that is very good in my book.

 

Good, but if a pitcher is going only 6 IP, I expect a lot more swings and misses than Pino has gotten in most starts. Wood hitting ball can work out for a few starts but overall, it will equalize back to the mean unless the swinging strike percentage goes up. He has a swinging strike percentage below Gibson but only 34% of his contact is killing worms (compared to Gibson's 54%).

[TheLeviathan]

I think people are talking about two different things - his end results were good in three starts, but he didn't pitch "very good". In all three of those starts the margin of error for those going pumpkin was incredibly small.

 

I'm glad he got some starts, but he was primed to go Albers very quickly.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'll echo the sentiments of gil and Brock above. Outside of that debut, Pino's starts have been acceptable but that's about it.

 

And I think he is starting to highlight why he was not the best candidate for promotion: even when he's generating acceptable results in the short term, these performances are telling us virtually nothing going forward. Given his age and track record, there's almost no way we can count on him as a starter in 2015. At best he seems to be auditioning to stay on the 40-man roster this winter as a bullpen option or AAA depth, but it seems a little excessive to use a permanent rotation spot for such an audition now with actual potential 2015 rotation candidates waiting in the wings at AAA. Let Pino spot start (like Johnson?) or get innings out of the pen instead.

 

This reminds me a lot of Albers' decent run at the end of 2013, or PJ Walters solid start in 2012 -- acceptable results, but no bearing on the Twins future. At least in those two cases, the Twins were mostly bereft of other starting options at the time.

[Brock Beauchamp]

This reminds me a lot of Albers' decent run at the end of 2013, or PJ Walters solid start in 2012 -- acceptable results, but no bearing on the Twins future. At least in those two cases, the Twins were mostly bereft of other starting options at the time.

 

I disagree that they had no bearing on the Twins' future, as Albers is gone and Walters is now at the bottom of the depth chart.

 

I have few issues with the Twins taking flyers on guys in June or early July to see if anyone sticks a la Scott Diamond. If it continues through late July and into August, then I take issue.

 

Still a lot of ball left to be played. May will get his shot. Meyer will probably get his shot.

[jokin]

This is why your number 5 pitcher and some bullpen guys should have options. So you can use AAA as depth. Good move by the Twins.

 

Yep, this is how successful teams do it and always avoid 13 or 14 man pitching staffs, which then, meanwhile, leaves you with only Fryer or Fuld to pinch hit for Florimon. I don't understand anyone being too upset over Pino being optioned out- I'm sure he gets that it's part of the game and is very grateful to finally get his big league chance. Bringing Johnson in tonight for Nolasco, while keeping an additional bench spot available in an NL city....very adroit move by Terry Ryan.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Bringing Johnson in tonight for Nolasco, while keeping an additional bench spot available in an NL city....very adroit move by Terry Ryan.

 

He has been very aggressive with these types of roster moves in the past 4-6 weeks. A welcome change, for sure.

[stringer bell]

I disagree that they had no bearing on the Twins' future, as Albers is gone and Walters is now at the bottom of the depth chart.

 

I have few issues with the Twins taking flyers on guys in June or early July to see if anyone sticks a la Scott Diamond. If it continues through late July and into August, then I take issue.

 

Still a lot of ball left to be played. May will get his shot. Meyer will probably get his shot.

Walters is on the bottom of some else's depth chart. He opposed the Red Wings recently (within the last week I think). He is with the Buffalo Bison.

[Brandon]

Good, but if a pitcher is going only 6 IP, I expect a lot more swings and misses than Pino has gotten in most starts. Wood hitting ball can work out for a few starts but overall, it will equalize back to the mean unless the swinging strike percentage goes up. He has a swinging strike percentage below Gibson but only 34% of his contact is killing worms (compared to Gibson's 54%).

 

Doesn't Pino have the highest or second highest K rate in the rotation? His WHIP is 1.35 which is a little high but overall he has been solid.

[stringer bell]

On the subject of Pino, he's OK as a fifth starter. I think he's a bit better version of the guys mentioned earlier and he has a history as a bullpen guy, so he may be able to last a while as a swing man (5th-6th starter & long man).

 

I also was going to note that if the Twins have a position player or bullpen guy they want up, they can option Johnson after today's game and still have him available to start after the break. I would assume that the Twins go Gibson, Correia, Hughes as the first three starters after the All-Star game. They can recall Pino on time on the 21st and they could recall Johnson if they wanted him to start again on the 22nd. I just don't know who they would recall as a bullpen arm or bench player.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Doesn't Pino have the highest or second highest K rate in the rotation? His WHIP is 1.35 which is a little high but overall he has been solid.

 

He's been okay but that stat says more about the Twins rotation than it does Yohan Pino. There's Phil Hughes and then an extreme groundball guy. Those are the only two good pitchers in the rotation.

 

I'm not bashing Pino, I simply don't believe he's any kind of long-term answer.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Walters is on the bottom of some else's depth chart. He opposed the Red Wings recently (within the last week I think). He is with the Buffalo Bison.

 

Good point. I forgot he was no longer with the team.

[DaveW]

Good, but if a pitcher is going only 6 IP, I expect a lot more swings and misses than Pino has gotten in most starts. Wood hitting ball can work out for a few starts but overall, it will equalize back to the mean unless the swinging strike percentage goes up. He has a swinging strike percentage below Gibson but only 34% of his contact is killing worms (compared to Gibson's 54%).

Thank you for explaining to me how baseball works

 

All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well, the stats say he is pitching just fine and a peek into the advanced metrics show he is actually getting a bit unlucky with his FIP.

 

The Twins have won 3 games of the 5 he has started. He has done a damn fine job in the meantime.

[gil4]

I don't understand anyone being too upset over Pino being optioned out

 

I don't think anyone is really that upset. Some feel bad for the guy because it's costing him about $3K per day, but that is really just the fate of all AAAA guys.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Thank you for explaining to me how baseball works

 

All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well, the stats say he is pitching just fine and a peek into the advanced metrics show he is actually getting a bit unlucky with his FIP.

 

The Twins have won 3 games of the 5 he has started. He has done a damn fine job in the meantime.

 

Not bashing the guy. As a spot starter, can't ask for much more than what he has given the Twins this season.

[jokin]

He's been okay but that stat says more about the Twins rotation than it does Yohan Pino. There's Phil Hughes and then an extreme groundball guy. Those are the only two good pitchers in the rotation.

 

I'm not bashing Pino, I simply don't believe he's any kind of long-term answer.

 

Thank you for explaining to me how baseball works

 

All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well, the stats say he is pitching just fine and a peek into the advanced metrics show he is actually getting a bit unlucky with his FIP.

 

The Twins have won 3 games of the 5 he has started. He has done a damn fine job in the meantime.

 

While I can appreciate what Pino has accomplished- he's very, very crafty indeed....the reality is, the margin for error for him is so small, just the slightest pin-prick is likely to break his bubble- and I have to think once game video is logged and booked on him around the league, he will be in a bit of trouble.

 

As for the "strong peripheals" argument, going into last night, his LD% was over 30%, which would have been far and above the worst mark for SP in baseball. (How many "hard hit, but right at 'em" balls were there last night?) His OFB% is worse than Hughes', but without Hughes' stuff. Meanwhile, going into last night, his GB/FB, HR/9, HR/Con, HR/FB, are practically at the inverse levels of his minor league history for those same stats and scream "unsustainable" (how many fly balls that jump off the bat at Safeco soon die quietly at the warning track?)...it seems only a matter of time before the League catches up with him.

 

Having said all that negative stuff, I agree, he's definitely no long-term answer, but.... he still presents some potential with his remaining options to be a nice deep depth MLB spot starter camped out at Rochester for the next couple of years until something better moves up the ladder.

[TheLeviathan]

All I hear from folks is excuses why Pino isn't pitching well

 

We're just de-hyperbolizing.

[big dog]

I feel like he deserved a shot at the majors, he got it, and he's done ok. Not a building block, but a useful part as long as he has options. If he were 25 I'd feel like he had more of a chance to get better, but at this point he is who he is, and I think Ryan is using him well.

 

Getting Pavano for him a few years ago has to be considered a very good trade for the Twins.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I have few issues with the Twins taking flyers on guys in June or early July to see if anyone sticks a la Scott Diamond. If it continues through late July and into August, then I take issue.

 

I don't mind taking flyers either, I actually enjoy seeing new guys and debuts even for non-prospects. But when there are prospects available and performing well in the high minors, I'd rather they get the first shot. (Notice I am not complaining about the position player promotions -- no prospects in sight there!)

 

Diamond in 2012 didn't come up ahead of a better prospect (plus he was only 25). Neither did Albers or Walters (2012, anyway).

 

But by June 2014, going into the offseason and 2015:

 

+5 starts for Meyer/May >>>> +5 starts for Pino

 

Hopefully VodkaDave is right and both will be up shortly, but I'm not quite seeing the point of the Pino interlude.

[jokin]

I don't mind taking flyers either, I actually enjoy seeing new guys and debuts even for non-prospects. But when there are prospects available and performing well in the high minors, I'd rather they get the first shot. (Notice I am not complaining about the position player promotions -- no prospects in sight there!)

 

Diamond in 2012 didn't come up ahead of a better prospect (plus he was only 25). Neither did Albers or Walters (2012, anyway).

 

But by June 2014, going into the offseason and 2015:

 

+5 starts for Meyer/May >>>> +5 starts for Pino

 

Hopefully VodkaDave is right and both will be up shortly, but I'm not quite seeing the point of the Pino interlude.

 

Well, seeing the Twins let Pino pitch and Colabello hit must play quite well with all of the career AAAA players and their agents...Minnesota (by way of Rochester or New Britain) has to be the last-best-most-preferred option for the rookie graybeard set.