Dude, stop following the team. You'll be happier as a Yankees fan.

You don't need to be a fan of ownership to be a fan of the team.

I dig watching Lewis, Correa, Miranda, Castro, et al, play. It's great. They love the game. It loves them back.

I am pretty sure those guys didn't set the payroll and they weren't in the room with the lawyers negotiating the TV deal.

To conflate Pohlad venom with appreciation of the game and the guys who play it is just silly. 

Ps. I do agree that Dan Gladden should be fired though. He sounds even more brutal (which I didn't think was possible) compared to Perk and Molly.  Confused, supremely arrogant, inarticulate. He's got it all. 

Sports are entertainment. A position that requires winning will inevitably ruin anyone's fan experience.

The Twins have played some good games and baseball inherently will be frustrating because of the length of the season.

Oakland's team is what one gets when all of the prospects are called up and play. They have some exciting moments but cannot sustain for any length of time until the youngsters wade through the ups and downs that most baseball players do in their first few years of MLB.

Most baseball fans have allegiance to the team of their youth unless they adopt the local squad when they move as adults to a city with a team. One, almost by necessity, must divorce a love of the game from the machinations of owners and front office folks. 

I'm a Twins fan and baseball fan, but cannot relate to those who hate or love owners or the office people. I'm interested in the action on the field. 

Why would I be disgusted by this team? They're well over .500 and currently in a postseason spot.

Am I angry at ownership? Absolutely. But I'm farrrrr from disgusted by this team.

We have practically the same roster except Gray, who won the division & advanced in the postseason. We had great new players coming up in SWR, Varland, Paddack, Martin, healthy Buxton, Polanco, Miranda & Kiriloff to help strengthen our weak areas. The FO could have picked up a postseason-caliber SP to fill that gap if they wanted to use players & prospects that were expendable but chose not to. We weren't even close to landing FAs Gray, Snell or Montgomery.Im They instead chose to add DeSclavani, Topa, Margot & Santana. to replace SWR, Varland, Martin, Keirsey, Miranda, Julien, Kiriloff & Lee.

IMO we have a great team now that Lewis is back, We need to do some fine-tuning & synchronize the hitting, defense & pitching to all fire at the same time. We could still probably need a postseason SP.

Agree that the team is not very good. Average at best. 

This doesn't make me a "bad fan", but I do understand how people don't want to read negative comments all the time. It can get annoying. So why not look at the positive:

Royce Lewis is great and may just be the best player in baseball for the next 3-4 years if he remains healthy. If the Twins can somehow find a way to get Brooks Lee up here playing 2B every day, we might just be able to call it a successful season, regardless of whether or not the team makes the playoffs. 

Give me Brooks Lee and give me Brooks Lee NOW!!!! 

13 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Dude, stop following the team. You'll be happier as a Yankees fan.

So as a Twins fan I am not allowed to be critical of the organization?  Or are you just being contrarian to my comments like you always do.

While I dislike the Yankees as much as any other Twins fan, you have to respect how they treat their fans.  They aren't afraid to spend the money they make in an effort to win. 

3 hours ago, Doctor Gast said:

We have practically the same roster except Gray, who won the division & advanced in the postseason. We had great new players coming up in SWR, Varland, Paddack, Martin, healthy Buxton, Polanco, Miranda & Kiriloff to help strengthen our weak areas. The FO could have picked up a postseason-caliber SP to fill that gap if they wanted to use players & prospects that were expendable but chose not to. We weren't even close to landing FAs Gray, Snell or Montgomery.Im They instead chose to add DeSclavani, Topa, Margot & Santana. to replace SWR, Varland, Martin, Keirsey, Miranda, Julien, Kiriloff & Lee.

IMO we have a great team now that Lewis is back, We need to do some fine-tuning & synchronize the hitting, defense & pitching to all fire at the same time. We could still probably need a postseason SP.

Practically the same is not the same, especially with the huge drop off in pitching.  Factor in a few strategic positional losses to go with a virtual complete implosion of the younger guys, and you have a below-average team.

Ownership drives the FO decisions.  The FO decisions drive the results on the field.  Ownership not giving the FO the ability to add to or change the on-field product leaves the Twins in the situation they currently are: slowly falling back, only even in the discussion because of a two week beat down on the worst teams in baseball.

I still listen to most every game (at least the ones where Gladden is not on the radio).  I still am a fan of the the team.  But if you look at last year to this year, it was a huge step back.  A huge INTENTIONAL when it didn't need to be. 

Here in New York, my friends who are lifelong Yankee fans ask me how my Twins are doing.  I say, “We only win against the really bad teams.”  They reply that that’s how the Yankees of old (1950s and early 1960s) did it.  I don’t know if that’s true, but, of course, the current playoff system changes all that.  Still, they mean to be comforting.  
 

5 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

So as a Twins fan I am not allowed to be critical of the organization?  Or are you just being contrarian to my comments like you always do.

While I dislike the Yankees as much as any other Twins fan, you have to respect how they treat their fans.  They aren't afraid to spend the money they make in an effort to win. 

I wouldn't say you're critical of the organization so much as you're on a path of doom and gloom, pessimism, and anger. The ownership is not going to change, and the Twins are never going to spend like the Yankees. It's pretty clear you're unhappy, and I'd even say you come across as miserable.

Like I said, and I wasn't joking, you should go be a Yankees fan or a Dodgers fan or something. Find a team where the owners are willing to spend nearly unlimited money since that seems important to your perception of competitiveness of a team. Baseball is a game. Following a team is a hobby. Your hobbies shouldn't make you miserable.

6 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

So as a Twins fan I am not allowed to be critical of the organization?  Or are you just being contrarian to my comments like you always do.

While I dislike the Yankees as much as any other Twins fan, you have to respect how they treat their fans.  They aren't afraid to spend the money they make in an effort to win. 

I think you are absolutely allowed to be critical of the organization, and yes, there are certainly teams that "do right" by their fans with greater frequency than do the Twins.  However, it's not all (or always) that bad.  I share (some of) your frustration, but for me, it never gets to the extreme lows that you are experiencing.  It kind of sucks the joy right out of it.  For me, but YMMV, I choose to root for the team and the players without regard for the guys holding the purse strings, because nothing I do or say will change that part of the equation.  The Twins have some good players.  Some are playing well, some are not -- that's pretty much normal.  They are on pace to win about as many games as they were projected to win before the season, maybe even a little bit ahead of pace.  The team is enjoyable to watch and will be in contention for a playoff spot. From there, who knows? And that's the beauty of it. It certainly beats the early 1980's (with Calvin Griffith!) and late 1990's, and I remember living through that. 

"...your 2024 Minnesota Twins are not good.

As of the time of this writing, they are 17-2 vs CHW, COL, LAA, OAK. These are 4 of the 5 worst teams in baseball. They are 25-33 against everyone else."

This seems to be the inverse argument of "take away this starting pitcher's 3 worst starts and his numbers look like a #3 starter" statements. Here's the path as I see it for the Twins: Beat up on the teams you should defeat and then compete against the other teams, get into the playoffs, go on a hot streak (which our 2024 Twins are capable of), and anything can happen. The World Series has been filled with 5 and 6 seeds the last handful of years. 

Enjoy the games and enjoy the ride. 

17 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

So as a Twins fan I am not allowed to be critical of the organization?  Or are you just being contrarian to my comments like you always do.

While I dislike the Yankees as much as any other Twins fan, you have to respect how they treat their fans.  They aren't afraid to spend the money they make in an effort to win. 

It's not the criticism that is an issue, it's the attitude of disgust towards a team that is giving fans enjoyable baseball to watch (most of the time). I am as cynical as the next Minnesota sports fan, but I do appreciate that the Twins are a young, exciting team to watch and have a legitimate chance to make the playoffs, despite the best efforts of the FO. 

19 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

So as a Twins fan I am not allowed to be critical of the organization?  Or are you just being contrarian to my comments like you always do.

While I dislike the Yankees as much as any other Twins fan, you have to respect how they treat their fans.  They aren't afraid to spend the money they make in an effort to win. 

Baseball economics is different for the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, etc. - large market teams with payroll that matches their much greater revenue stream. If you look at the yearly payroll data for all the teams in MLB, you'll see fairly consistent rankings. The Yankees 'respect how they treat their fans' because of the revenue they bring in, pure and simple.  That said, they also missed the play-offs last year.

23 minutes ago, arby58 said:

Baseball economics is different for the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, etc. - large market teams with payroll that matches their much greater revenue stream. If you look at the yearly payroll data for all the teams in MLB, you'll see fairly consistent rankings. The Yankees 'respect how they treat their fans' because of the revenue they bring in, pure and simple.  That said, they also missed the play-offs last year.

Baseball economics is different with some of the big market teams, not all.  Ownership for teams like the Yankees and Dodgers could pocket a larger percentage of their income, but they don't.  They spend it.

It isn't completely about the wins and losses.  It is about how we-as-fans are treated by ownership. 

2 hours ago, Fornasiere-ite said:

It's not the criticism that is an issue, it's the attitude of disgust towards a team that is giving fans enjoyable baseball to watch (most of the time). I am as cynical as the next Minnesota sports fan, but I do appreciate that the Twins are a young, exciting team to watch and have a legitimate chance to make the playoffs, despite the best efforts of the FO. 

Most people forget professional sports is a combination of business and competition, with competition almost always taking a backseat to the business.  But the Pohlads are not even attempting to walk this line.

My disgust with this team this year has nothing to do with the "effort" of the players on the field (though with the number of underperforming players this year, there is an argument to be made).  My disgust is the position ownership has put the team and the fans in.  There is no reason to believe ownership cares at all about the product or the fans.  From intentionally lessening the on-filed product to the horrible TV contract decisions they made this year... as a fan I am supposed to just shrug my shoulders and just hand over money to them?

When this team makes no improvement moves at the deadline, or makes further moves to reduce payroll at the expense of winning, and the Twins finish 3 games out of a playoff spot, are you just going to shrug your shoulders and buy another Twins jersey?

Posted this on another thread. The Twins spent a higher percentage of their revenues on player salary than either the Dodgers or the Yankees last year. If that's what you're looking for, The Angels or Rockies or White Sox are the teams for you. They typically spend a ton of money and a high percentage of revenues on player salary year in and out! Go root for them! You'll be happy knowing you have a competitive team destined for the World Series!
Don't fall into the trap of the
Padres = Dying owner's last wish.
Mets = New owner out to flaunt his wealth and prove you can buy a World Series

15 minutes ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Most people forget professional sports is a combination of business and competition, with competition almost always taking a backseat to the business.  But the Pohlads are not even attempting to walk this line.

My disgust with this team this year has nothing to do with the "effort" of the players on the field (though with the number of underperforming players this year, there is an argument to be made).  My disgust is the position ownership has put the team and the fans in.  There is no reason to believe ownership cares at all about the product or the fans.  From intentionally lessening the on-filed product to the horrible TV contract decisions they made this year... as a fan I am supposed to just shrug my shoulders and just hand over money to them?

When this team makes no improvement moves at the deadline, or makes further moves to reduce payroll at the expense of winning, and the Twins finish 3 games out of a playoff spot, are you just going to shrug your shoulders and buy another Twins jersey?

No, but mostly because I'm not a big "wear a jersey with another man's name on it" kind of guy. My financial support of the Minnesota twins is therefore fairly negligible. Maybe I am the problem. If I had only bought one more souvenir we could have signed Blake Snell.  

They are ahead of last year's pace of 89 wins and that's with Lopez and Duran struggling, and with Correa, Buxton and Lewis having missed time. 

If Lopez and Duran round into form, and if Correa and Lewis stay healthy, the Twins will be playing post-season ball.

Just for fun, if you take away the 11 losses against the Yankees, Orioles and Dodgers, the Twins are 25-22 against everyone else. You can certainly argue that competing with those teams should be the benchmark, but the Twins have always struggled with the Yankees and I think they'd fare much better against the Dodgers now than they did in April.

And I think we now understand just how good Royce Lewis is, so that too needs to be factored in when evaluating the month of April - which nearly derailed the entire season.

As others have said, I’m not pissed off at the MLB team. I’m pissed off at DSP and the Pohlads for the terrible TV situation. With attendance this low the next season after winning a playoff series, I’ve got to imagine DSP’s seat is hot. 

I don’t know whether the Twins are good or not good yet. Baseball is so top heavy with 5-6 elite teams, 20 “competitive” teams, and 5 awful teams. 

3 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Posted this on another thread. The Twins spent a higher percentage of their revenues on player salary than either the Dodgers or the Yankees last year. If that's what you're looking for, The Angels or Rockies or White Sox are the teams for you. They typically spend a ton of money and a high percentage of revenues on player salary year in and out! Go root for them! You'll be happy knowing you have a competitive team destined for the World Series!
Don't fall into the trap of the
Padres = Dying owner's last wish.
Mets = New owner out to flaunt his wealth and prove you can buy a World Series

Not looking to argue... I assume this is for 2023.  What revenue does this refer to?  Certain types?  All of it?

3 hours ago, bean5302 said:

Posted this on another thread. The Twins spent a higher percentage of their revenues on player salary than either the Dodgers or the Yankees last year. If that's what you're looking for, The Angels or Rockies or White Sox are the teams for you. They typically spend a ton of money and a high percentage of revenues on player salary year in and out! Go root for them! You'll be happy knowing you have a competitive team destined for the World Series!
Don't fall into the trap of the
Padres = Dying owner's last wish.
Mets = New owner out to flaunt his wealth and prove you can buy a World Series

Thinking any of these franchises are operating at a loss, or that the self reported numbers are even close to accurate seems like a trap...

1 hour ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Not looking to argue... I assume this is for 2023.  What revenue does this refer to?  Certain types?  All of it?

Sources Forbes for revenue and profit (operating income), Spotrac for salary.

18 hours ago, Rod Carews Birthday said:

They are on pace to win about as many games as they were projected to win before the season, maybe even a little bit ahead of pace. 

They should have had more wins in June playing against sub 500 teams.  What happens with Cleveland will say a lot.