DocBauer

"Pitchers and catchers report!" One of the very best phrases to ever be uttered. Right up there with: "Quittin' time" ...and... "Free beer"

On paper and potential, I like this pen a lot. Agreed there are some IF's, but to begin a season, I'm not sure anyone just KNOWS they've got a tremendous, world-beating pen in place. Duran is special. Only injury or some "yips" will derail him. His arm is that special. I don't know that Lopez is as good as his 1st half with Baltimore was. Those numbers were a half season of HOF caliber. But he's just not as mediocre as he was with the Twins. The STUFF is there! I find it humorous that so many are down on him after the trade...SSS as a RP...when considering how many great closers and BP arms the Twins have had after their conversion. But they were developed, not traded for mid season. How about we allow a "settling down" period for him. What a 1-2 punch is possible with him and Duran! Thelbar is going to run out of gas at some point. But I don't think it's going to happen in 2023. From what I've read...don't ask me for a link...even when he's struggled a bit, his underlying numbers said he wasn't bad. Moran is a Wild Card. He's been pretty much outstanding in his milb career, but stunk at St Paul in 2022. But he was pretty much outstanding with the Twins. He may fight BB a bit, but K's and soft contact mitigate that. I think he's got a bright future if he can learn to handle LH a bit better. Alcala is also a WC. Is he now 100%? I have to believe so based on the FO attitude towards the pen. He was really good to finish 2021, looked good initially in 2022 ST, and IIRC, he had dusted off or tweaked a 3rd offering late in 2021 to alow his strong finish. He could be HUGE in 2023 and going forward....potentially. Jax was pretty damn good as a virtual rookie making the conversion to the pen. His inherited runners numbers don't look so good. And he needs to improve on that. But inherited runners is one of those things that can come from experience, but also a random or luck factor. Again, like a lot of this pen, we're talking about good arms with good production still learning and adapting to their role. I Iiked what I saw of Megill in ST and his first few appearances in 2022. His stuff is nasty at times. He might be a late bloomer as a quality mid guy, but I would have been OK letting him off the 40 man for a better option. Still am. I would have dumped Pagan mid season last year. But right or wrong, smart or stubborn, the FO still sees value in him with numbers and his "new pitch" as a middle man, based on his end to 2022. I would have spent his $3.5M plus more on someone else. I sure hope the FO is right on this one. I LOVE the potential depth here though. The FO might still see Winder as a rotation arm, but they kept him as a long/middle man to begin 2022. Might they do so again? I think Sands has some nice stuff, but I could see him being a much better RP than starter. I don't know that I'd give up the very young Henriquez as a SP just yet, but his mix just screams out as an excellent BP piece. There's actually a lot to like here, and be optimistic about, even in regard to Pagan...which makes me shudder. I wouldn't be shocked if someone like Megill is sent to AAA once ST is done for Coulombe to be added as a 3rd LH BP arm. Nor would I be shocked for someone like Winder to be added for a role. I love the potential, and the depth. But I would have spent some $ for one more add to the pen that might pay off.

Hand has never been my 1st choice, but I've liked him as a relatively inexpensive option to add. The more I've looked at his final 2022 numbers, the more I liked Chafin or Moore as alternatives. Hand might have been performing magic tricks based on experience in 2022, but he sure didn't stink. He was still solid in his spits and kept hard contact down and kept the ball in the yard. We are at the point in the offseason now where 40 man rosters are full, and very few players or pitchers are going to get anything more than a milb deal and an invite with potential $. I'd rather call up Moore, offer him decent $ on a 1yr, and add him in a week when the 40 man can be adjusted to fit him in. I'd rather give him a shot to augment the pen instead of Hand based on better STUFF and the hope he can continue what he did in 2022. But I won't be upset at adding Hand on a deal that is either milb in nature, or isn't put in to place until ST begins. I mean, you only have a week to have a physical and sign a deal and move someone to the 60 day. Maybe he has one more good, solid, veteran season in that arm to help out Thielbar and the young Moran. Nothing wrong with taking a flier on him under those circumstances. Still, I think I'd rather spend a little more $ on Moore, no pun intended, on the same kind of deal with a potentially higher upside.

OK, I'll bite after reading everyone's opinion. I absolutely agree Gordon still has to prove he can adapt to swing issues and his BABIP numbers. I've been a supporter of his previously, and his 2021 and 2022 numbers indicate patience, opportunity, and continued development seemed to turn him in to a nice utility option. It was his nature to do the same thing in milb, start slow, and then adapt and produce better. He's done the same thing in his 1st 2 ML seasons. SUSTAINABILITY is a question we don't know until 2023 actually gets underway. Not sure that can be doubted by anyone. And despite Gordon being drafted as a top SS prospect, for whatever reason(s), he's clearly better as an OF with the ability to cover SS/2B here and there without embarrassing himself. And frankly, unless his bat/offense grows/maintains, I'm not sure how long he remains a Twin simply due to the number of options in the INF and OF available and arriving to a ballpark near you soon. That's up to Gordon. But I have to admit I see the logic in Ted's OP. Despite having virtually ZERO experience at the milb or ML level at 3B, Gordon does have a vast number of games played in the INF. Theoretically, he has the speed, quickness, and athleticism at 3B to just "get in front of the damn ball" and then make a throw with an arm that is still debatable, IMO. And just fielding the ball is #1. He is NO ANSWER to 3B in any manner. And I don't think Ted is saying that. I believe what's been said here is: if he continues to show he can hit RHP, and can cover 3B OK, shouldn't he be considered as an option if Miranda needs a day off or has a IL stint where he and Farmer can cover the spot for a week or so? I'd argue that Julien, on the 40 man, would be brought up if there was an actual IL stint. But I'd also argue that it would be smart to actually play Gordon at 3B in ST to just SEE if he could handle it. I have no doubt Farmer is the better defender. And I'm not of the belief Gordon has any future at the spot. But I'm also of the belief you try to maximize your roster to the greatest extent that you can. So yeah, I'd toss Gordon out at 3B in ST to just see if he can play it to any acceptable level. And if he can, and if he actually continues to hit and make a few things happen offensively, then I have another way to adjust my roster on a daily basis. A lot of IF's with Gordon to be sure, including this idea. But why not see if you can find a way to maximize your 13 man player roster in a new way? Isn't part of ST just seeing what you have?

I'm a bachelor and happy, but a bit of "bah, humbug" Valentine Day person. But this made me smile and LOL. Thanks for the hard work and the laughs. And to other contributions that did the same.

I didn't really like the 2020 draft all that much, though I saw/see some upside with the 3 position players. (Rosario might be the best). But I just loved the Raya pick the minute I read about him. I can't recall all of the details, but he seemed like a confident, athletic, kid who had performed well in HS and at all his various tournaments and camps. The stuff and potential stuff seemed to be there, despite a medium stature. I was really surprised he lasted until the 4th round as I read about him. I can only assume his size was what kept him from being selected higher. I was very disappointed when he didn't pitch in 2021, except on the side and in the development camp following the season. I think his early results are pretty amazing really. Skips rookie ball and goes straight to A where he puts up some really great numbers. And I'm not worried about the number of IP per start. Absolutely nothing wrong with nursing him a bit in his debut as a 19yo at A ball not letting it fly in game conditions for about a year and a half. As for Law, or anyone else, lamenting lack of a quality change for a yet to be 20yo, I can only say PLEASE. A change...whatever version is thrown...is a "feel" pitch that takes time to master, or at least be decent at. But with good velocity...potentially more as he fills out...and 3 breaking pitches that all look at least potentially solid if not good, I'm not worried about the quality of his change at this point. If his 3 breaking balls are as potentially good as various reports seem to state, I don't think that I would eliminate any of them just yet. Let's see how they look at least a year from now. Obviously, keep working on a form of a change. But the most important thing for him, as well as Prielipp, is getting a good 100 IP in 2023. I'd start him at Ft Myers and then move to CR a month or so in for a new challenge. I like Festa and Jaylen Nowlin a lot and can't wait to see what they do this season. There's 4-5 guys drafted last year I find very intriguing, who have barely seen a pro mound that I'm anxious to watch that all have a "something" about them when drafted. But isn't it fun to think about Raya and Prielipp both in the top 5 this time next year? NOTE: Unrelated, but since it was mentioned, I do agree with Law in cutting Balazovic slack due to his injury, recovery, the lockout, etc. I also offer a Mulligan for him in 2022.

A healthy Mahle, out of Cincinnati, has a good chance to be our best starter this season. And if that happens, I'd expect a quality extension offer.

Just an FYI, I like Gordon as well, and have been supporting and rooting for him for years. And I've been very impressed how he adapted to the OF on the fly. But he did not, in fact, adapt to the OF in 2022. His move began in 2021 and he appeared in 45 total games in the OF then.

I absolutely hate leaving Ober out of the rotation, but crunches happen when you have talent and depth. I like him better at St Paul, stretched out, and ready to go when needed. Over a full season, there's going to be ample room for that 6th arm. Isn't Kirilloff the biggest linchpin to the roster? Even allowing his wrist feeling nearly 100%, only adapting to general soreness in his recovery, it's still possible a month at AAA to get ramped up and fully confident might not be out of line. IF that happens, who fills that final spot? I don't see need for a third catcher, and Celestino not only needs the AAA time to work on his game/confidence/approach, but his defense isn't needed at the moment. Does that mean an early promotion for Julien? Does Garlick get added back to the 40 man to face LH? I'd say just 1 spot to be resolved, and hoping it won't matter as AK will be ready to go. Somewhat unfortunately, Pagan is a given since he was kept. I don't believe he has a long leash, however. Here's hoping the FO bites the bullet if we continue to see the same old Pagan that he's been for more than a couple years now. But I could see a move to include Coulombe in the pen when a roster spot opens. While I believe the Twins see Winder as a SP option still, they placed him in the pen for 2022 to give them that long man. Could they do so again? Maybe Sands begining to make a conversion? Betting they will keep Henriquez as a SP at AAA to begin the season to just keep working on his stuff. If they don't still add an arm, I could see someone like Megill at St Paul and keep Winder, or similar, to be that long/middle man. But it sure is nice to realize there are more options than questions as we begin ST.

Not to sound flippant or dismissive, but I'm not worried about Julien's defense, or a fixed position all that much. Now, I WANT good defense from all my ballplayers, as well as fundamentally strong. But not everyone, even on the best teams, is going to always be great both ways. Some are just defense first, or offense first players. Same with your bench. I picture Julien as being a very strong Arraez comp, though certainly not the same player. I doubt Julien ever becomes close to the same "hitter", but he seems to be a great comp OB% wise, but with more power, more speed, and healthier knees. Like Arraez, I see him as an OK defender at multiple spots. He seems destined for 1B and 2B would appear to be his best or most natural position at this point. And I'm OK with that. I would like to think he's athletic enough to also play some LF here and there. And if he's just not natural at 3B, and doesn't have the arm for it, I'm still OK. Of course, he just might be an outstanding, do-it-all DH from the offensive side of things. But you want him to be able to play some in the field without killing you, as you are going to want to rotate some through the DH spot for guys who are banged up a little...think Buxton...or need a half day off...think everyone else. I've seen enough of Larnach to fully believe he's going to one of the Twins starting corner OF, solid defensively, big arm, solid bat with real potential. How good he might be I don't know. While the jury remains out, as far as I'm concerned, I can easily see Martin in LF, covering CF, able to help a little at 3B/2B as needed, and being a fixture at the top of the lineup. Lee ends up at 2B/3B, Lewis the same, but also, possibly, in the OF picture. Miranda at 3B/1B/DH. And a hopefully healthy Kirilloff at 1B/DH as well. And that already creates a good lineup and depth possibilities, even before we talk about Julien, or whether Polanco remains with the Twins. So to me, I just want Julien to be able to fill in at a couple 2 or 3 spots adequately, as needed, as well as DH. He's got the potential to hit a lot of places in the lineup and contribute. But he remains a part of the overall roster construction, and I don't know that he necessarily has to fit in at a single spot. I just so want to see him and Martin at the top of the order and set the rest of 2-9 behind those two.

I don't fault the Twins philosophy in building a pen. You make trades, you convert starters that have stuff but don't fit the rotation role, and you take fliers on guys that maybe haven't "found it" yet, or had it before and might find it again. You work for the best back end 3 or 4 you can find and mix and match different options for the middle. (I think poor middle relief was a major issue in 2022). I really like the potential of this pen and don't think it's any kind of crazy stretch to seeing them being very good. And there are a lot of arms to help out and roll through as necessary, including a couple not even on the current 40 man. My issue is that while PAYING for a previously good RP guarantees zero, I simply wouldn't have trusted keeping Pagan around based on a SSS of low leverage and a new pitch. His removal alone would have freed up a 40 man spot to add another arm that would at least appear to be a more proven, reliable commodity. And when the Twins have done this much, spent this much, come this far, I just feel like they pulled up with a cramp while rounding 3rd and headed for home. Chaffin, Moore, and there were/are others, would cost $ but that one more arm wouldn't destroy payroll. And that one more arm might flame out and have a bad year. (See Addison Reed). But the risk would be worth the reward, IMO, to potentially deepen that back end, and overall depth. Moore or Chaffin instead of Pagan for a difference of $4-5M or so more than his $3.5M? I'd make that move EVERY DAY. And the Twins should have.

Agreed. The bench was built the way it was for a reason, defense and flexibility. No reason Farmer and Taylor shouldn't be in the lineup, optimally against a southpaw. But at least Gallo, potentially, provides almost equal splits. How much better is the entire lineup if we actually have a healthy AK and Larnach starting to reach their potential? Almost scary as a fan to hope, great against RH and solid vs LH. I dare to dream.

Yep. Good arguement. But we all know with a 13 man player roster, you simply can't, obviously, swap out and platoon at every spot. The good news is that, if healthy and just being their "normal" selves, Gallo, Larnach, and AK all hold strong against LH pitching...milb and SSS ML results. Taylor helps. One of Vazquez or Jeffers can also DH. And while I'm not crazy about the idea of Farmer in the OF, I think it's worth a shot to see how he looks in LF as an option. But maybe he's better at 3B and Miranda playing 1B? But then again, if Kirilloff is RIGHT does that make sense? On paper, Kepler is the LH bat you just don't want to see in the lineup, yes?

This. With all due respect intended, the only thing that keeps this from being "click bait" is the use of the word "WAS" in the headline. First of all, isn't EVERY SINGLE SEASON a microcosm unto itself? The Twins were a very good team that won 101 games! They were wildly entertaining and fun while setting a HR record. And didn't EVERYONE use the juiced ball that season? SECONDLY, you DON'T win more games than you lose, even with a juiced ball, unless you score more than the opposition. The Twins had a really solid pitching staff in 2019 that allowed that to happen. Chpettit19 laid out the exact parameters of the Twins pitching that season. THIRDLY, why does having a couple "rental" players diminish the production and winning of games? If that were remotely true, then we'd better examine every playoff team that DIDN'T WIN a WS and admonish their results and dismiss their accomplishments in those years due to "rental" players being involved. Isn't it the job of the FO to add ballplayers to make the best team they can that year? Don't all teams add 1yr rentals at some point? FOURTH. in EVERY sport, only ONE TEAM wins it all. And when that happens, they take home trophies and hang banners. And the regular season fades in to memory, and that's true. But not every 96-102 regular season winning team actually finished on top, regardless of the franchise. So to say those teams, or the 2019 Twins, would qualify as "overated" is not only a misnomer, but the opposite would have to be true as well, wouldn't it? The '87 Twins should then be guilty of being "overated". Same with many other WS winning teams including the Royals and Braves in recent history. IF we want to continue the arguement of overated and talk about sustainability, it's a slightly different arguement. Despite some roster turnover, the 2020 Twins were on another 100 win pace...based on a full season...and ended on something around a 96 or 98 win pace. (I object to playing a select schedule because you simply can't extrapolate that for everyone and an entire league). And if we're going to do that, we'll then, we need to start talking about some Doger, Yankees, Giants, and a whole bunch of teams that didn't win it all, and thus, should be considered overated. Again, every season should be evaluated as to whether it was good or bad, not whether you were the team to come out on top. Three playoff teams, a couple back to back, in 6yrs for the current FO, with some stinkers mixed in, including 2022, where the team was in 1st place in the ALC from May to early August before a rash of injuries where even MASH 4077 couldn't have put the team back together again. There's a lot of mid and lower market teams that would call that successful, and might argue they've had sustainable success. Do I want more and think/expect our FO and ownership expects/wants more? Absolutely. But there is no rapid plunge to mediocrity going on here in 6yrs, despite disappointment. Rentals, and Cruz, and Rosario from the Bomba Squad SHOULD have been replaced by Correa, Kirilloff, Larnach, etc, even Donaldson. It didn't work out. The staff, right now, looks like one of the best and deepest we've had in some time. Injuries have played a huge part in sustainability, as they did for the finish to 2019 where the Twins were limping in to the playoffs that year. Rookie Randy Dobnack starting a playoff game against the Yankees? How far down the rabbit hole of disappontment or "overated" and sustainability do we want to go? Sustainability is an ongoing arguement, despite the current 6yr stretch. But 2019 was NOT an overated team. They were HISTORIC. They were FUN. They were DAMN GOOD. They also ran out of steam and didn't win it all. But they are NOT overated.

Regarding Wallner, I'm not aware of him ever playing 1B. Can he learn the position? Maybe. He's not a bad athlete at all. He actually runs quite well and has that cannon of an arm. So I just can't add all that up and day he should be at 1B. BUT, only the Twins know if he has any promise at the position. After all, it's not as easy as saying "stand there and field balls". I think there are enough good options there to leave Wallner in the OF. And who knows, maybe the Twins think Larnach has the potential to play some 1B, even if Wallner doesn't. Again, they are closer to the situation than we are. From what I've read, and the little I've seen, Wallner has more than enough athleticism and range to be a solid OF with that great arm. But he's lacking SOMETHING defensively so far as he looks average at best, in SSS, to my eye. It might be just working a little more on tracking the ball and positioning. Kirilloff should be THE GUY long term, even IF he's better served begining 2023 at St Paul to get in a groove and continue to feel RIGHT. (Not saying he WON'T be ready opening day). Miranda actually got better at 1B in 2022 as the season wore on and he gained experience there. He's part of the future there as well, while still being able to play 3B. And we both, and others I suspect, believe Julien will be part of the future equation, sort of taking Arraez's role of not great defensively, but at least adequate at 3 or maybe even 4 spots. Gallo provides a probable short term option there. I love and believe in player flexibility for the roster. But I think Wallner is better off, at least for now, refining his OF defense, and continuing his offensive gains.

I need to see Gordon perform over time before I label him a starter, even though I'm a fan and have been supporter of his. But I like him in the OF and believe he will get better. He's OK at 2B and passable at SS. He's barely played 3B but I want to see him there in ST to see if he can play there once in a while. And his speed on the bases is outstanding. He just needs to be a little refined there. Farmer is a passable, decent starting SS, but an excellent reserve option. He can, and has, played across the entire infield and brings a pretty decent bat. He's even an emergency catcher! I don't know that I'm crazy about seeing him in LF, but I'd give it a try in ST. I think these two bring a lot to the table in regard to their versatility and solid offense But I like the whole bench. Taylor is an outstanding defensive OF who can hit a little, provide occasional pop, and still runs well even if he's not a big base stealer. Larnch as a backup OF and DH who plays almost every day with solid defense and a great arm? Yes please! (Still believe he's a full time starter sooner than later). Whether you like Jeffers and believe in his potential at a still young age, and only a little over 600 PA, or not, you have to love someone like him as the 2nd catcher, especially considering untapped potential. The Twins have, I believe, a very, very nice bench.

Don't sleep on Julien playing some 1B this year.

I agree with Ted's optimism. But I also agree with Seth's questioning that optimism as well. WHAT'S GOOD AND TO BE EXCITED ABOUT: 1] The entire pitching staff is the deepest and, overall, the most talented I've seen in a very long time 13-20, with some very interesting arms coming up the next couple of years, but not being counted on in 2023. 2] I like the potential of this lineup a lot, again, with some very exciting talent on the way to make their debuts in 2023, or return to action in the case of Lewis, or 2024 in regard to Lee, and a few others. 3] I like this defense better than last year. I like the depth and versatility presented, even though it wasn't put together quite the way I speculated when the offseason began. WHAT'S QUESTIONABLE AND TO BE WORRIED ABOUT: 1] Health! Surely the Twins are just due to not have such a cascade of injuries. Kiriloff is potentially very important to now and the future. Is he finally good and ready to go? Will he be so with an extra month to break up scar tissue and just get his wrist "in shape"? And yes, there are questions about many of those staff arms that we don't know for sure will be 100%. 2] As far as sustainability, some of those arms could be potentially gone after this year, or 2024. That means others have to step up and develop. If Gallo returns to his previous productive, powerful, high OPS self, he's only signed for 1yr. So let's examine both sides. Nothing prevents the Twins from re-signing one, or two of, Gray, Mahle, Maeda, or Lopez. The loss of 2, or even 3, adds $ to the coffers for a re-sign or two. Gallo, Kepler, and even throwing Polanco in to the mix, aren't expensive. But there are potential replacements, younger and less expensive, with a lot of potential to take their place soon and free up even more $. We ABSOLUTELY NEED some more of the young arms to continue to develop, and we all know the names. But Lopez is here next year regardless, Paddack will hopefully make a successful return, Ryan and Ober aren't going anywhere, etc. And I could name more than a handful of potential BP arms/converts that could be factors, possibly soon. Position player wise, there is hope for Kirilloff at this point, working through soreness, but not experiencing the same pain he had before. Hope is this is "normal" recovery discomfort as he continues his rehab. I don't recall Larnach having any significant injuries in college or during milb. His past two injuries are un-related. Is he also due for a full season? There is no guarantee for health for these 2, or future development/production for Lewis, Lee, Julien, Martin, Celestino, or Wallner. But when you have that many good looking prospects at the ML/AAA/AA level, I believe you mitigate disappointment simply due to the number of good prospects with potential. EXAMPLE: Kirilloff is still never right. A tragedy for him, and a big blow for the Twins. But Lee/Lewis at 3B and Miranda and very possibly Juien at 1B mitigates that disappointing loss simply because you have such a depth of young talent "right there". EXAMPLE 2: Gray and Maeda are gone after 2023, but Mahle is healthy and good and re-signed to a 3-4yr deal. They still have Lopez, Ryan, and Ober. Beyond that is what 2023 opportunity and development brings for Winder, Varland, SWR, Balazovic, and a number of other possibilities "rising". Within the system, the "problem" is that the young talent is at the ML/AAA level, and then drops down to A ball. There are some good looking AA prospects for 2023 that are interesting, might surprise, or could be solid role players. But there is a talent gap between the upper and lower levels. Of course, if the current top level talent comes through, said gap won't be an issue, and allows time for the lower level talent to arrive. Seth is right, even as big of an optimist as I am, that we need to SEE not only better health, but continued development AND production. 100% agree! But I think the counter arguement is obvious that when you have the pure NUMBERS of pitchers and players here, and close, starters and role player options, there is a really good possibility that this team IS poised for sustainability of good baseball and contention even if some guys never do turn out. I like the construction of this current team, but I'm not going to discuss my opinion potential W-L for 2023 at this point. Not the time or place. And I DO BELIEVE the best/smartest thing they could do is to re-sign at least one of their veteran arms, if not two. The proverbial bird in the hand arguement. But how does the old saying go? If you want 2 good SP, you need 6 prospects. Well, I think that applies to position players as well. I think the depth is there right now for these scenarios to work in the Twins favor.

The Gleeman comment at the end really broke me up! Was it last year or the year before he couldn't get a rental car due to an expired license? Priceless!

I don't hold 2021 against him at all. Like most everyone, he missed 2020 entirely, then was jumped to AA ball immediately, and then was bouncing all over the globe with the Olympics. So while I wasn't a fan, and had no idea what to expect for 2022, I was hopeful. I can't and won't deny his performance last season. Really, really good despite being so young, pitching at 2 levels, and also missing time due to covid. At 22yo, there is a pretty good chance he adds a little more muscle and his FB ticks up a little. He also seems to have a good feel for pitching to accomplish what he has thus far. And a solid 4 pitch mix is nice to have. Then comes the proverbial BUT. Velocity isn't everything. Deception and control and messing with timing is still more important. And a really good change can "add" velocity to a FB. But if he continues to really sit around 90, and doesn't add some velocity somewhere, I think he's a #3 at best. He doesn't have to throw 95-97+. But 90 is pretty low in today's game against today's hitters and his other pitches would have to be pretty sharp to be anything better than a #3 type. But again, he's only 22yo, and has a ton of room to grow, add MPH, harness and refine his curve and slider, and just get better and better. And it's not like I don't like the kid, or dismiss a really solid 2022. I just need to see more to feel he has any shot at being a front of the rotation guy, or a #3. But we need great #4 options as well at worst.

Agreed. But while the Twins aren't exactly blowing the roof off in yearly payroll, they haven't been shy about spending $ if they believe it makes sense. They've been pretty consistent about being around 16-18 in total team payroll, usually hovering around $140-150M ish to begin the season, going over a bit in final numbers when you factor in trades and some dead $. That might not sound overly impressive, but when you eliminate the top 8-10 large market teams and their $200-300M payrolls, the context of the rankings changes. They're right about $150M right now, before any additions or incentives paid out. Dropping another $7-8M for someone they THINK could make a difference doesn't blow anything up. The question is, do they believe Moore or Chafin could make enough of a difference to be worth that? I'd say yes, but I'm not in charge, LOL. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they set their sites lower and grabbed someone like Hand...not what he was, but still effective and coming off a solid year...on something like a 1yr for $5-6M.

I've been following the Twins milb system since the late 70's as a kid...best I could way before the internet...from snipets in the Trib, The Sporting News, Baseball Digest, and from a Twins paper that existed briefly in the mid to late 80's who's name I can't recall. There was a time in the 80's when the Twins had a collection of about 7 young arms in their top 10, all relatively high draft choices, and only one, Willie Banks, ever did much of anything. So you just never know. But I agree that sometimes the best choice is not the "safe" pick but the high upside selection. I was stoked when the Twins picked Canterino a few years ago. Unfortunately, even with a good surgery and a successful rehab, he might be destined for the pen to maximize his potential. And who knows, he might be outstanding for many years in that role, and that's still a positive. (I might still keep him in the rotation at first as a possible late arriving but still potentially good rotation arm). So there is no guarantee that Prielipp will turn out to be a really good ML SP, much less ACE caliber. But I love taking the shot at an arm that talented and the possible projection.

The odd thing about him is, I'm not worried about the TJ. He's young and medical science has developed so much over the past couple of decades...and still is...that I believe the STUFF that made him such an in demand recruit and top draft prospect, (did anyone not rank him as a 1st rounder pre-draft?), will still be there. Yes, he'll need to work on getting his control back and still working on his change, just like any young pitcher. But recovery of his arm from surgery isn't what really concerns me. What I worry about is the layoff and getting in 100 innings this year, even if it's a combined Extended ST and A ball regular game action. He gets in 100 IP and something else doesn't go "pop" from the almost 2 year layoff, I'm going to feel really good about his future prospects and reaching his potential. I think he's already got a good floor.

I KNOW it's slightly off topic, but when I read this, I couldn't help but reflect on the current 40 man roster and many of the top 10-20 prospects and just speculate about the Twins immediate future timeline. Position player wise, there are some givens such as Buxton, Vazquez, Jeffers, Correa, AND Miranda. I LOVE Polanco, but not sure I can make him "given" right now. While we still have to see better health...doesn't the worm have to turn at some point?...both Larnach and Kirilloff have been TOP prospects for a reason. And they've both looked very good in SSS when on the field. Lewis has already shown how good he might be at ANY position if his "smaller" injury is over and done. Lee looks like the real deal. How can anyone argue that Julien doesn't look like a future ML player? The jury is still out on Wallner and Martin. But the potential of Martin is real...OF and table setter and forget him being a 25+HR hitter for now...and Wallner needs some defensive improvement, but the bat has the potential to play at the ML level. He showed growth week by week and month by month in 2022. He didn't look out of place in his debut. He's got a chance. And I'm not even going to mention Celestino getting most, or all, of 2023 at AAA to refine his game and get back on track as a possibly good 4th OF offering. Position player wise, this team could have a very talented team now, in 2024 and beyond, and cost controlled, even with a few question marks. And I'm deliberately ignoring pitching as the OP is about Miranda, and the player roster. I restate, does it matter if Miranda can be a solid 3B and potentially be replaced by Lewis or Lee in the next year or so? No. Hell, someone might be traded. And if not, he can be outstanding as a 3B/1B/DH. That's not a bad thing! Do I want to see Polanco, one of my favorite players, moved? No. But it could happen in the next year or so because of the young talent knocking on the door. It's NEVER a bad thing when you appear to have "too much talent".

I understand and appreciate your consternation. And as I stated, I'd be fine with Chafin as well. But you have to consider 2 points: 1] Most quality RP...and most all of them in general...were "failed" SP for one of many reasons. And they found new life as a bullpen piece. Just speaking Twins history alone, you'd be looking at Aguillera, Tremblay, Perkins, just to name a few. So Moore's history as a failed SP shouldn't weigh on his potential to continue as a quality BP arm going forward. 2] When ST is about to start, anyone still on the market is probably not going to get some "max value" contract. They will "settle" for lower value, possibly even a 1yr deal. AND, just because a few teams went NUTS and overspent on a BP arm simply doesn't necessarily set a standard that the other 20+ teams are willing to pay. I wouldn't touch Moore, or any RP probably, for $10M unless he was proven and special. But I'd STRONGLY suggest $7-8M per on a 1-2yr deal for an arm with electricity wouldn't be a bad choice. And right now, there is a dearth of LH BP options for the Twins. Thielbar is great, and probably has more life left. Moran has a potentially great future, but has reverse splits and needs to get better against LH bats. Headrick is a SP option on the 40 man who MIGHT help or move to the pen. Coulombe is a non 40 man option AGAIN who can help, and probably will. After that, you've got 2 or 3 arms that pitched for AA last year that are intriguing, and MIGHT find themselves as viable options at some point late in 2023, or, more likely, as 2024 options. Again, I wouldn't drop $10M or so on Moore or anyone available. But I'd seriously consider something in the $7-8M range for a port sider that could push the bullpen from solid to potentially great.