One Prospect’s Powerful Swing Continues to Improve for the Saints

ugh... yet another example of why we need Buck in CF and not clogging up the DH spot

The Saints have been scoring a ton of runs, it would be nice to see some of the production with the Twins. 

hard to know with a guy like this. Maybe he just needed the development time and could be an asset in MLB. Maybe he's a AAAA player who can nuke AAA pitching but will get pushed around by MLB. It'll be interesting to see if he gets an opportunity.

It's always one of the hard calls, whether you can count on players like this to be our depth layer in AAA as a hedge against injury. Maybe he's figured something out that lets him make enough contact to let his power stroke play, but he was doing this in Wichita last season and then kinda stunk when he got promoted. He's hammering the ball right now, making good contact, drawing walks, and doing everything right at the plate...but his overall AAA slash line is good not "you must allow him to play in MLB NOW".

It would be great if he turns out to be a late-bloomer, though!

Sadly he will not likely get regular at-bats with us at MLB level.  Buck is taking up DH with what appears to be no plans ever to return him to OF.  AK is at 1B, but could move to OF.  So possible to move AK to OF get get Williams a chance at MLB level sometime. 

Yeah, drafted in the 8th round out of college just like Dozier was. I want to compare him to Dozier, but even Dozier was in the show by age 26.

The relative disadvantage for Williams is that the threshold for the bat is higher for a 1B,DH, and ‘emergency’ catcher. He’s really always hit, but it doesn’t seem that the twins or scouts/analysts really ever considered him a mlb catching prospect.

4 hours ago, tarheeltwinsfan said:

Williams was a catcher at Clemson and was drafted by the Twins as a catcher. Hmmm -   I wonder if he was a good defensive catcher with a good arm?

I don't know anything about him, but if that were the case I'm sure he'd be getting a lot of time behind the plate. Every team wants and needs good catching so I have to assume his performance was not of high enough caliber.

6 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

Rooker could use all the protection he can get right now. His .216/.306/.374 slash line since April ended has him looking like Max Kepler out there.

Actually those look a lot like Brent Rooker's numbers.

When "Paper Mache" Buxton gets hurt again (maybe he already got hurt today reaching for the soap while showering? It could've happened!), bring him up to get his feet wet. You never know.....and worst case scenario, he strikes out........just like Buck!!

38 minutes ago, DocBauer said:

Repeating what I posted previously in a milb thread, and touched on here, he was a starting catcher at Clemson until he had an arm injury. I can't recall if it was TJ or a shoulder issue. But he spent his senior season as a 1B/DH. Thus, he was a later pick who signed for the $10K minimum. And the Twins did work him at catcher initially. One of the Twins pitching prospects, Winder I think, spoke about working with Williams behind the plate and pretty much raved about him. (Year or so ago). While I can only speculate, and while catchers don't have to be great athletes to play the position, he either has something athletically limiting him behind the plate, OR, his arm has just never recovered. I'm betting it's the latter, which has lead him to the transition to being a 1B/DH, who CAN catch.

I LOVE to grab a piece of paper, even a napkin, and work out lineups on a consistent basis. It's my fanatical fandom, amateur GM persona. But there are always obvious restrictions. I mean, in this case, Williams is just going to fit as an OF, lol. And while I love me some prospects, and love Lee's potential, I've never seen him ready for 2023. He's always been 2024 and beyond in my personal prospectus. And there is a lingering question to be asked in the near future about the fate of Polanco, a tremendous player and one of my favorites, who's legs might just be 35yo even though the rest of him is yet to turn 30. Add in the fact that Lewis could, POTENTIALLY  be a stud at 2B, CF, or either corner OF, and things get more complicated.

Work with me and follow me here.

The VERY BEST INF the Twins could put together, really soon, is a combination of Correa at SS, Lee and Lewis at 2B/3B, and Kirilloff at 1B. Where does that leave Julien? Well, ideally, playing almost every day at 2B/1B/DH, and MAYBE some LF. Again, this leaves no room for Polanco. What about Miranda? I had high hopes he'd cover both INF corners and DH. AK can still play some corner OF as well. And for 2024 at least, Farmer would make a hell of a great utility player. What an amazing INFIELD!

BUT, despite being a bit of a late bloomer at 26yo...25yo in "prospect years" if you follow my standard covid missed year logic...Williams is showing a legitimate ML bat and hitting potential. He just might be a real 1B/DH talent who replaces Solano on the roster, even though they are very different players. But there probably isn't room for both he AND Miranda. So in theory, Williams and Miranda would be in competition for a RH power 1B/DH bat with Miranda being able to also play 3B...which might not be a big deal looking at the rest of the roster...and Williams being a functional 3rd catcher. And all of this variable roster construction still allows Lewis to maybe move to the OF, and for Kirilloff to also continue to play at least some corner OF.

Nice to have so much depth and so many options right? We aren't even talking about OF talent and depth, just so many options to have one of the best INFIELDS in all of MLB, even IF we dismiss Polanco,  which is NOT an easy IF. 

All that being said...the Buxton situation changes a TON of things, and lineup projections!

I am SO TIRED of, frankly, flippant thoughts that Buxton moving to CF cures everything. Byron will probably always be a bit of a streaky hitter. But DAMN is he good and dangerous when he's on! And he's one of the best CF I've ever seen. But if his knees and hip allowed him to play CF right now, don't you think he'd be out there? And conserving him this year, maybe he'll be there for the playoffs. And maybe he'll still play a greater CF role in 2024 and beyond and he will open up the DH spot at least part time.

It's so frustrating to hear demands to move him to CF tomorrow, with the expectation he will break down again, and also then hear complaints he can't be relied on. The Twins are trying to keep him healthy and productive as can be for 2023. NOBODY is saying his CF days are done. BUT...I think we all might have to accept that it might be true. From that point, it's up to Buck to FIND A ROUTINE AND ATTITUDE that ALLOWS him to be a bat only player. 

I don't know that anyone complained when Cruz was added as a DH only player for the Twins. I don't know that anyone complained when Molitor was brought on board years ago as a DH only. Pretty sure Boston never complained about a certain X Twin that converted to full time DH.

The problem with a full time DH is it restricts your 13 man roster. But if you have a special hitter for that spot, do we care? If  Buxton can "convert" mentally and physically to that role, he could be excellent. But it would mean building up the remaining 12 position players to be the best they could be, not unlike the AL for decades before the 26 man roster. And when you look at a potential lineup of names that include not only Buxton, but Lewis, Correa, Lee, Julien, Kirilloff, Larnach, Wallner and more than a few others, the future looks pretty bright if everyone just finds their place. 

Unfortunately, despite roster depth and versatility, a full time DH, Buxton in theory, provides one less spot for a position player. That's bad news for a potential bat like Williams. The good news is increased versatility from the rest of the roster might allow a bat like his to find a spot. And while I wish MLB would return to the covid 28 man roster as I believe it would make more sense in today's world of MLB, Williams has a shot if he can continue to do what he's doing. If you can continue to do what he's been doing, an opportunity will open for you. 

You named the problem without knowing it.  13 man roster.  Why the hell does a ball team need more than 7 relief pitchers? 

Best thing that could happen to Williams (from his perspective)  is that he is traded to a franchise that will actually give him a chance for regular major league ABs.  It’s probably what he hopes comes out of his good season this year.  Of course, we might be able to say the same thing for several other of our “top, but somehow won’t ever get a true opportunity” prospects. We all could name several who would likely jump at a Spencer Steer type of deal.

15 hours ago, Brett said:

Maybe next year if/when Gallo and Kepler are both gone and Kiriloff is playing more OF. I like the actual 3rd catcher angle, too, instead of having an emergency catcher only.

I'm not sure I see Kiriloff playing in the outfield at this point. I think, barring another unfortunate injury, he will be our first baseman for many years. 

Williams is a victim of our team's focus on big bats, they focus on this in drafting & development. In the past they'd also horde these players. I really don't know Williams potential at catching but because of lack of patience in that catching was hindering his hitting, it was abandoned. His best attribute is probablly is his bat but because of our glut at borderline cOF/1B/DH, he's better off to be traded.

4 hours ago, Karbo said:

That's what happens when you have a bunch of 1 and done RP. And when they do go 2 they need 3 days off before they can pitch again.

Another change in the game that's not for the better.

18 hours ago, DocBauer said:

Repeating what I posted previously in a milb thread, and touched on here, he was a starting catcher at Clemson until he had an arm injury. I can't recall if it was TJ or a shoulder issue. But he spent his senior season as a 1B/DH. Thus, he was a later pick who signed for the $10K minimum. And the Twins did work him at catcher initially. One of the Twins pitching prospects, Winder I think, spoke about working with Williams behind the plate and pretty much raved about him. (Year or so ago). While I can only speculate, and while catchers don't have to be great athletes to play the position, he either has something athletically limiting him behind the plate, OR, his arm has just never recovered. I'm betting it's the latter, which has lead him to the transition to being a 1B/DH, who CAN catch.

I LOVE to grab a piece of paper, even a napkin, and work out lineups on a consistent basis. It's my fanatical fandom, amateur GM persona. But there are always obvious restrictions. I mean, in this case, Williams is just going to fit as an OF, lol. And while I love me some prospects, and love Lee's potential, I've never seen him ready for 2023. He's always been 2024 and beyond in my personal prospectus. And there is a lingering question to be asked in the near future about the fate of Polanco, a tremendous player and one of my favorites, who's legs might just be 35yo even though the rest of him is yet to turn 30. Add in the fact that Lewis could, POTENTIALLY  be a stud at 2B, CF, or either corner OF, and things get more complicated.

Work with me and follow me here.

The VERY BEST INF the Twins could put together, really soon, is a combination of Correa at SS, Lee and Lewis at 2B/3B, and Kirilloff at 1B. Where does that leave Julien? Well, ideally, playing almost every day at 2B/1B/DH, and MAYBE some LF. Again, this leaves no room for Polanco. What about Miranda? I had high hopes he'd cover both INF corners and DH. AK can still play some corner OF as well. And for 2024 at least, Farmer would make a hell of a great utility player. What an amazing INFIELD!

BUT, despite being a bit of a late bloomer at 26yo...25yo in "prospect years" if you follow my standard covid missed year logic...Williams is showing a legitimate ML bat and hitting potential. He just might be a real 1B/DH talent who replaces Solano on the roster, even though they are very different players. But there probably isn't room for both he AND Miranda. So in theory, Williams and Miranda would be in competition for a RH power 1B/DH bat with Miranda being able to also play 3B...which might not be a big deal looking at the rest of the roster...and Williams being a functional 3rd catcher. And all of this variable roster construction still allows Lewis to maybe move to the OF, and for Kirilloff to also continue to play at least some corner OF.

Nice to have so much depth and so many options right? We aren't even talking about OF talent and depth, just so many options to have one of the best INFIELDS in all of MLB, even IF we dismiss Polanco,  which is NOT an easy IF. 

All that being said...the Buxton situation changes a TON of things, and lineup projections!

I am SO TIRED of, frankly, flippant thoughts that Buxton moving to CF cures everything. Byron will probably always be a bit of a streaky hitter. But DAMN is he good and dangerous when he's on! And he's one of the best CF I've ever seen. But if his knees and hip allowed him to play CF right now, don't you think he'd be out there? And conserving him this year, maybe he'll be there for the playoffs. And maybe he'll still play a greater CF role in 2024 and beyond and he will open up the DH spot at least part time.

It's so frustrating to hear demands to move him to CF tomorrow, with the expectation he will break down again, and also then hear complaints he can't be relied on. The Twins are trying to keep him healthy and productive as can be for 2023. NOBODY is saying his CF days are done. BUT...I think we all might have to accept that it might be true. From that point, it's up to Buck to FIND A ROUTINE AND ATTITUDE that ALLOWS him to be a bat only player. 

I don't know that anyone complained when Cruz was added as a DH only player for the Twins. I don't know that anyone complained when Molitor was brought on board years ago as a DH only. Pretty sure Boston never complained about a certain X Twin that converted to full time DH.

The problem with a full time DH is it restricts your 13 man roster. But if you have a special hitter for that spot, do we care? If  Buxton can "convert" mentally and physically to that role, he could be excellent. But it would mean building up the remaining 12 position players to be the best they could be, not unlike the AL for decades before the 26 man roster. And when you look at a potential lineup of names that include not only Buxton, but Lewis, Correa, Lee, Julien, Kirilloff, Larnach, Wallner and more than a few others, the future looks pretty bright if everyone just finds their place. 

Unfortunately, despite roster depth and versatility, a full time DH, Buxton in theory, provides one less spot for a position player. That's bad news for a potential bat like Williams. The good news is increased versatility from the rest of the roster might allow a bat like his to find a spot. And while I wish MLB would return to the covid 28 man roster as I believe it would make more sense in today's world of MLB, Williams has a shot if he can continue to do what he's doing. If you can continue to do what he's been doing, an opportunity will open for you. 

You do realize that Buxton has incurred significant IL time in his career for things that didn’t happen while playing CF, right?  HBP, sliding into bases, pulling muscles running to first.  He crashed into a wall a couple of times and got a concussion diving for a ball.  He just sat out a couple of weeks for a HBP.

He’s a pretty good hitter.  He’s not an elite one.  We’re not talking about Mike Trout, here.  But, he might be the best defensive CF if all time.  You’re comparing that to a 42 year old Nelson Cruz and Paul Molitor who would’ve been absolute butchers in the field?

What makes you think this plan is working so far?  Have you seen his numbers?  How many games has he missed this year?  How does his projected WAR type numbers compare to years when he was 5, 6, 7 WAR seasons as a CFer.  Why would you assume he’s going to be there for the playoffs this year?  What makes you think this team will even be in the playoffs this year?  After all these years, what makes you think Favline and Baldelli’s ideas are golden and the best course?  

Hes far more valuable when he’s playing defense.  There is no precedent set that says otherwise.  None.  That’s where he should be.  20 extra games per year as a DH K’ing 40% of the time and OPSing league average does not increase his value. He’s performed better offensively in the past when playing in the field as well.  This experiment is what’s flippant.  It’s absurd.  He’s a generational defensive talent that’s being wasted because of some irrational fear (the injuries are still there).

Lastly, as you said, which was spot on - it’s restricting the roster to a point where it’s damaging the team.  It’s a double whammy.  It’s suppressing his value and taking another potential dangerous bat out of the lineup.

Bottom line.  It is not making the team better.  It is not getting them closer to a championship in any way.  It’s making the team worse.

Williams was drafted in the 8th round of 2018 same year jeffers was drafted in the 2nd  ...

I have been following Williams for a few years and he does seem like a late bloomer if you compare him to jeffers  ( jeffers debuted in 2020 ) , Williams been a slugger in the minor leagues and now since he reached AAA  last year has primarily played first base and DH  ...

If the twins are going to keep him and not trade him , I'd like to see a late season call up and see if he can adjust to MLB pitching  ....

How long has it been since we had a power hitting first basemen ( Morneau  ) , and he's a right-handed bat , something the Twins need over garlick ...