Trust The Process And The Stats

i used to decry the ridiculous salaries for sports stars. then, many years ago, a friend changed my perspective. "the money is there," he said. "the alternative is ownership getting it all."

All that tends to prove is that as age has caught up with him, he is unable to maintain his edge like he could even 5 years ago. He can still be productive in short bursts when he gets adequate rest. But he simply is incapable of maintaining production consistent with his lineup spot if he plays too much. IMO all the rain outs have kept him fresh.

I would suggest it's not just Twins fans who turned against Mauer.  When his numbers started going down, we heard an awful lot of whispers from the clubhouse and "unnamed Twins sources" suggesting Mauer wasn't working hard enough, that his injuries were phony, that he was lazy, etc., etc.  I would suggest that when the numbers went down, much of the Twins organization, from the front office to the manager to the broadcasters to some of the players, turned against Mauer.

I think the same people who are angered by Mauer's $23 million salary are the same people who are hate ticket prices at Target Field and claim "I built Target Field with MY TAX DOLLARS".   As if somehow they were personally hoodwinked in these matters, and now they are worse off because of it.   Always struck me as a weird thing to be angry about.

Mauer's salary hasn't ever bothered me - poor play bothers me.  He's been better this month and I'm happy about it.  He's always been reliable in his career when healthy, and I think batting him between 2-5 in the lineup makes sense at this time.  He's certainly going to go down in history as one of the Twins' all time greats, no argument.

 

But it’s time for Twins fans to start realizing what we have seen in Joe Mauer since his debut as a 20-year-old back in 2004. He’s one of the top five hitters in Minnesota Twins’ history, a history that is approaching 60 seasons. We almost forget the Gold Gloves he won behind the plate, or how good he has become at first base now.

 

I don't agree with that.  Sure, in terms of WAR he is.  But WAR inflates his value because he was a catcher, but that isn't what the statement is saying.  The statement is he is one of the five best hitters, to me that means independent of position.  Killebrew, Carew and Puckett were clearly superior.  I would make the case for Kent Hrbek and Tony Oliva.  Hrbek had the plate discipline of Mauer, but power that Mauer only showed for one season in his career.  Oliva had the elite level batting average and at times also showed upper echelon power.  Both Hrbek and Oliva also were better run producers.  At the end of the day the goal of the offense is to score runs.  When people talk about all time great Twins hitters one name that often gets ignored is Bob Allison.  His career OPS+ is 127, exactly the same as Joe Mauer's.  One could also make a case, again POSITION INDEPENDENT, that Justin Morneau was a better hitter.  Certainly more productive.  Mauer has played 3 more seasons than Morneau did with the Twins but Morneau still has more RBI.

So, in short, I would peg Mauer as the 7th best hitter for the Twins all time.

Who cares.   Stats, success, failure.  Mauer no longer is evaluated he is only paid.

 He has one more year on his deal and as long as he is healthy the Twins will trot him out on the field.  Then the Twins will move on.  I hope Mauer retires after 2018 rather than continuing on in diminished form.

I mean, all in all, Mauer could have struggled as opposing pitchers put most of the focus on him and now that the Twins lineup is overall doing better with guys like Sano, Kepler, Polanco, etc....  not necessarily in that order maybe Joe is again a benefactor of being in a good lineup.  I predict that if those guys continue to hit around Joe, that Joe will have a much better year than in the last 3 or so years.  Think back to when Joe was a monster, he had the likes again not necessarily in this order, but Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, Jim Thome, Torii Hunter, etc.....  When those guys and many more were hitting around Joe, obviously he couldn't be the total focus of a pitching staff.  Maybe it is just getting back to that once again??  

I don't agree with that.  Sure, in terms of WAR he is.  But WAR inflates his value because he was a catcher, but that isn't what the statement is saying.  The statement is he is one of the five best hitters, to me that means independent of position.  Killebrew, Carew and Puckett were clearly superior.  I would make the case for Kent Hrbek and Tony Oliva.  Hrbek had the plate discipline of Mauer, but power that Mauer only showed for one season in his career.  Oliva had the elite level batting average and at times also showed upper echelon power.  Both Hrbek and Oliva also were better run producers.  At the end of the day the goal of the offense is to score runs.  When people talk about all time great Twins hitters one name that often gets ignored is Bob Allison.  His career OPS+ is 127, exactly the same as Joe Mauer's.  One could also make a case, again POSITION INDEPENDENT, that Justin Morneau was a better hitter.  Certainly more productive.  Mauer has played 3 more seasons than Morneau did with the Twins but Morneau still has more RBI.

 

So, in short, I would peg Mauer as the 7th best hitter for the Twins all time.

    Like Oliva I tend to weigh more on how he did when healthy which was a .320 average and upper .800s OPS.     Three batting titles puts him up there.    I certainly disagree that Puckett or Carew were clearly superior.     If you go by OPS plus then Killebrew is better but its a little apples to oranges.    Its all a little more subjective than it should be.    I mean is it average, at their best, overall, power, longevity, OPS, OPS+?    Shane Mack had 5 better seasons statistically than Puckett's average but he wasn't even ranked in the top 25 Twins.    How do you judge it?     Personally I would go with Killebrew, Oliva, Carew, Mauer, Puckett in no particular order but probably pretty  close to that order.    Morneau, Hrbek, Mack, Hunter, Knoblach after that in no particular order but probably pretty close to that order.

Imagine a local baseball player that is great, right out of high school, gets drafted by the home team, plays his whole career in his home state, wins batting titles, gold gloves, and plays clutch baseball nearly every game. 

That's why I'm still mad that the Padres got Dave Winfield, dang it! Draft Hunter Greene! Revenga!

Oh, and Mauer is great, too. ;-)

One thing I think is lost in all the criticism of Mauer... what would the Twins have done with that extra money? How many fans would have left if they hadn't re-signed him in his prime? 23 million dollars would have been good enough for what, 2 Ricky Nolascos? The contract had to be signed, both for baseball and PR purposes, and hasn't really negatively impacted the Twins' payroll as much as some people allege. 

I'm glad he isn't too old to bring on a good season now, to boot, mostly because that means I might still have a little bit of gas in the tank too. 

Serious question: Did you read the article at all?

Pretty sure it laid out how Mauer isn't as diminished as some hope he is...

I read the article.  You can make whatever arguments you want, but it is without a doubt that Mauer is diminished.  It has been 4 seasons since he last had a batting average above 300, a OBP above 400, a slugging pct above 400, and a OPS above 800.

And maybe that is too high of a standard to hold him too.  But, at the same time he is a first baseman, not a catcher or in reality any other important position in the defensive spectrum, and at his age and injury issues first base is the only position he can really play.  As a first baseman his offensive statistics are terrible.   He has not hit more than 11 home runs since 2009, which other than the 13 he hit is 2006 were the only years above 11 HRs.  His overall power numbers poor, less than 30% of his hits are for extra bases and it has again been 4 years since he has 30% extra base hits.

More importantly, he takes up a position the Twins really need to get playing time for players taht should be up in the major leagues.  I get the Twins are not going to eat a $23 million contract and having Mauer on the team helps a bit at the gate and is an all-time Twins player.  But there is no denying the team would have one more leg up on rebuilding without him.  

He has no trade value so there really are limited options.  Let him finish out his contract and then let the team move on from a local sports hero.  I hope he only plays for the Twins and I think all of the money the Twins have paid him in the twighlight of his career can buy that from him.

The point of this article isn't to say that he's turned some corner... It really was mainly to illustrate that despite the bad numbers in April, a deeper dive shows that there was reason for optimism, reason to believe that he could take off again.

 

I have no idea what he'll do the rest of the year. We'll see. I agree with above that noted that he has probably been helped by the rain outs. I do think it's going to be important to give him days off. While I think he's a better player now than Vargas, and I think Mauer would be fine against most lefties, but to keep his legs strong, they have to give him the time off.