Do the Twins Have the Best Lineup in the American League?

I think the difference between catcher and right field for Houston versus the Twins and Yankees edges them down to 3rd place for me.

1) NYY

2) Twins

3) Asterisks

This is absolutely a fun debate.  We should make a series out of this, maybe do WAR next.  And we should also compare bench bats as well.  We are pretty stacked there too.  That matters in determining offensive fire power too.  I am sure there are likely other aspects to judget the offenses on as well.  

The answer? Yes!

This was a really interesting, though subjective review.  My only complaint is that Correa DESTROYS Polanco.  It’s not even close.  Yes, there is the injuries, but you weren’t comparing stats, you were grading their ability.  Also, you are assuming the 35 yr old Gardner will start in CF....not Aaron Hicks?  Does a healthy Hicks beat out a healthy Buxton.....that would be an interesting debate.

The “cheating Astros” comments overall are getting old.  Are we really to believe that José Altuve would turn into Steve Lombardozzi without the banging?  Come on.

Cheating is bad, of course, always.  We live in a broken world here.  But the best players are still the best.

Altuve: One World Series Championship cheating.  Lombardozzi: One World Series Championship not cheating. How do you want to raise your kids?

Considering it’s been proven the Astros have cheated, and the Yankees have been implicated, I’ll take the Twins lineup once things get cleaned up.

Yes, the cheating made a difference. If you don’t think so, I don’t know what to tell. Would Altuve stink without cheating? Of course not. But, claiming he would still be as good is just a terrible take. Of course they were wearing buzzers (if you believe Altuve’s “shy” narrative about the his jersey, may the Lord help you out in the real world). The Astros have to be considered a sham until they can show otherwise.

Also, it’s really hard for me take the Yankees seriously when they play in that joke of a ballpark. Put Aaron Judge in Target Field and he probably has 10 fewer home runs (a lot of his HRs would get eaten up by that scoreboard in right center). Gleyber Torres is a total fraud and cheater like Altuve, and I’m positive that it’ll come out at some point. Stanton, Judge, and LeMaheiu are legitimate hitters, but that ball park helps them and nobody else in that lineup scares me a whole lot when they’re not cheating.

Level the playing field and the Twins have the best lineup in baseball. I’d stack Garver, Cruz, Donaldson, and Sano against anyone in the planet. What’s also lost on some is that the Twins still have room to grow. Buxton could break out offensively. Rosario could go back to his 2017 form. Miguel Sano could rake for the entire season, instead of half. Garver could get more PAs. These other lineups, I feel, have sort of “peaked.” I think the Twins lineup has plenty of room to improve.

Forecasting is hard, and I can't take much issue with these views. My strongest disagreement would be about Houston's DH - Alvarez could wind up leading the league in OPS. Much as I like our guy, Cruz may not be able to keep up with that, even at his best.

 

Our young guys could take a step forward, or they could regress from career-years. But same is true for other teams. This study serves to remind me how hard it is to be the best - these are some seriously potent offenses, and it's pretty good to be mentioned in the same breath with them. Points up to me how we can't rely on our position players to carry all the load, the pitching needs to be top-notch too if we hope to make serious noise in the post-season.

Just my opinion, you could be right. But, it’s just as likely that Alvarez comes back down to earth without a buzzer on. Or, that he levels off as the league gathers more scouting reports (same argument I make against Arraez continuing to hit .350).

That said, I think Cruz is a ticking time bomb. Having the ability to hit the ball is one thing. Cruz can clearly still do that. But, at some point your body just shuts down. Soft tissue and joint injuries pile up and take much longer to heal, no matter the amount of preparation.

Interesting conversation.

Yes

Total OPS+ for these lineups:

Twins: 1174

Yankees: 1012

Asterisks:  1169

Case closed.  No Twin under 100.

This is a GREAT debate.  I agree, let's visit this several times over the coming season.  Clearly, you've identified the top 3 teams.  But there are so many nuances with each lineup that it could be any of the 3.  There will be a lot of "prove it" to me with the Astros lineup this year, but there is no doubt they have some studs.  What the Yankees did last year offensively with all those injuries is terrifying.  What if Stanton & Judge are healthy for a whole season?  What if Andujar gets 550 AB's? (that kid can flat out HIT).  What is the ceiling for Gleybor Torres?  Can Urshela even come close to 2019?  And on the Twins side...what if Buxton plays in 150 games?  Can Garver repeat?  What is the ceiling for Sano ?  Can Cruz keep it up ?  This season should be LOTS of FUN !!!

With our lineup, plus electronically stealing signs, the Twins can play even with Houston!

Factor in balance and speed, I'd put the Twins about 12.

Total OPS+ for these lineups:

 

Twins: 1174

Yankees: 1012

Asterisks:  1169

 

Case closed.  No Twin under 100.

Two comments:

One: using the total OPS+ instead of ranking each position improves the accuracy of this analysis, and I think including stadium and cheating factors would move this total this even more in the Twins' favor.

Two: I will henceforth refer to the Houston MLB team using this name.

As a team, Houston's batting OPS was higher on the road than it was at home in both 2017 and 2018. Higher at home in 2019. If they're healthy, they'll be plenty good offensively.

It's plenty fine with me that the Twins are even in the conversation...which they undoubtedly are. 

Altuve: One World Series Championship cheating.  Lombardozzi: One World Series Championship not cheating. How do you want to raise your kids?

Hyperbole much? I don't think I'll choose stealing signs in major league baseball games as the criterion against which I'll determine that Altuve is scum and Lombardozzi is a great guy. Then again, I think I might be in the minority here.

Hyperbole much? I don't think I'll choose stealing signs in major league baseball games as the criterion against which I'll determine that Altuve is scum and Lombardozzi is a great guy. Then again, I think I might be in the minority here.

You are not alone!

Hyperbole much? I don't think I'll choose stealing signs in major league baseball games as the criterion against which I'll determine that Altuve is scum and Lombardozzi is a great guy. Then again, I think I might be in the minority here.

I have no idea if Altuve is "scum", or what kind of guy Lombardozzi is.

But, anyone who systematically cheats is devoid of character.

Factor in balance and speed, I'd put the Twins about 12.

:ESPN has entered the Chat

Hyperbole much? I don't think I'll choose stealing signs in major league baseball games as the criterion against which I'll determine that Altuve is scum and Lombardozzi is a great guy. Then again, I think I might be in the minority here.

Hyperbole maybe. He's also not wrong

Could just imagine if Sanó heard a trash can banging and laying off breaking balls low and away and forcing only fastballs to be thrown to him what the comparison would have been between him and Bregman (prior to moving to first this year)...

Considering it’s been proven the Astros have cheated, and the Yankees have been implicated, I’ll take the Twins lineup once things get cleaned up.Yes, the cheating made a difference. If you don’t think so, I don’t know what to tell. Would Altuve stink without cheating? Of course not. But, claiming he would still be as good is just a terrible take. Of course they were wearing buzzers (if you believe Altuve’s “shy” narrative about the his jersey, may the Lord help you out in the real world). The Astros have to be considered a sham until they can show otherwise.Also, it’s really hard for me take the Yankees seriously when they play in that joke of a ballpark. Put Aaron Judge in Target Field and he probably has 10 fewer home runs (a lot of his HRs would get eaten up by that scoreboard in right center). Gleyber Torres is a total fraud and cheater like Altuve, and I’m positive that it’ll come out at some point. Stanton, Judge, and LeMaheiu are legitimate hitters, but that ball park helps them and nobody else in that lineup scares me a whole lot when they’re not cheating. Level the playing field and the Twins have the best lineup in baseball. I’d stack Garver, Cruz, Donaldson, and Sano against anyone in the planet. What’s also lost on some is that the Twins still have room to grow. Buxton could break out offensively. Rosario could go back to his 2017 form. Miguel Sano could rake for the entire season, instead of half. Garver could get more PAs. These other lineups, I feel, have sort of “peaked.” I think the Twins lineup has plenty of room to improve.

Yeah! If you take away cheating the Twins are #1. Besides Astos, NY Yankees & Red Sox were warned about using electronic devices. Cheating should be better patrolled & more severely punished (like forfeit of game). Any suspicions should be able to contest & scanned for devices

Hyperbole much? I don't think I'll choose stealing signs in major league baseball games as the criterion against which I'll determine that Altuve is scum and Lombardozzi is a great guy. Then again, I think I might be in the minority here.

Thanks Carew, you got the point that I was trying to make!  I just messed up and referenced someone with a ring from a beloved Twins team, rather than a goat like Pedro Florimon or someone like that.

....though having actually watched Lombo play, the idea of he being mentioned in the same breath, talent-wise, is so beyond ludicrous.