I'm done with Plouffe!!!

[Oxtung]

Without a doubt I would put more stock in Dozier's results. In the case of Dozier, there is a clear date to draw the line where he changed as a hitter. Before that point, he sucked. After that point, he became an .800 OPS hitter. During that rapid uptick in performance, he was working with Bruno and they found a hitch in his timing. They fixed it three months ago and wham, he's a different hitter now. That can't be a coincidence. The two events coincide perfectly and after three months of consistent performances, I think it's safe to say that Brian Dozier is now an above-average second baseman.

 

Now, that doesn't mean he'll continue to OPS at .850 for several years but I'm pretty comfortable in saying that we've seen the real Brian Dozier over the past several months.

 

Plouffe, on the other hand... *shrugs*

 

I don't get the guy.

 

Didn't we say the same things about Plouffe last year during his power binge though? I am pretty sure I remember an article by Parker breaking down Plouffe's approach at the plate and showing how he changed something and that was leading to more power and contact. It would be interesting, if Parker were to break Plouffe down again, if something has yet again changed in his mechanics.

 

I guess I fall into the optimistic but wait and see catagory with Dozier. Plouffe....well I don't know what to think about him.

[Mike Sixel]

I guess I fall into the optimistic but wait and see catagory with Dozier. Plouffe....well I don't know what to think about him.

 

This

[diehardtwinsfan]

I haven't bought into either of them, and I haven't sold out on either of them either. Both have the potential to be above average hitters if they figure things out, and I think both will get time in 2014 to prove themselves. Plouffe may be on a shorter leash, especially is Sano is mashing in Rochester, though if he can out perform Parm/Cola/Presley/Hicks, then he could shift to first or LF.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Didn't we say the same things about Plouffe last year during his power binge though? I am pretty sure I remember an article by Parker breaking down Plouffe's approach at the plate and showing how he changed something and that was leading to more power and contact. It would be interesting, if Parker were to break Plouffe down again, if something has yet again changed in his mechanics.

 

I guess I fall into the optimistic but wait and see catagory with Dozier. Plouffe....well I don't know what to think about him.

 

I think one of the key differences is consistency. Plouffe was good (ridiculously good) for 30-40 days before the injury, after which he never recovered.

 

Dozier, on the other hand, has been doing this for a little over half a season. He had a downtick in July but still posted an OPS of .715, which was still better than any month he posted when he was "struggling". He immediately bounced back in August and posted another .800+ OPS month. He's doing the same in September. If he finishes the season like this, he will have posted an .800 OPS for 2/3rds of a season, or about four months.

[ThePuck]

Dozier is playing exceptional defense and has an OPS+ over 100. I'll take that from a MI...especially someone who hasn't even hit his prime yet and is just getting accustomed to the major leagues.

[Lonestar]

His splits before and after the all-star break are incredible.

 

Pre- AS Break: .263/.323/.445 with 10 HRs in 238 AB's

Post AS Break: .174/.238/.280 with 2 HRs in 132 AB's

 

Pretty incredible how bad he's been. I could live with the first half Plouffe any day. An almost .800 OPS while playing average defense is pretty valuable at 3b. I don't know what has changed, but I sure hope he can have a good September... or he wont be around very long.

In either case we are talking SSS, but there seems to me to be a special cause, just like last year's thumb injury. It could be another injury. It could be the Biogenesis distraction -- given his friendship with Ryan Braun. [i don't mean to muddy the waters with PED speculation.]

 

Plouffe stopped hitting after July 3. Perhaps he has restarted hitting now.

 

[TABLE=width: 255]

[TD=class: xl65, width: 83, bgcolor: transparent] BB/AB

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl65, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent] K/AB

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl65, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent] BB/K

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl65, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent] BABIP

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl65, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent] Iso P

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent] 0.086

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent] 0.188

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent] 0.459

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent] 0.281

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent] 0.188

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl67, width: 83, bgcolor: transparent] 0.058

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent] 0.284

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent] 0.204

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl67, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent] 0.265

[/TD]

[TD=class: xl66, bgcolor: transparent] 0.137

[/TD]

[/TABLE]

 

I am optimistic about Plouffe. 2014 will essentially be his age 27 season since his birthday is June 15. Let us see what he can do. Josh Willingham didn't get a regular gig in the major until his age 27 season.

[woody knows all]

Lets not get too excited about Plouffe. The Astros are the worst team in baseball. Just like we shouldn't talk about trading Mauer because Pinto has had 2 good games.

[Kwak]

Plouffe doesn't inspire confidence. However, the Twins are slow to give-up on a "golden-boy". I am absolutely convinced that he is the starting 3B next Spring, and will be on the bench as insurance when Sano is promoted to the Twins. I couldn't guess who gets "written-off" to make way for Sano [to retain Plouffe], maybe it will come after a July trade or something. I'll just cross my fingers and hope that Sano succeeds both as a hitter and as a 3B man.

[Brock Beauchamp]

Plouffe doesn't inspire confidence. However, the Twins are slow to give-up on a "golden-boy".

 

I don't know where you get the information that he's a golden boy. The only rumblings I've heard from the Twins about Plouffe have been neutral to negative. I get the impression that they're playing him because they have no other options.

[Kwak]

I don't know where you get the information that he's a golden boy. The only rumblings I've heard from the Twins about Plouffe have been neutral to negative. I get the impression that they're playing him because they have no other options.

 

I cite his career prior to his "breakout period" of ~20 HR in 5 weeks. Consider: his '11 tryout was disappointing; his '12 Spring training was lacklustre; another SS attempt at the start of '12 didn't work out--but RF was made available to him despite the Twins actually having trained OFers; his RF experience ended with a BAVG about .120-.130, but when the Twins had enough of Valencia (which was warranted!), wait-for-it--yes give Plouffe a shot at 3B. BTW, Luke Hughes who sizzled in Spring training was quickly dismissed when he didn't hit in April--but Plouffe gets chance after chance. To me, that meets the definition of "golden boy"--opportunity after opportunity after every failure. It's was great he had that "breakout", but in no way could that have been predicted. Yet still today he is fully expected to get a line-up spot next season with a juicy raise.

[jorgenswest]

The median team 3B wOBA is .305. Plouffe sits at .313 with below average fielding. He is young enough to become more consistent. He is old enough and experienced enough that we might be seeing close to his best.

 

I would give him until June 15 next year.

[TheLeviathan]

The biggest difference between Dozier and Plouffe is that one is a good middle infielder. The other was closer to Nishioka than Dozier when he played middle infield.

[Alex]

An interesting article regarding hitter's peaks with different aspects of hitting. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/hitters-age-like-wine-power-like-cheese/ Especially interesting may be the isolated power numbers.

 

I posted this as I think it is relevant to discussions about Plouffe and Dozier and their current power.

[Riverbrian]

I just watched the highlights of today's game... Plouffe busted his butt down the line on a close play at first and dove head first into the bag.

 

You probably shouldn't dive into 1B but he was a collision course with Carter and he had to dive to avoid that.

 

Anyway... I appreciated him getting his jersey dirty. I'll let him come a few feet out of my doghouse.

[Kwak]

Maybe Plouffe has read this thread?

[Shane Wahl]

Plouffe may really only have a future with the Twins as a super corner utility guy and/or platoon with Parmelee at first or right field against lefties.

[Shane Wahl]

And, by the way, I do think it is high time to start using platoons if they are keeping the Plouffes, Parmelees, and Colabellos around. Mastro and Presley may be another one.

[Mike Sixel]

"platoon", what is that word?

[CharacterGroove]

I cite his career prior to his "breakout period" of ~20 HR in 5 weeks. Consider: his '11 tryout was disappointing; his '12 Spring training was lacklustre; another SS attempt at the start of '12 didn't work out--but RF was made available to him despite the Twins actually having trained OFers; his RF experience ended with a BAVG about .120-.130, but when the Twins had enough of Valencia (which was warranted!), wait-for-it--yes give Plouffe a shot at 3B. BTW, Luke Hughes who sizzled in Spring training was quickly dismissed when he didn't hit in April--but Plouffe gets chance after chance. To me, that meets the definition of "golden boy"--opportunity after opportunity after every failure. It's was great he had that "breakout", but in no way could that have been predicted. Yet still today he is fully expected to get a line-up spot next season with a juicy raise.

 

A benefit of being a 1st Round selection is that you have a longer leash. This will be true for any team, not just the Twins. The amount of time/money teams spend on these guys encourages the full exhaustion of options.

 

Plouffe had the edge on Hughes (and others) from the start. And to be fair, Plouffe has shown a ceiling high enough to probably justify a spot in the lineup. Until this year, that is.

[Brock Beauchamp]

A benefit of being a 1st Round selection is that you have a longer leash. This will be true for any team, not just the Twins. The amount of time/money teams spend on these guys encourages the full exhaustion of options.

 

Plouffe had the edge on Hughes (and others) from the start. And to be fair, Plouffe has shown a ceiling high enough to probably justify a spot in the lineup. Until this year, that is.

 

Also, a guy is going to get a longer leash when he posts a 1.000+ OPS in AAA as a 25 year old at a position of need.

 

He's going to get an even longer leash if the MLB team is bad.

[Guest USAFChief]

And, by the way, I do think it is high time to start using platoons if they are keeping the Plouffes, Parmelees, and Colabellos around. Mastro and Presley may be another one.

 

Platoons? As in more than one?

 

Even one true platoon has virtually disappeared from MLB with the growth of bullpens. I doubt you'll ever see multiple platoons unless rosters grow or teams decide to return to 10 or 11 man pitching staffs.

[Shane Wahl]

Platoons? As in more than one?

 

Even one true platoon has virtually disappeared from MLB with the growth of bullpens. I doubt you'll ever see multiple platoons unless rosters grow or teams decide to return to 10 or 11 man pitching staffs.

 

Do you deny that a Plouffe-Parmelee platoon might be useful at some position? Even assuming that you are right about platoons and bullpens, have you seen Plouffe's splits? Parmelee's splits are clearly not that dramatic, but he is a competent player against RH pitching--put the two together and maybe there is a use for them together as opposed to filling in with nonsense like Clete Thomas, Wilkin Ramirez, and Alex Presley.

 

13 players and 12 pitchers seems to still allow for great RH/LH platoon opportunities.

[Guest USAFChief]

Do you deny that a Plouffe-Parmelee platoon might be useful at some position? Even assuming that you are right about platoons and bullpens, have you seen Plouffe's splits? Parmelee's splits are clearly not that dramatic, but he is a competent player against RH pitching--put the two together and maybe there is a use for them together as opposed to filling in with nonsense like Clete Thomas, Wilkin Ramirez, and Alex Presley.

 

13 players and 12 pitchers seems to still allow for great RH/LH platoon opportunities.

I don't deny the advantages of a platoon (2 players who hit from opposite sides sharing 1 position.). I doubt anyone would, they've been around for a century or more.

 

But the growth of pitching staffs have made them so difficult to execute they're almost extinct. What platoons you see now tend to be fourth OFers, for example, who hit from the opposite side as 2 or 3 of your regular OFers and can give one of them a day off here and there against a same handed pitcher. Having Plouffe/Chavez man 3rd almost exclusively (ala Pags/Leius in 91 for example) leaves you so short handed its a rarity these days as teams simply decide the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Same for a platoon at 1B, for that matter.

 

Instead you see hybrids with a guy capable of playing multiple positions. If Plouffe can be that guy, fine, but IMO he might not be ideally suited to that role because he's probably seen his last middle infield days, there's little point in putting his bat in the OF, and as a RH hitter his platoon advantage opportunities are pretty limited anyway.

 

All of which is a long winded way of saying IMO Plouffe as part of a platoon probably ain't gonna happen.

[Shane Wahl]

I don't deny the advantages of a platoon (2 players who hit from opposite sides sharing 1 position.). I doubt anyone would, they've been around for a century or more.

 

But the growth of pitching staffs have made them so difficult to execute they're almost extinct. What platoons you see now tend to be fourth OFers, for example, who hit from the opposite side as 2 or 3 of your regular OFers and can give one of them a day off here and there against a same handed pitcher. Having Plouffe/Chavez man 3rd almost exclusively (ala Pags/Leius in 91 for example) leaves you so short handed its a rarity these days as teams simply decide the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. Same for a platoon at 1B, for that matter.

 

Instead you see hybrids with a guy capable of playing multiple positions. If Plouffe can be that guy, fine, but IMO he might not be ideally suited to that role because he's probably seen his last middle infield days, there's little point in putting his bat in the OF, and as a RH hitter his platoon advantage opportunities are pretty limited anyway.

 

All of which is a long winded way of saying IMO Plouffe as part of a platoon probably ain't gonna happen.

 

American League: Projected Platoons for 2013

 

I'm not sure how these all played out this year, but I don't know how to square your claim with this article.

[Winston Smith]

The chapter on platoons fell out of Gardy's book.

http://images.bookcloseouts.com/covers/large/isbn978076/9780764517716-l.jpg

[kab21]

Platoons? As in more than one?

 

Even one true platoon has virtually disappeared from MLB with the growth of bullpens. I doubt you'll ever see multiple platoons unless rosters grow or teams decide to return to 10 or 11 man pitching staffs.

 

This team typically carries two utility IF'ers so there is still plenty of room for a platoon especially if one part of that platoon can be the 4th MI'er as well as 3B/1B/LF/RF. It also wouldn't be difficult to pair Mastro with someone in a platoon since he is already on the roster in a role.

 

Bench

Escobar - futility IF

Mastro - futility OF

Plouffe/Parmelee - platoon OF

backup C