Should Derek Shelton Return as Manager of the Twins in 2027?

[DJL44]

20 minutes ago, twinssporto said:

I had a nice conversation with Pablo Lopez a couple of weeks ago (thought about writing about it on TD, but didn't). I asked him specifically about the vibe in the clubhouse. He said this year was the best clubhouse he's ever been associated with.

The manager has a lot to do with that.

P.S. Pablo is a fantastic human being. 

Agree that Pablo is great. Having a great clubhouse didn’t add one win to their record, or if it did add some wins they are a really untalented team.

[Twins GFP]

I don't understand this even being a question...

On a related point, if Shelton is fired, who could the Twins bring in that is a "great" manger? I mean if Shelton is a 7/10 manager, how many 8-9-10 guys are out there that are available and would come to Minnesota? Who would you want that would satisfy you? How do you know that supposed 8-9-10 manager would do a better job?

[jmlease1]

He's fine?

Shelton seems to fall into the muddled middle of managers in MLB (how about THAT for alliteration?) who aren't objectively terrible, but it's difficult to see how they actively improve their team's chances of winning consistently, game over game. These are the guys who will likely win a lot of games if they have good players and decent injury luck, and lose a lot of games when they don't.

Everything about Shelton seems...fine. There's not too many utterly head-scratching things about the way he fills out a lineup card, runs his bullpen, or makes substitutions. He seems to have the respect of the players and while we don't really know what goes on behind the scenes, there don't appear to be any real clubhouse problems and players appear to generally like/respect each other and pull in the same direction.

Probably the biggest issue I have with Shelton is his decision to prioritize Larnach's "comfort" in playing LF over playing an outfield alignment that makes more sense based on player's strengths and weaknesses. there's no planet where Austin Martin or Luke Keaschall should be playing RF and Trevor Larnach playing LF. But if that's the worst thing I can say about Shelton, then he's probably a perfectly fine manager.

We overrate the impact of managers when they win and when they lose. There's little reason not to bring Shelton back next season, and firing him because the team has sucked down the stretch again this year is almost certainly an overreaction.

[David Maro]

Look at the Reds who brought in Franconia,are they better now? The problem isn't Shelton it's the ownership and FO. People seem to forget Falvey was brought in to build a pitching pipeline. What pipeline did he build? Almost the whole SP was traded for and has spent a better part of the season on IL. 

Started the season with numerous players out of position and also not playing up to their potential. Wallner played himself basically out of the organization. It also looks like Lewis is heading in the same direction. Buxton kept trying to play on 1 leg and should have had surgery weeks ago. Some people also say the Jeffers injury was a problem,but looking back the team had a better record when he was on IL.

Looking at the team as a whole Clemens,Lee and Bell have carried the team for the better part of the season.

[offensive_loons_fan]

I get the temptation to look at results and say "does this earn Shelton more time," but in practice a decent organization needs to have a holistic approach that spans multiple years. What is the organizational philosophy, and is Shelton a guy that can give you that? Then you give him and the front office several years to build the roster toward that vision. If, after a few years, that progress hasn't been sufficient, then maybe you dump him and/or change the vision.

But having him for a single crapshoot season, in which it is still difficult to see what the longer vision is and with him having limited ability to impact the roster to fit that vision, is entirely inadequate to make any kind of decision.

If they got rid of him, it should be because they have a specific person in mind who can achieve a specific goal, not because he couldn't spin the straw of this patchwork roster into better gold.

[Hunter4848]

2 hours ago, twinssporto said:

I had a nice conversation with Pablo Lopez a couple of weeks ago (thought about writing about it on TD, but didn't). I asked him specifically about the vibe in the clubhouse. He said this year was the best clubhouse he's ever been associated with.

The manager has a lot to do with that.

P.S. Pablo is a fantastic human being. 

 

Yay!!!!!! Good vibes are so much better than winning games!!!

What a pathetic mindset 

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, Twins GFP said:

how many 8-9-10 guys are out there that are available and would come to Minnesota? Who would you want that would satisfy you? How do you know that supposed 8-9-10 manager would do a better job?

That's why struggling organizations need to make changes to find out.

There are hundreds of coaches across MLB and MiLB who would love a chance to lead a big league squad. Some of those coaches have a pretty good understanding of how winning becomes sustainable and how top prospects can avoid getting stuck in their own head. It's not a bad idea to keep an eye out for a person who has these experiences and insights.

Especially if your current manager only has experience with basement-dwelling, low-payroll organizations whose prospects flounder at MLB.

[Trov]

Shelton was getting the club to out play expectations most of the year.  He played the hand he was given well enough to warrant a second year.  I get that Zoll could want someone else, but will the owners approve paying 2 managers?  

I cannot say Shelton is the right guy, it is hard to say who is because you need to know your direction, and expectations.  I think no one expected much this year, and it ended up playing out that way with the drop off down the stretch.  Really it was hot June and July that boosted us to hope, but then reality set in that the team was not set up to win. Then you add in injuries to like 10 starting pitchers, and your first half MVP done for season like you should expect as it always happens. 

Unless Shelton and Zoll just clash behind scenes I see no reason not go with Shelton a second season. 

[Parfigliano]

23 minutes ago, Trov said:

Shelton was getting the club to out play expectations most of the year.  He played the hand he was given well enough to warrant a second year.  I get that Zoll could want someone else, but will the owners approve paying 2 managers?  

I cannot say Shelton is the right guy, it is hard to say who is because you need to know your direction, and expectations.  I think no one expected much this year, and it ended up playing out that way with the drop off down the stretch.  Really it was hot June and July that boosted us to hope, but then reality set in that the team was not set up to win. Then you add in injuries to like 10 starting pitchers, and your first half MVP done for season like you should expect as it always happens. 

Unless Shelton and Zoll just clash behind scenes I see no reason not go with Shelton a second season. 

If it's down to Shelton vs. Zoll and who stays and who goes....bye bye Zoll & Co.

[LastOnePicked]

58 minutes ago, Hunter4848 said:

Yay!!!!!! Good vibes are so much better than winning games!!!

What a pathetic mindset 

There is talk in MLB about expanding the playoffs again. Maybe each league will get to add in a special "Best Vibes" Wild Card spot.

That would probably be the Twins' best chance for playoff baseball for awhile.

But I'm not going to pick on Pablo Lopez. I'm glad he likes the clubhouse. Maybe he'll be a pitching coach here someday.

[AKTwinsFan]

I think an Alex Cora, Aaron Boone (most likely available if NY has early exit) or similar would be good. I was initially rooting for Scott Servais as being the manager we selected, but I think the GM wanted more familiarity. We do need structure though and more discipline. Especially with all the young talent on the team.

[1985Fan]

After one season, it’s way too early to make organizational changes. I think Shelton is doing a great job with the players he has. After last offseason of major organization change, the new management did a good job. It’s going to take time to turn the ship around. Too early to judge Zoll and Shelton. Zoll was handed Falvey’s roster in February. No way should we expect a complete roster overhaul in one year. This team was setup by Falvey based on Buxton, Lewis, and Wallner being the main pieces. I think Zoll and Shelton made the right in season moves with Lewis and Wallner. Can’t blame anyone for Buxton injury in the second half. The jury is still out on Lewis after the midseason reset. 
Zoll started turning over the roster with Culpepper and Jenkins. Now we’ll see how he handles the offseason with Jeffers, Ryan, Bell and others. If he’s given the chance, which he should be. 

[thelanges5]

14 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

What? They've been awful since the deadline. 

Worst record in the American League since August 1. 

[Twins GFP]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

That's why struggling organizations need to make changes to find out.

There are hundreds of coaches across MLB and MiLB who would love a chance to lead a big league squad. Some of those coaches have a pretty good understanding of how winning becomes sustainable and how top prospects can avoid getting stuck in their own head. It's not a bad idea to keep an eye out for a person who has these experiences and insights.

Especially if your current manager only has experience with basement-dwelling, low-payroll organizations whose prospects flounder at MLB.

This does not answer the question. If the Twins went out and hired a guy that wasn't a name or had little MLB experience, or only "experience with basement-dwelling, low-payroll organizations whose prospects flounder at MLB" this site would crucify the hiring. So again, I would ask name names. 

[HarmonK03]

39 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

After one season, it’s way too early to make organizational changes. I think Shelton is doing a great job with the players he has. After last offseason of major organization change, the new management did a good job. It’s going to take time to turn the ship around. Too early to judge Zoll and Shelton. Zoll was handed Falvey’s roster in February. No way should we expect a complete roster overhaul in one year. This team was setup by Falvey based on Buxton, Lewis, and Wallner being the main pieces. I think Zoll and Shelton made the right in season moves with Lewis and Wallner. Can’t blame anyone for Buxton injury in the second half. The jury is still out on Lewis after the midseason reset. 
Zoll started turning over the roster with Culpepper and Jenkins. Now we’ll see how he handles the offseason with Jeffers, Ryan, Bell and others. If he’s given the chance, which he should be. 

Zoll helped Falvey develop this roster and he has been with the organization for 10 years.  He has been a major decision maker for at least the last 5 years.  So no it is not too early to judge him, he is Falvey 2.0.  The only reason Jenkins and Culpepper were brought was when there were no other options just the same as Falvey would have done.

So I am not letting him off the hook and he needs to go to move this organization forward.  The new guy can make a decision on Shelton.

 

[Parfigliano]

14 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Zoll helped Falvey develop this roster and he has been with the organization for 10 years.  He has been a major decision maker for at least the last 5 years.  So no it is not too early to judge him, he is Falvey 2.0.  The only reason Jenkins and Culpepper were brought was when there were no other options just the same as Falvey would have done.

So I am not letting him off the hook and he needs to go to move this organization forward.  The new guy can make a decision on Shelton.

 

New guy>Zoll

[HerbieFan]

100% YES

[1985Fan]

10 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

Zoll helped Falvey develop this roster and he has been with the organization for 10 years.  He has been a major decision maker for at least the last 5 years.  So no it is not too early to judge him, he is Falvey 2.0.  The only reason Jenkins and Culpepper were brought was when there were no other options just the same as Falvey would have done.

So I am not letting him off the hook and he needs to go to move this organization forward.  The new guy can make a decision on Shelton.

 

Since we’re not inside the FO and are offering our opinions from the outside looking in on decisions made, I dispute the claim that “he has been a major decision maker for the last 5 years”. From observing Falvey from afar, I saw him as a micromanager that would not allow others to operate freely, especially after Levine left and promoted to POBO. I don’t think Zoll had major influence on Falvey’s decisions. 
The roster is full of Falvey’s number one draft picks. I don’t think Zoll had major input on the draft either, I think those decisions were between Falvey and Johnson. 
Obviously my opinion as I’m not inside the FO. It was a major decision to part ways with Falvey, TP needs to be given credit for that. He’s also new to the FO and will be able to assess Zoll after seeing him operate for one season. If TP feels Zoll is a Falvey clone, I’m sure he’ll be gone in short order. If TP didn’t like Falvey, he probably wouldn’t keep his clone around either. 

[HarmonK03]

8 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

Since we’re not inside the FO and are offering our opinions from the outside looking in on decisions made, I dispute the claim that “he has been a major decision maker for the last 5 years”. From observing Falvey from afar, I saw him as a micromanager that would not allow others to operate freely, especially after Levine left and promoted to POBO. I don’t think Zoll had major influence on Falvey’s decisions. 
The roster is full of Falvey’s number one draft picks. I don’t think Zoll had major input on the draft either, I think those decisions were between Falvey and Johnson. 
Obviously my opinion as I’m not inside the FO. It was a major decision to part ways with Falvey, TP needs to be given credit for that. He’s also new to the FO and will be able to assess Zoll after seeing him operate for one season. If TP feels Zoll is a Falvey clone, I’m sure he’ll be gone in short order. If TP didn’t like Falvey, he probably wouldn’t keep his clone around either. 

So he promotes Zoll to replace Levine and he tells him to do nothing. The GM is responsible for the day to day operations carrying out the vision of PBO.  He very clearly had input into what was being decided, Falvey didn't sit at his desk and decree every decision.  Levine hinted when he left that he had been left out of the decision making for a period of time, which if true very clearly shows that Zoll was involved since he was the one promoted.  Zoll has had time to show himself and needs to be gone by the end of the season.

And Falvey stepped away because his feelings got hurt when Tom P. took away the Business Operations responsibilities from him when they were probably not intended to be long term.

[StiltedGopher]

I was unaspiring when they hired him.  It would be uninspiring to retain him.  

[LastOnePicked]

1 hour ago, Twins GFP said:

So again, I would ask name names. 

This comes up every time we even discuss the prospect of a coaching change. And the answer from me is always the same: No. That's way above my pay grade. I already have a full-time job. Tom Pohlad doesn't. That's his job, or at least it's his responsibility to hire the people who can do the legwork to create a list of candidates.

[tony&rodney]

What did people expect? Look to the beginning of the year. Talent plays to its level. The offense was pretty lucky for a while but is spotty now. The rotation went down with Pablo and has been mol ok over the course of the year, especially considering they pitched in front of some wonky defense. The bullpen was a disaster but has been resurrected to ok. The defense was the worst in all of baseball but has risen to just below average. The primary players by position are usually stretched compared to most opponents: Jeffers is a below average catcher but he has hit well this year; at first base, Lewis is below average at most things; Clemens has been a surprise with the bat and is a good utility player but below average on defense at second; Lee has improved to become a decent third baseman and he hits home runs; Culpepper is just getting his feet wet but is a big improvement; Larnach, in left, works hard but is well below average with the glove and not exactly a batsman; Buxton was smoking the ball for a bit but is no longer among the top dozen defenders in CF; Keaschall is a great story at the plate but still a rough player, albeit improving, in right. A fair argument can be made that 6 of the 8 primary regulars fit best at DH. Josh Bell has been a decent DH and we are glad he was pulled off first base duty. Changes to the playing roster are needed but the manager and coaching staff have been good. 

[1985Fan]

25 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

So he promotes Zoll to replace Levine and he tells him to do nothing. The GM is responsible for the day to day operations carrying out the vision of PBO. 

Zoll was given GM job in name only. Falvey pushed out Levine to give himself complete authority on baseball decisions, why would he listen to Zoll or anyone else? He also pushed out St. Peter. Falvey was a control freak that thought he was smarter than everyone else. 

27 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

And Falvey stepped away because his feelings got hurt when Tom P. took away the Business Operations responsibilities from him when they were probably not intended to be long term

No, Falvey was fired , and rightfully so. Tom P saw that his brother was under Falvey’s spell, unable to make independent decisions. 
Im not making the decision about Zoll or Shelton. If Zoll is Falvey 2.0, he should be fired. I don’t think that’s the case because after firing Falvey, I don’t see TP keeping a Falvey clone around either. 
We can agree to disagree. We’ll find out this offseason if Zoll gets the boot or sticks around. If Zoll stays, I believe Shelton stays. 

[HarmonK03]

31 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

Zoll was given GM job in name only. Falvey pushed out Levine to give himself complete authority on baseball decisions, why would he listen to Zoll or anyone else? He also pushed out St. Peter. Falvey was a control freak that thought he was smarter than everyone else. 

No, Falvey was fired , and rightfully so. Tom P saw that his brother was under Falvey’s spell, unable to make independent decisions. 
Im not making the decision about Zoll or Shelton. If Zoll is Falvey 2.0, he should be fired. I don’t think that’s the case because after firing Falvey, I don’t see TP keeping a Falvey clone around either. 
We can agree to disagree. We’ll find out this offseason if Zoll gets the boot or sticks around. If Zoll stays, I believe Shelton stays. 

You are presenting a lot of assumptions as facts, do you have support.

Falvey and the Twins mutually agreed to part ways, that is the public reporting.  I get things can happen behind the scenes and that is a face saving way to say it.  But in Falvey's own words, he thought one person could lead both baseball operations and business operations, but Tom took away the business operations from him.  When he took that role it was when the team was up for sale, most competent leaders in that position know that the role is probably going to be a transition to when a new ownership group would take control.  When the team was pulled off the market, Tom P. wanted to go back to the way the Twins had always operated with two people in charge.  It appears that Falvey disagreed and hit the road.  

 

[Twins GFP]

1 hour ago, LastOnePicked said:

This comes up every time we even discuss the prospect of a coaching change. And the answer from me is always the same: No. That's way above my pay grade. I already have a full-time job. Tom Pohlad doesn't. That's his job, or at least it's his responsibility to hire the people who can do the legwork to create a list of candidates.

Fair enough, and my comments were necessarily aimed at you specifically. The masses are more than happy to complain about the job the current manager is doing, yet they are unable to provide a realistic "better" option.

[Jeff K]

6 hours ago, DJL44 said:

I don’t understand this. They seem very, very similar in decision making. Do you just like beards?

Are you just begging for clicks?

[DJL44]

3 minutes ago, Jeff K said:

Are you just begging for clicks?

Peter Labuza wrote a whole article above that says Shelton doesn’t manage the team that differently from Baldelli, but sure. I’m being a non-contrarian for clicks.

[Jeff K]

5 minutes ago, DJL44 said:

Peter Labuza wrote a whole article above that says Shelton doesn’t manage the team that differently from Baldelli, but sure. I’m being a non-contrarian for clicks.

"Do you just like beards" adds zero value to the conversation is mean for no good reason.  But I suspect you don't care.  Go for it!

[1985Fan]

29 minutes ago, HarmonK03 said:

You are presenting a lot of assumptions as facts, do you have support.

Referring to TD article about Falvey departure

Quoting Falvey and TP from the post:

“Ownership transitions naturally create moments for reflection and honest dialogue about leadership, vision, and how an organization wants to move forward," wrote Derek Falvey in the team's press release. "Over the past several weeks we had those conversations openly and constructively and ultimately reached a shared understanding that this was the right step both for the organization and for me personally."

Those changes were also recognized by Tom Pohlad. "Over the past several weeks, Derek and I had thoughtful and candid conversations about leadership, structure, and the future of the club," Pohlad wrote in the team's press release. "We reached a shared understanding that the needs of the organization are evolving and that a leadership transition is the best way to move forward."

No mention of leaving due to TP assuming Business OPs management, rather the reason given is leadership change, period. 
Also, researched the press releases, and Zoll was appointed GM in late 2024. Previously was minor league operations director until 2020, assistant GM until made GM in November 2024. Assistant GM is not a major decision maker. 
I’ll quit with this thread as I’m not a Zoll defender nor a critic, I’m just open minded to see how he handles GM duties during a full offseason. I obviously could be wrong and he’s a terrible GM. 

[HarmonK03]

32 minutes ago, 1985Fan said:

 

Referring to TD article about Falvey departure

Quoting Falvey and TP from the post:

“Ownership transitions naturally create moments for reflection and honest dialogue about leadership, vision, and how an organization wants to move forward," wrote Derek Falvey in the team's press release. "Over the past several weeks we had those conversations openly and constructively and ultimately reached a shared understanding that this was the right step both for the organization and for me personally."

Those changes were also recognized by Tom Pohlad. "Over the past several weeks, Derek and I had thoughtful and candid conversations about leadership, structure, and the future of the club," Pohlad wrote in the team's press release. "We reached a shared understanding that the needs of the organization are evolving and that a leadership transition is the best way to move forward."

No mention of leaving due to TP assuming Business OPs management, rather the reason given is leadership change, period. 
Also, researched the press releases, and Zoll was appointed GM in late 2024. Previously was minor league operations director until 2020, assistant GM until made GM in November 2024. Assistant GM is not a major decision maker. 
I’ll quit with this thread as I’m not a Zoll defender nor a critic, I’m just open minded to see how he handles GM duties during a full offseason. I obviously could be wrong and he’s a terrible GM. 

“We believe that the best structure going forward is a president of business and a president of baseball,” Pohlad said. “I think what’s best for this organization right now is all the energy and focus in those two departments being 100 percent committed right now. Yes, there is an element here where I’m a different leader in how I want to engage with this organization than in the past. You wrap all those things together and I think that’s what best moving forward.”

“I think any structure can work with the right belief in it, with the right people, with the right people underneath, and the foundation,” Falvey said. “And I want to say this: I totally respect Tom's position that he would like it to look a little different in the other way. There are few teams that have it this way, there are a lot more teams that don't that have it spread apart. I totally respect that decision. It's a really hard job for sure to do both. I think with the right environment, the right structure around it, you can do both, but I respect the decision he has going forward and I'm sure they're going to have someone really good to take on this business.”

From the MLB.com website, Falvey wanted both positions and didn't get it which was naive on his part.  The majority of teams split those positions.  And he was not fired.