Rotten to the Core: Did the Twins Really Shake Up Their Core at the Trade Deadline?

[Major League Ready]

Did anyone think they had a new core ready to replace the old core on August 1st?   I think the OP positioned this properly by asking the question will the team move on from players like Larnach, for example.  I would bet the answer is yes but that won't be a wholesale exchange.  It will be players like Roden and Gonzalez getting a shot and Jenkins probably follows close behind.   

2B has already happened.  SS - Culpepper will probably be here the 1st half of 2026.  If he hits as well or better than Lee, he is our SS and Lee moves to a bench role.   IDK what we do about 1B.  It would be great if they could teach Wallner to play 1B but I don't think he has the hand or the footwork.  Hopefully they get a 1B in one of the trades this winter.  My dark horse is Kyler Fedko plays 1B which he has done some in the minors.

If they don't solve 1B or Catcher, they are going to have plenty of payroll space to sign a FA.  My guess is they get a 1B in one of the trades this winter.  Could they extend Jeffers for 2 years?

[Maybe Next Year]

2 hours ago, Wedman13 said:

Rooker, there's 1

He’s with Oakland and pretty much only DH’s because he is mediocre if not poor in the field. I don’t consider that solid player development.

[Sjoski]

6 hours ago, Autist75 said:

It's obvious to just about everyone Rocco needs to go.  Do not count on that happening as long as Falvey and the Pohlads are in charge.

 

True. It’s a 3-ring circus: the Pohlads playing ringmasters, Falvey juggling players like a clown, and Rocco wobbling on the tightrope — just waiting for the inevitable fall.

[tony&rodney]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

My dark horse is Kyler Fedko plays 1B which he has done some in the minors.

Maybe. Something is better than nothing. Fedko will need to learn how to lay off breaking balls and offspeed stuff. Perhaps he can further refine his swing. 

Wallner? He needs to be a DH only. All the talk of his improvement in the outfield and the drone of the TV voices cannot soften the harm he causes as an outfielder. Bring back Delmon. I think Wallner might have a chance to blossom as a bat if he burns his glove. Would Pittsburgh exchange the injured Jared Jones for Big Matt?

[Doctor Wu]

18 hours ago, Glorybound said:

The lack of development of bats goes down below the major league level. Austin Martin, Julien,  and Larnach were all high level college bats going into Twins system. I realize there are no guarantees but it has gotten ridiculous.

Add Lee and even Miranda to that list too. Something is just not clicking with these guys when they hit MLB. A few flashes of excellence and they quickly descend into sustained mediocrity. 

[Doctor Wu]

19 hours ago, MileHighTwinsFan said:

Best post-mortem on trade deadline to date.  The team still has a talented, but underperforming core. The deadline positioned the team to truly find out what they have with these players. Some combination of the current players on the roster and the promising prospects in the minors will be the core of this team for the foreseeable future.

Spot on. Other than unnecessarily decimating our bullpen (some of those arms were fine to deal, but I still can't understand the Varland trade) our basic core remains. I don't even think that losing Correa was any big loss. But as you noted, it remains an underperforming bunch. Is it lack of proper development, as some have suggested, or are these guys just plain mediocre and won't ever get better? But yes, bring up as many prospects as we can this month and in September. I'm not writing this team off yet, but it needs a serious change of attitude and performance. I'd love to get a new manager and GM (what can you say about ownership at this point?) but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon, so we just have to roll with the prospects and hope that a few of these trade pieces turn into something productive. 

[Whitey333]

Great comments and opinions all!   My opinion is when the prospects are i. The minors leagues and playing everyday in the minors the appear fine.  But get to the majors and many of them are relegated to part time status due to Roccos platoon and strict unwavering spreadsheets.  Plus Falvey spends a lot of time over hyping these prospects.  So many failed or near failed prospects and yet we still have the Falvey/Rocco team running the show.  It's a joke.  They both need to go.

[old nurse]

20 hours ago, GNess said:

Well presented article for sure, but I would suggest that the central problem with the core may not be development as appears to be the main thrust of most comments.

The player evaluation process has to be questioned in a big way when this many so-called raw talents are failing - perhaps this collection of players were mis-evaluated and simply aren't as good as they were projected to be?

 

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/which-orgs-are-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting-hitters/

Yet by runs created by drafted players they are not performing poorly

[old nurse]

18 hours ago, HerbieFan said:

All of this leads to a larger question: can the Twins actually develop their top young players once they reach the majors?

I believe the evidence almost universally says NO

In terms of fielding and baserunning, the players should have figured that out long before they reach the majors.  Hitting is adjusting and learning the pitching.  The Twins developed Castro, they didn’t Rooker. Anybody else make it after they left the Twins with say a couple of over a 5 war over a couple year stretch? Wade had 2 very bad years before 2 OK years before faltering. 

[David Maro]

This team is now so bad I would rather watch paint dry!!

[NYCTK]

2 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

Spot on. Other than unnecessarily decimating our bullpen (some of those arms were fine to deal, but I still can't understand the Varland trade)

If he wasn't from Minnesota there wouldn't be this irrational level of anger for shipping out a failed starter with a career WHIP higher over 1.3 and a AAA ERA over 4.

Twins fans need to get over the fact that they traded away a failed starter for a very good SP prospet and a stopgap LF. Louie Varland isn't that great. He's fine and extremely replaceable. 

[LA Vikes Fan]

1 hour ago, old nurse said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/which-orgs-are-the-best-and-worst-at-drafting-hitters/

Yet by runs created by drafted players they are not performing poorly

That was interesting. Looks like the Twins are near the middle in developing Hitters, probably slight above the mid-line.  All of this just shows how steep the pyramid is for developing MLB players and how developing one hitting star changes the stats and the perception. The Twins have NOT developed that one middle of the order bat that helps everybody and I just don't see that guy on the roster unless 2023 Royce Lewis returns.  

By the way, why isn't Keaschall playing some 1B with Martin at 2B occasionally? Let's see if that works. Kody Clemens is a nice redemption story, but he is NOT the long-term answer at 1B and we got nobody at AAA. If Keaschall can play 1B (or LF) and Martin fails, now we have an opening for Culpepper or Eeles. I hate to break it you guys, but absent injury Lee is our SS through 2026 at least. I read that he's been above average in OAA since going to SS full time, and I can see that he's hitting much better. He's one of our few success stories in finding the right place to play somebody.     

[old nurse]

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

If he wasn't from Minnesota there wouldn't be this irrational level of anger for shipping out a failed starter with a career WHIP higher over 1.3 and a AAA ERA over 4.

Twins fans need to get over the fact that they traded away a failed starter for a very good SP prospet and a stopgap LF. Louie Varland isn't that great. He's fine and extremely replaceable. 

They fans eyed to quit thinking a salary dump of a player not performing up to the contract 

[MileHighTwinsFan]

6 hours ago, Doctor Wu said:

 Is it lack of proper development, as some have suggested, or are these guys just plain mediocre and won't ever get better? 

Not all players come up to the major leagues and immediately produce.  There are many examples of players on the Twins or players the Twins moved on from that ended up having All Star and even HOF careers (Sorry to bring up the David Ortiz thing.)  Byron Buxton, Torii Hunter, Justin Morneau - just to name a few had their ups and downs in their early years. 

Patience is key. Royce Lewis is a prime example.  A player with high expectations that has not fully realized his potential.  Injuries may have lowered the ceiling, but he is still capable of great things on the field. Right now he is transitioning to a role as a key cog on a young team.  He will either rise to the occasion or fail.  Only time and more reps will determine that. And no, 900 at bats through several injury riddled seasons is not enough time to judge him.   

There is no question that the clock is running out on players like Julien, Larnach, and Miranda.   Players whose options are expired or who are arbitration eligible have much smaller windows to work with.   It is for this reason that seeing what we really have in these players for the next 5 weeks is key to the future.  None of that would have happened if Harrison Bader, Ty France, Willie Castro and Carlos Correa were taking those at bats.  

[RpR]

7 hours ago, MileHighTwinsFan said:

Not all players come up to the major leagues and immediately produce.  There are many examples of players on the Twins or players the Twins moved on from that ended up having All Star and even HOF careers (Sorry to bring up the David Ortiz thing.)  Byron Buxton, Torii Hunter, Justin Morneau - just to name a few had their ups and downs in their early years. 

Patience is key. Royce Lewis is a prime example.  A player with high expectations that has not fully realized his potential.  Injuries may have lowered the ceiling, but he is still capable of great things on the field. Right now he is transitioning to a role as a key cog on a young team.  He will either rise to the occasion or fail.  Only time and more reps will determine that. And no, 900 at bats through several injury riddled seasons is not enough time to judge him.   

Comparing Lewis to the gents you name is like comparing Sano to Babe Ruth.

[Doctor Wu]

20 hours ago, NYCTK said:

If he wasn't from Minnesota there wouldn't be this irrational level of anger for shipping out a failed starter with a career WHIP higher over 1.3 and a AAA ERA over 4.

Twins fans need to get over the fact that they traded away a failed starter for a very good SP prospet and a stopgap LF. Louie Varland isn't that great. He's fine and extremely replaceable. 

Even though he was a "failed starter" (joining Duran and a long list of others), Varland had turned into an above average bullpen arm. I was assuming that after the trades of Duran and Jax that we would be our new closer. Not to be. So, I'm not so sure he is that easily replaced. That said, I'm happy with the return we got for him, although the jury is still out on both of those players. 

[MileHighTwinsFan]

12 hours ago, RpR said:

Comparing Lewis to the gents you name is like comparing Sano to Babe Ruth.

Fine.  How about Brett Rooker and Liam Hendriks.

[RpR]

18 minutes ago, MileHighTwinsFan said:

Fine.  How about Brett Rooker and Liam Hendriks.

Rooker - glove wise, probably, bat wise, No.

Rooker figured out Major league pitching after a horrid start; Lewis was a flash in the pan who is now a fizzle.

Hendriks is a pitcher, zero analogy.

[MileHighTwinsFan]

3 hours ago, RpR said:

Rooker - glove wise, probably, bat wise, No.

Rooker figured out Major league pitching after a horrid start; Lewis was a flash in the pan who is now a fizzle.

Hendriks is a pitcher, zero analogy.

You are convinced that Royce Lewis is a bust, I think it is too early to make that call.  There are plenty of examples of prospects that "fizzled" out of the gate, only to be All Star level players years later (I also acknowledge that there have been can't miss players who were busts).  At this point there is no downside in giving Royce the runway to work it out.  He probably has one more year to show meaningful progress.