Starter to Reliever Transitions

[Brady]

Not a new or original point of discussion (especially at this point in the calendar) but interested for others' thoughts on which (if any) of the team's current starters could be best-suited for a transition to the bullpen. I think it's uncontroversial to say that Paddack is a non-starter (no pun intended) for such a transition this year, barring another injury that puts him on the shelf until August / September. Would also put Varland in that camp given his next-man-up status after the first wave of rotation arms. Personally I agree with the notion that both of those guys would be more effective in the pen, but don't really think that's on the table.

The two names I'm more intrigued by are Matt Canterino and Connor Prielipp. Seems like the wind is definitely blowing in that direction on Canterino. On Prielipp, I don't see the FO pulling the plug this early, nor would I do so. I'd imagine the prospect (no pun intended x2) of having a homegrown lefty starter with a mid-90s fastball and a wipeout slider is too great to park a 24-year-old former 2nd-round pick in the Wichita / St. Paul bullpen. Just wonder at what point do the longevity concerns crystallize into action on the player development side of the house -- how many major arm issues can someone have before both doors are slammed shut?

Given the current state of the major-league bullpen, I don't think the Twins have to push on any one of these or other names in the system. But I can't help but wonder what is possible given the organizational success stories in converting starters to relievers for health (e.g., Duran) or performance (e.g., Jax, Sands) reasons. And with the line between starter and reliever blurring for even established big leaguers (Jordan Hicks & Clay Holmes as two recent examples, with the Jax offseason speculation as another data point), it seems like this is much less of a permanent decision than maybe it once was.

Is this best left as a thought experiment induced by Spring Training excitement? Or can the team get better for this and future years by re-aligning certain guys to new goals?

 

[nicksaviking]

I think everyone is doing Prelipp a disservice if they try to make him throw more than 80 innings a season. 

With guys you are more than 50% sure will end up in the bullpen, I would err toward the side of a fast promotion; that being, move them to the pen now, not until you've exhausted starting options and are up against the service time clock. 

[ashbury]

It used to be that you'd bring up a youngster and let him get his bearings in the majors by pitching in relief.  Not always, not every prospect, but it was respectable tactic, dating back to the old-timey days when rookies were downright hazed.  In more modern times, Johan Santana is a classic example, though it was debated hotly at the time whether they took too long to convert him back to starter status, and one could waste time arguing that their decisions cost him a HoF plaque.  Adam Wainwright is another, more clear-cut example, who came up to stay in 2006 and pitched exclusively in relief for the Cards, then converted back to starting and never looked back.

By contrast, starter-prospect-turned-reliever Trevor May remarked early in his career that he understood his situation by embracing the bullpen, and that it was too hard for a pitcher to switch to starting once he got accustomed to relieving.

There's a disconnect here.  The game evolves, but what exactly about it has changed so that putting a guy in the bullpen in the interest of getting to the majors quicker constitutes a death knell for his opportunity as a starter down the road?

[nicksaviking]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

There's a disconnect here.  The game evolves, but what exactly about it has changed so that putting a guy in the bullpen in the interest of getting to the majors quicker constitutes a death knell for his opportunity as a starter down the road?

Probably mostly a manager who tends to dwell on the warts of all of the players he knows but buys into the agent hype of all the players he doesn't.

There's got to be a Desclafani we can find to plug in there!

[Doctor Gast]

You make some very good points Brady. I was against them putting Varland in AAA & waste his bullets there & at this point he's a better RP than SP. I agree with Ashbury that RPing is a great springboard for prospects to get their feet wet & that's what I'm all in favor of, giving our players every opportunity to prove themselves. And there's Raya that could be used as an opener if need be. Duran & Jax are excellent examples of SPs converted to the BP. Duran because of his arm issues, where Canterino & Prielipp should have been put on this path a while ago. Jax, because he didn't quite had the stuff to stick at SP, Varland is in the same boat but could be a great RP. Who knows they could transition back into the rotation like Santana did. Santana didn't have any problem doing so. We have a great BP but could be even better.

[LambchoP]

I think Canterino, Prelipp and Varland should definitely be full-time relievers. All three could be high leverage weapons in our pen, making our relief core even deeper if everyone is healthy. Maybe that depth opens up a trade at the deadline to get a little more thump in our lineup somewhere. As far as starters to relievers I'd say maybe Raya and or Soto? I wouldn't make that move until they are sure those guys cannot handle a starters workload, AND if we have that big of a need in the pen.

[Mike Sixel]

22 hours ago, nicksaviking said:

I think everyone is doing Prelipp a disservice if they try to make him throw more than 80 innings a season. 

With guys you are more than 50% sure will end up in the bullpen, I would err toward the side of a fast promotion; that being, move them to the pen now, not until you've exhausted starting options and are up against the service time clock. 

Same. Prelipp could be in the bullpen making MLB money this year, but they'll keep him as a SP "just in case"....just like Jax. There are like 6 dudes ahead of Prelipp on the depth chart.....

[nicksaviking]

2 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Same. Prelipp could be in the bullpen making MLB money this year, but they'll keep him as a SP "just in case"....just like Jax. There are like 6 dudes ahead of Prelipp on the depth chart.....

To clarify, I think you mean six guys in ADDITION to the projected starting five?

And I agree.

[Mike Sixel]

50 minutes ago, nicksaviking said:

To clarify, I think you mean six guys in ADDITION to the projected starting five?

And I agree.

Yes

[Major League Ready]

Prielipp is 5th or 6th on the depth chart because he has been out forever.  Should we believe, Prielipp would shoot up that depth chart with a healthy season.  Does he have a higher ceiling than most or all of the people currently ahead of him on the depth chart?  If so, converting him for expediency is a really bad asset management not to mention really unfair to Prielipp.  He might get to the show a year earlier but it would like cost him tens of millions of dollars.

[Mike Sixel]

2 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Prielipp is 5th or 6th on the depth chart because he has been out forever.  Should we believe, Prielipp would shoot up that depth chart with a healthy season.  Does he have a higher ceiling than most or all of the people currently ahead of him on the depth chart?  If so, converting him for expediency is a really bad asset management not to mention really unfair to Prielipp.  He might get to the show a year earlier but it would like cost him tens of millions of dollars.

Or, he sits in the minors for years just in case he can be a starter maybe someday and make no money 

He's not starting this year, he's likely to get few innings. Then next year they'll build him up, but he's almost certainly not starting next year. So that's two years of making zero money...

He's been healthy when? 

[Brady]

5 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

Does he have a higher ceiling than most or all of the people currently ahead of him on the depth chart?  If so, converting him for expediency is a really bad asset management not to mention really unfair to Prielipp

This the the biggest challenge with Prielipp and Raya. I'm also not necessarily convinced that having your high-octane but injury-prone arms focus on max-effort appearances with extremely limited prep time is prudent. Duran (and I'm sure there are other cases) is obviously a strong counterpoint to that concern.

As for the fairness element, I don't think it should / does really play a factor. Varland has been extremely vocal about that point, but I'd imagine the minute the Twins lose confidence in him being a meaningful rotation contributor and/or depth piece (i.e., more valuable to the team there than out of the pen) he will make the move full-time. Varland certainly has firmer ground to stand on than, say, Jax and Sands given he's had more success as a starter, but at the end of the day it's a competitive business. If you make it FA and can convince another team you've still got runway as a starter, then more power to you.

[Doctor Wu]

On 2/18/2025 at 4:20 AM, nicksaviking said:

I think everyone is doing Prelipp a disservice if they try to make him throw more than 80 innings a season.

Nick, are you saying that we should not expect Prielipp to thrown more than 80 innings this coming season, or in any season in the near future? I realize that the Twins need to bring him along slowly, but at some point in the next year or two I still hold out hope that he can become a starting pitcher again. 

[Riverbrian]

On 2/17/2025 at 4:15 PM, ashbury said:

It used to be that you'd bring up a youngster and let him get his bearings in the majors by pitching in relief.  Not always, not every prospect, but it was respectable tactic, dating back to the old-timey days when rookies were downright hazed.  In more modern times, Johan Santana is a classic example, though it was debated hotly at the time whether they took too long to convert him back to starter status, and one could waste time arguing that their decisions cost him a HoF plaque.  Adam Wainwright is another, more clear-cut example, who came up to stay in 2006 and pitched exclusively in relief for the Cards, then converted back to starting and never looked back.

By contrast, starter-prospect-turned-reliever Trevor May remarked early in his career that he understood his situation by embracing the bullpen, and that it was too hard for a pitcher to switch to starting once he got accustomed to relieving.

There's a disconnect here.  The game evolves, but what exactly about it has changed so that putting a guy in the bullpen in the interest of getting to the majors quicker constitutes a death knell for his opportunity as a starter down the road?

Boxes. I hate putting people in boxes. Baseball loves boxes. 

[Linus]

Keep him healthy and challenge with AA hitters to start the season.  Assuming health and success move him to AAA in June.  If he succeeds there he is next man up for the Twins in either role.  I don’t care if he can only go 3-4 innings as a starter tell one of the 15 expendable arms that the first guy to throw two inning competently gets a piggyback job.  If it’s in the pen that is fine too.  If he stays healthy he can start next year.  If his talent comes through then you figure out a way to get him big league innings and if you are so rigid in your thinking that you can’t do that then you need to be replaced.

[ashbury]

8 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Boxes. I hate putting people in boxes. Baseball loves boxes. 

High five to that.