Rocco to Return

[ashbury]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

So if managers don’t matter very much, why the vehement defense of the guy?

Who is vehemently defending the guy?  Respond to them, not to me.

What I question is the whole investment of energy in the topic itself.  Which is why I've been mostly silent, and plan to resume that position.

If they fire Rocco I won't be yelling about that either.

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Who is vehemently defending the guy?  Respond to them, not to me.

I’m not saying you, I’m speaking about the people who seem personally offended with criticism of him.

[ashbury]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

I’m not saying you, I’m speaking about the people who seem personally offended with criticism of him.

Okay, but the trend here lately has been to challenge people to back up their assertions with facts/data, and when I did on this topic, you completely ignored it and continued on the angle you prefer.  Why are managers paid so little if they matter so much?

[Aggies7]

2 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Okay, but the trend here lately has been to challenge people to back up their assertions with facts/data, and when I did on this topic, you completely ignored it and continued on the angle you prefer.  Why are managers paid so little if they matter so much?

It’s apples and oranges. Teams get in to bidding wars for players, they don’t for managers. How many manager candidates are there, compared to say top notch starting pitchers or star shortstops? The top center fielder goes in to free agency and teams bid for his services. 

[Linus]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

I’m not saying you, I’m speaking about the people who seem personally offended with criticism of him.

I don’t know who those people are. I don’t recall anybody endorsing Rocco. Some of us are saying it doesn’t matter as much as others think it does. And if he was fired they would hire someone to manage in the same manner. 

[ashbury]

1 minute ago, Aggies7 said:

Teams get in to bidding wars for players, they don’t for managers.

Yes.  Unanswered remains, "why?"

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Yes.  Unanswered remains, "why?"

Because there’s one Carlos Correa or ohtani in the world.

Is there only one great manager in all of the baseball world?

 

[ashbury]

9 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

Because there’s one Carlos Correa or ohtani in the world.

Is there only one great manager in all of the baseball world?

You just named two. 😀  There's a lot of players at their level.

No owner/FO believes any manager is anywhere near their level, in terms of wins added.  Follow the money.

[Aggies7]

8 minutes ago, ashbury said:

You just named two. 😀  There's a lot of players at their level.

No owner/FO believes any manager is anywhere near their level, in terms of wins added.

There aren’t many people at the level of ohtani. Or Soto. Or judge. No one is going to dodgers games to watch Dave Roberts. Nor Yankees games to watch Aaron Boone.

 

[ashbury]

5 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

There aren’t many people at the level of ohtani. Or Soto. Or judge. No one is going to dodgers games to watch Dave Roberts. Nor Yankees games to watch Aaron Boone.

You watch Rocco.  😀

[Aggies7]

4 minutes ago, ashbury said:

You watch Rocco.  😀

I don’t watch twins games to watch the manager.

That doesn’t mean he and his decisions aren’t valuable to the team.

ohtahni and judge put buts in seats and sell merch (value). No one is buying a Rocco jersey. At least I hope not 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

32 minutes ago, ashbury said:

Yes.  Unanswered remains, "why?"

Well, no. It's called interviewing. 

 

[ashbury]

14 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

I don’t watch twins games to watch the manager.

Could fool me, sometimes.

[Aggies7]

Just now, ashbury said:

Could fool me, sometimes.

Oh cmon I’m not nearly that adamant about hating the guy as some are.
 

I’m adamant about doing the most to try and win. I don’t think he gives the best shot to do that. 

We can revisit this next September. I’m sure we will.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

42 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

So if managers don’t matter very much, why the vehement defense of the guy?

It's an "anti-anti" culture taken hold around this. They are not really Rocco fans, but are opposed to people who take positions against Rocco. Why this is, I have no idea. I don't get it either. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Just now, Aggies7 said:

We can revisit this next September. I’m sure we will.

or possibly July or August

[LastOnePicked]

41 minutes ago, ashbury said:

What I question is the whole investment of energy in the topic itself. 

It is a fair question and a good question.

I think for some of us, we know what it's been like to work for an inspirational leader, and also what it's like to work for an ineffective leader. And make no mistake - the MLB manager is a leadership position. A robot could write out a lineup card. AI could map out your bullpen usage. A manager should have skills in communicating with supremely talented human beings, identifying their blind spots, elevating their skills and maximizing their chances for success.

Does that describe Rocco Baldelli's work here in any way? No. Not even close.

Yes, players like him. He's likable. I've worked for places where many of the employees love working for someone who will never bust their chops or challenge them. Those department, divisions and companies always fall behind the competition. Always.

For some of us, Rocco isn't just caught up in the Twins' woes - he's central to the cause. And a firing would send a message that anything short of a tenacious 162+ game fight for a title won't be tolerated in Twins Territory. That would be so refreshing, and the prospects coming in might find themselves rising to meet that challenge.

[ashbury]

1 minute ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

It's an "anti-anti" culture taken hold around this. They are not really Rocco fans, but are opposed to people who take positions against Rocco. Why this is, I have no idea. I don't get it either. 

One side is just clear thinking individuals who independently come to the same conclusion, while the other side is a culture.

I pick which discussions to get involved with, and this is an example of why I've steered clear on this particular one.

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, LastOnePicked said:

It is a fair question and a good question.

I think for some of us, we know what it's been like to work for an inspirational leader, and also what it's like to work for an ineffective leader. And make no mistake - the MLB manager is a leadership position. A robot could write out a lineup card. AI could map out your bullpen usage. A manager should have skills in communicating with supremely talented human beings, identifying their blind spots, elevating their skills and maximizing their chances for success.

Does that describe Rocco Baldelli's work here in any way? No. Not even close.

Yes, players like him. He's likable. I've worked for places where many of the employees love working for someone who will never bust their chops or challenge them. Those department, divisions and companies always fall behind the competition. Always.

For some of us, Rocco isn't just caught up in the Twins' woes - he's central to the cause. And a firing would send a message that anything short of a tenacious 162+ game fight for a title won't be tolerated in Twins Territory. That would be so refreshing, and the prospects coming in might find themselves rising to meet that challenge.

Even just managing someone like Royce, who had foot in mouth disease a few times this year. Or benching someone for dragging a**.
 

these things are important in any organization 

[LastOnePicked]

6 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

It's an "anti-anti" culture taken hold around this. They are not really Rocco fans, but are opposed to people who take positions against Rocco. Why this is, I have no idea. I don't get it either. 

Neither do I. People realize that a MLB manager isn't going to starve in the streets after a firing, right? I mean, this is an elite position. The pay is good, and there are always chances to coach at other levels. Rocco would survive.

And so would the Twins. There are probably about a hundred people in the country who would be immediately qualified. Some of them might be the tonic this team needs to take things to the next level. Few could do too much worse.

[Aggies7]

5 minutes ago, ashbury said:

One side is just clear thinking individuals who independently come to the same conclusion, while the other side is a culture.

I pick which discussions to get involved with, and this is an example of why I've steered clear on this particular one.

It is kind of a TD thing though, to fiercely challenge criticism of any players or staff (outside of the FO- that seems to be ok). It’s always been that way and while I don’t like it sometimes, I do have to give credit. It’s one of the few places on the internet that isn’t a free for all bash fest. It can be annoying though. 

[ashbury]

2 minutes ago, Aggies7 said:

fiercely challenge criticism

My mild rebuttal?  A tenth of the ferocity of the criticism itself.

[Aggies7]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

My mild rebuttal?  A tenth of the ferocity of the criticism itself.

Not you.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

9 minutes ago, ashbury said:

One side is just clear thinking individuals who independently come to the same conclusion, while the other side is a culture.

I pick which discussions to get involved with, and this is an example of why I've steered clear on this particular one.

It's a small number of people on each side. A majority of individuals who post on this site just ignore it, to their credit. There are better things to do.

 

[LaBombo]

E Z flow chart to determine if the Twins' manager and front office will be back next year:

 

1.  Are they presently alive?

- If no, they will not return

- If yes, proceed to question 2.

 

2.  Did the organization's revenue performance meet the expectations of the Pohlad family?

- If no, they will not return

- If yes, they will return

 

It's not rocket science.  It's not even bottle rocket science.

As long as Bally's checks don't bounce and people show up at Target to watch a team with a coin flip chance to win, this is status quo Pohlad ownership until the asteroid gets here.

 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

2 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

It’s crazy to me to say that managers matter little. If that’s the case, why don’t the GMs fill our lineup cards or go to the mound to make a pitching change? Or why not just have a guy relaying whatever the stats say to do?

Sounds to me like the only fans who say that managers matter little are those fans whose teams aren’t very good. Did any rangers fans say that they could have won the World Series with someone other than Bruce Bochy?

If a manager doesn't matter, then he's a bad manager. If players are taking the field and trying to figure it out on their own, the manager isn't doing his job. The only thing crazier than saying managers don't matter is all the excuses made for Rocco.

[Brock Beauchamp]

2 hours ago, ashbury said:

It's possible that Gleeman sees Fal-Vine as joined at the hip, and perhaps there is even a "if he goes, I go" ultimatum in place that we don't even know about.

 

I can't publicly say the rumors I'm hearing but this doesn't appear to be the case. Hopefully we'll have more substantial things to say in the coming days.

[CRF]

Well...now that we all know the FO and Rocco will be back, the next question is...what changes WILL be made...or maybe the right way to put it is...what will ownership allow to be spent on making this team better? If they continue to scream poverty, we cut more payroll, and don't allow any money be spent on improving the roster, then absolutely nothing will change. We'll be on the outside looking in next year too. Figure out the ****ing tv package out too!  

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, Aggies7 said:

So if managers don’t matter very much, why the vehement defense of the guy?

34 minutes ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

It's an "anti-anti" culture taken hold around this. They are not really Rocco fans, but are opposed to people who take positions against Rocco. Why this is, I have no idea. I don't get it either. 

There isn't a single person here defending Rocco Baldelli. We're two pages into this thread and zero people have chimed in that they believe Rocco Baldelli should remain the Twins manager. The closest we've come is a couple of people suggesting it might not matter whether he stays or goes.

Yet there are loads of people outright bashing the guy, literally saying things like "clown show" and the like.

I swear to god it feels like I'm being gaslit every time this guy is even mentioned on this website. Holy christ.

[Aggies7]

6 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

There isn't a single person here defending Rocco Baldelli. We're two pages into this thread and zero people have chimed in that they believe Rocco Baldelli should remain the Twins manager. The closest we've come is a couple of people suggesting it might not matter whether he stays or goes.

Yet there are loads of people outright bashing the guy, literally saying things like "clown show" and the like.

I swear to god it feels like I'm being gaslit every time this guy is even mentioned on this website. Holy christ.

Suggesting it won’t matter IS defending him. It’s not his fault they underperformed and collapsed then. It couldn’t be because his impact is minimal.

Why are you taking it so personally if people are angry he’s being kept on? Why does it bother you? Who really cares?