Twins 2, Orioles 7: Stick a Fork in Them

[ashbury]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

Bullpen aside. The real story... As I watched the game... I kept saying to myself. Povich is shutting us completely down. Povich shouldn't be shutting anyone down but... with our hitters he hung zeros as he lowered his ERA from 5.59 to 5.20.

Unless someone believes this will turn out to be Cade Povich's best season in the majors, I'm not too interested in being accused of "clutching prospects" or whatever pejorative term people like to use.  Setting aside the mistake of targeting Jorge Lopez specifically (which was easy to be worried about in real-time), it's hard to think of the return it would have taken from another team to pry a lefty starting prospect like Povich away from me.  And it's not like Povich himself is super special, but still having him now might have made roster management easier this season and perhaps more so next year.  The drafting part of the FO is hitting on all cylinders but their talent evaluation at the minors and majors level, both inside the organization and outside, must be being done by other individuals because I have serious questions about their acumen over the span of several seasons now.

[singlesoverwalks]

I think the front office makes decent decisions given their constraints, but the on-field management is a big problem. Not that we have a perfect roster, but we could have had that wildcard spot. In other words, we need a new manager.

[bean5302]

10 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Was thinking the exact same thing. 

If they fire everyone, does that get fans off of their back and buy them time to not spend money?

Nope. That's not enough. Jim Pohlad (not spokesperson, Joe) needs to make a statement about things. Take ownership for the hard reverse in team financial direction, and an overcorrection on salary reduction. Confirm this is the most disappointing year in his tenure of owning the Minnesota Twins.

Then confirm Dave St. Peter is changing roles while the Twins pursue a fresh new perspective on how to get fans engaged with the team again, and fix the TV situation. Pohlad should admit ownership's role in the TV debacle, and make it clear the reason Target Field hasn't been drawing is a failure on the part of the front office and marketing rather than the fans not supporting the team.

Finally, confirm the Twins are parting ways with Derek Falvey and Thad Levine with the intent of finding a new, experienced GM to run the baseball operations side. He can hark back to the position ownership had last year, that it was time for the Twins to be advancing in the playoffs, not just making them, and that ownership is committed to building a World Series Championship team, not just a .500 ballclub or just making the playoffs.

[bean5302]

5 hours ago, DJL44 said:

If they really feel they need to keep Rocco because he is under contract and they don't want to pay two managers then that's one more piece of evidence that the bottom line is more important than winning.

I think firing Rocco now is a mistake. Let the new GM decide whether or not he wants Rocco.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, pierre75275 said:

I would not hold your breath.

Nothing will change.

Attendance will.

[bean5302]

3 hours ago, NYCTK said:

Based on recent attendance, you can probably get a couple! 

No way. When the Pohlad's creak open the dusty wallets for any type of decent giveaway, they're gone 30+min before game time. Some gates run out 1+hrs before game time.

[bean5302]

2 hours ago, Riverbrian said:

As I watched the game... I kept saying to myself. Povich is shutting us completely down. Povich shouldn't be shutting anyone down but... with our hitters he hung zeros as he lowered his ERA from 5.59 to 5.20...

Look at Povich's recent starts, man. It looks like he's figuring stuff out. Last 5 starts 2.60 ERA, 3.13 FIP, 3.42 xFIP 10.41 K/9, 2.60 BB/9.

[D. Hocking]

1 hour ago, Riverbrian said:

Look for Italian Restaurants specifically. 

They must have an Olive Garden somewhere.  

I would go to the local markets and purchase the food there.  I bet their Chef Boyardee is amazing.

Even when they were winning games and had a good record, they often seemed a little flat this year.   That is a bit true of last year as well, the pitching kept them in the race until the offense finally caught fire later in the season.

[Parfigliano]

51 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

Attendance will.

Attendance will crater if they trade Pablo

[Parfigliano]

51 minutes ago, bean5302 said:

No way. When the Pohlad's creak open the dusty wallets for any type of decent giveaway, they're gone 30+min before game time. Some gates run out 1+hrs before game time.

Went to a Dodgers game against TC a couple years ago.  They gave out 40,000 Freddie Freeman bobble heads.  Wife and I both got one. 

TC giving 5,000 fan appreciation hats.

[bean5302]

19 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Attendance will crater if they trade Pablo

Nobody cares if Pablo pitches for the Twins next year. Like zero people. It won't matter 100 season ticket packages. Attendance went up after Kirby Puckett retired. Attendance went up after Joe Mauer retired. Lopez is just another good, but not great pitcher. If Lopez left and the Twins brought in Blake Snell (not happening in a million years), nobody would care that Lopez wasn't here anymore. Fans do not care about players. They care about the team. Nobody was devastated when Kyle Gibson left. Attendance went up after Jose Berrios was traded.

Also, it's 10,000 hats, not 5,000, but still. Fan appreciation for 1/4 of the stadium capacity, LOL. We appreciate 25% of you who might attend, haha. I do believe the total is 10,000 and season ticket holders are allowed to purchase give-a-ways before the season. My guess is maybe 8,000 hats are left after season ticket holders are forced to purchase the "free give-a-ways" if they actually want a shot at getting them.

[NYCTK]

33 minutes ago, Parfigliano said:

Attendance will crater if they trade Pablo

Attendance will fall regardless. 

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

1 hour ago, S Bart said:

 

AL LEAGUE AS OF TODAY Starters

6th in strikeouts

8th in innings pitched

5th in wins

He had a couple of bad loses that boosted his ERA.  It does not help when there is no hitting to help him out. You are right, hopefully his ERA will match the 22 million. Regardless, there are several on the list below that are not pitching at all and some who are making a sum, e.g. Verlander has a 5.55, Scherzer a 3.95 with a 2-4 W/L record.. Corbin a 5.62, DeGroom has pitched 10 innings this year, So, hopefully can surpass those individuals.

MLB's highest-paid starting pitchers in 2024 AS OF MARCH, 2024:

• 1. Los Angeles Dodgers RHP Shohei Ohtani: $70 million

• 2. Texas Rangers RHP Max Scherzer: $43.3 million

• 2. Houston Astros RHP Justin Verlander: $43.3 million

• 4. Texas Rangers RHP Jacob deGrom: $40 million

• 5. New York Yankees RHP Gerrit Cole: $36 million

• 6. Washington Nationals LHP Patrick Corbin: $35.4 million

• 7. Washington Nationals RHP Stephen Strasburg: $35 million

• 8. New York Yankees LHP Carlos Rodon: $27.8 million

• 9. Philadelphia Phillies RHP Aaron Nola: $24.5 million

• 10. Seattle Mariners RHP Luis Castillo: $24.2 million

 

Not sure where you pulled this list from. Blake Snell should be on it. A bunch of those guys will be dropping off it next year.

Funny enough, in addition to Pablo next year, Sonny Gray will also make a comet-like appearance near the top of that list in 2025, based on how his contract was structured. 

Ohtani belongs not on the starting pitcher list but on the ‘Unicorns’ list, with him as the only name on that list. 🙂

[lukeduke1980]

3 hours ago, Maybe Next Year said:

Funny- Cleveland's payroll is $30 million less than the Twins, Detroit's was $22 million less and KC's was $10 million less.  Gee, how did they all make the playoffs with such a low payroll?  This is proof it isn't just a spending issue- it's a front office and manager issue. The manager is horrible and the front office isn't much better. Time to clean house!

I haven't been a Rocco hater, but look at Detroits team.  Tarik Skubal and 25 other guys.  And A J Hinch.  

[OvertheHill]

I don’t know exactly how to quantify it, but after taking in (in person, broadcast, online) most of the games this year (I’m retired), I’m puzzled to think of how an organization could get LESS on field performance than what we’ve seen, given the payroll and talent we have. I’ve voiced my great displeasure with the movement toward new analytics seemingly driving every lineup and on field decision. It’s producing a boring brand and is making it hard for me to get behind the players the way I’m used to. But beyond that, I’m still wondering if I’d have a better fan experience if I was watching an organization that was honestly trying to build towards something from the ground up. The apparent lack of emphasis on the basic fundamentals is appalling to me. I’d feel better about a massive housecleaning even if that meant being realistic about not having a championship type team next year. As it is, I feel like I’m being lied to by the organization with how things have played out. As far as Rocco, as far as I can tell he’s a high character, positive person. I liked him as a player with the Devil Rays, probably would love to have a beer with him. As a professional baseball manager, I’d look elsewhere for what I want our young players learning and growing with. Full disclosure - I’m not that fluent in pro sports financial analysis and frankly don’t have the energy for it. I love baseball, I’m a lifelong Twins fan, and just want pleasure/entertainment from the experience. 
I hope they accommodate that going forward. 

[JD-TWINS]

15 hours ago, ashbury said:

Rocco's use of Funderburk was in direct contradiction of what he said in yesterday's post game about not giving up until elimination was mathematically official.

Look at the Bullpen chart above - Blewett threw 39 pitches Thursday - Tonkin threw 18 pitches on Thursday - Thielbar had already pitched in the game - Funderburk is the only guy left that hadn’t thrown the two previous days consecutively.

3 soft contact hits and he was in trouble - not pitching poorly just getting nicked to death.

They DO NOT SCORE runs………. the Managerial decisions to use pitchers that are available aren’t the problem - strategy isn’t losing games - averaging 1-2 runs per game is a real problem………hitters need to look in the mirror!

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, Hosken Bombo Disco said:

Not sure where you pulled this list from. Blake Snell should be on it. A bunch of those guys will be dropping off it next year.

Funny enough, in addition to Pablo next year, Sonny Gray will also make a comet-like appearance near the top of that list in 2025, based on how his contract was structured. 

Ohtani belongs not on the starting pitcher list but on the ‘Unicorns’ list, with him as the only name on that list. 🙂

????

[JD-TWINS]

1 hour ago, NYCTK said:

Attendance will fall regardless. 

Mr. Upbeat in New York………

[NYCTK]

Just now, JD-TWINS said:

Mr. Upbeat in New York………

Sorry to tell it like it is. Unless something drastic is done, attendance will fall. I can lie if you'd prefer. 

This incompetent organization was expecting a rise in attendance after '23 and anyone paying attention knew that wasn't gonna happen. Came about 300,000 people short of projected, which has to be at least $15 million in game day revenue. 

And probably another $15 million next season.

Thank goodness they right sized by $30 million to save money! 

[NYCTK]

1 hour ago, lukeduke1980 said:

I haven't been a Rocco hater, but look at Detroits team.  Tarik Skubal and 25 other guys.  And A J Hinch.  

This just tells me you don't know anything about their team. 

Whats is incredible is they became just the second team to successfully utilize openers as a pitching strategy. Pretty cool if we're being honest. 

[rv78]

4 hours ago, Aggies7 said:

The entire organization needs to get back to teaching fundamentals. It was glaringly obvious that guys coming up from the minors were terrible at basic baseball skills, like baserunning and holding baserunners. Situational hitting. How could a guy like austin martin not be able to get a bunt down? I guess when you’re so obsessed with numbers you have less time for the basic stuff that’s won baseball games for 150 years. 

The powers that be (the FO and Rocco) won big in 2019 with the HR ball setting a MLB record. They've gone whole hog in that direction and now they are paying the price. You don't teach fundamentals, like baserunning, holding runners, sacrificing, bunting, situational hitting, opposite field hitting, etc, etc, if your only goal is to hit the ball as hard as you can, swinging for the fences. Without even checking, I'd be willing to bet the majority of the games they won were games they hit at least 1 HR or more, and the games they couldn't score enough to win, they didn't hit any. 

[NYCTK]

13 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

Funderburk is the only guy left that hadn’t thrown the two previous days consecutively.

Who cares? In June, sure. If you've given up? Sure. But if you're claiming to try to win the game, that's irrelevant. 

[chinmusic]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Now do one for Bailey Over, I mean Ober.

Sights set on next Oct-Ober

[Original_JB]

2 hours ago, bean5302 said:

No way. When the Pohlad's creak open the dusty wallets for any type of decent giveaway, they're gone 30+min before game time. Some gates run out 1+hrs before game time.

You got that right. I got an e-mail last night celebrating "Fan Appreciation Weekend" with a wheel to spin to win various prizes. Supposed to run through Sunday. I "clicked to win" about 1 pm today (Saturday) to get to the wheel and arrived at a page bannered with "This Promotion is Over"....

[JD-TWINS]

1 minute ago, NYCTK said:

Sorry to tell it like it is. Unless something drastic is done, attendance will fall. I can lie if you'd prefer. 

This incompetent organization was expecting a rise in attendance after '23 and anyone paying attention knew that wasn't gonna happen. Came about 300,000 people short of projected, which has to be at least $15 million in game day revenue. 

And probably another $15 million next season.

Thank goodness they right sized by $30 million to save money! 

You say attendance is poor, or going to drop, 3 times a day for last week ……, don’t recall a lot of posts nearly all season …….maybe I missed them but I’m on here every day so doubtful.

26,000 and change last night with the season essentially over from a competitive standpoint. People in MN will go out and watch Pro-sports - no matter which team, if they’re competitive. Twins will be competitive or better making nearly zero changes to pitching and only a handful toward refreshing the offense.

2 days ago I said any forecast of more than 2% increase over ‘23 draw of 1.97 million would have been careless with all the TV issues that came out of the Winter. I also said they wouldn’t be more than 35-70K light on attendance (using your $75/fan revenue number) that would result in a maximum shortfall of ($75 x 70,000) $5.25M max. …………my comments were in response to what you had called out ……… then, you gave my comments a thumbs up!!! Today you’re back at the chicken little attitude on attendance……let it go instead of acting like the definitive Nostradamus .

[JD-TWINS]

16 minutes ago, NYCTK said:

Who cares? In June, sure. If you've given up? Sure. But if you're claiming to try to win the game, that's irrelevant. 

It’s not irrelevant if guys aren’t going to be effective - it’s not fantasy baseball. I’m not concerned with innings for the year at this point but guys can’t throw 20 plus pitches 3 days in a row at the end of September. The announcers were discussing the topic from 2nd inning forward ……,”pen is extremely short tonight”. Sure 2-3 of those guys were available if absolutely needed but not with 14 outs to go.

[BillyBallLives]

9 hours ago, CRF said:

Get ready for more of the same next season. Very disappointing.

 

I remember the 86 Twins.  They had a good core to start with. Guys like Hrbek , Gagne, Gary Gaetti, Viola , Burt Blyleven, etc ...In the off-season, acquired Gladden, Juan B, Jeff Reardon. We know how the story ends. 

 

Question is. Do we have a front office that has a clue about what moves to make? An owner that will prevent any possibly of acquiring a game changing FA? 

That's what kills any hope for me. 

[NYCTK]

22 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

You say attendance is poor, or going to drop, 3 times a day for last week ……, don’t recall a lot of posts nearly all season …….maybe I missed them but I’m on here every day so doubtful.

26,000 and change last night with the season essentially over from a competitive standpoint. People in MN will go out and watch Pro-sports - no matter which team, if they’re competitive. Twins will be competitive or better making nearly zero changes to pitching and only a handful toward refreshing the offense.

2 days ago I said any forecast of more than 2% increase over ‘23 draw of 1.97 million would have been careless with all the TV issues that came out of the Winter. I also said they wouldn’t be more than 35-70K light on attendance (using your $75/fan revenue number) that would result in a maximum shortfall of ($75 x 70,000) $5.25M max. …………my comments were in response to what you had called out ……… then, you gave my comments a thumbs up!!! Today you’re back at the chicken little attitude on attendance……let it go instead of acting like the definitive Nostradamus .

We were guessing. And the there was actual reporting. And now I'm guessing again. 

This is fun. This is supposed to be fun. 

[NYCTK]

16 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

It’s not irrelevant if guys aren’t going to be effective - it’s not fantasy baseball. I’m not concerned with innings for the year at this point but guys can’t throw 20 plus pitches 3 days in a row at the end of September. The announcers were discussing the topic from 2nd inning forward ……,”pen is extremely short tonight”. Sure 2-3 of those guys were available if absolutely needed but not with 14 outs to go.

I don't take their word seriously. Pitchers can pitch three days in a row if needed. Rocco didn't think it was needed, cause he'd given up. But we all had so, makes sense. 

[D.C Twins]

3 hours ago, ashbury said:

Now do one for Bailey Over, I mean Ober.

How about... you've been Rocco Rolled!