Twins (Ober) vs Padres (Perez): 8/20/24, 8:40pm

[RpR]

2 minutes ago, IndianaTwin said:

Why not?

They are trying to win, and his last strike shows why not.

The two before him hit the ball, he whiffed at ball well out of the strike zone.

[IndyTwinsFan]

1 minute ago, CoastiePilot08 said:

Not giving up. Just realistic. 

Agreed!  Reality hurts sometimes.  This is one of those cases.

[jaimedude]

Bullpen depth is shallow. 

[IndyTwinsFan]

Just now, jaimedude said:

Bullpen depth is shallow. 

Along with no lefty they can count on to be at least semi-reliable.

[exeoud]

Also, people should realize this team is always going to be heavily injured since players with injury concerns cost less on the free agent and trade market. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

[CoastiePilot08]

Padres are the example of an example of an owner who gives a **** and wants to win. 
 

twins are the other end. 

[Parfigliano]

16 minutes ago, jaimedude said:

Bullpen depth is shallow. 

Its rain on flat cement deep

[IndianaTwin]

7 minutes ago, RpR said:

They are trying to win, and his last strike shows why not.

The two before him hit the ball, he whiffed at ball well out of the strike zone.

Against righties, Larnach has a .769 OPS. Margot is at .543. 

There’s plenty to question elsewhere, but that seems like a no-brainer. 

[cheeseheadgophfan]

Jax threw 10 pitches in the 7th......he couldn't pitch the 8th?

Sands is available..

Alcala has been great minus the last outing.

Instead........we go to Okert.   

This one's on you Rocco

[Peter]

After last night how do twins bounce back from this ? 😤🤬😥😭

[insagt1]

It was intensely sad watching Okert last night. What is this obsession with having a reliever only go one inning when he is pitching well and his count is very low? Play to win each game, not be a slave to 'the book'. Use your best and worry about the next day tomorrow. Tomorrow may not matter if you don't take care of today. (nightmares of the O's failure to use their closer in that awful loss to Toronto in the one-and-done playoff game)

That terrible 8th inning sure kills confidence that this team can win in October. Not to mention they ran themselves out of a possible big inning with the runner getting thrown out at 3rd on the pinch single. (yeah the left fielder made a great throw but still...)

As a fan who wants to win them all, this loss was very depressing. But the manager knows what he's doing, right? Right? Or not right...

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

The Twins aren't catching Cleveland. To have a chance, they'll need to sweep those four games in September. Good luck with that.

I first mentioned losing games at the margins a while back and I was labeled a Rocco hater and called out for being a bot - saying the same thing after every game.

Welp, if Sunday and last night aren't proof of his being a bad in-game manager, I'm not sure what is. The man has ZERO feel for the game. Bringing Okert into the game when you had Sands available and Jax could have reasonably thrown another inning - it is managerial malpractice.

If the White Sox had a pulse this year, the Twins would likely be hovering around .500 and be out of the playoff hunt - that's for the folks clinging to the faulty narrative of 'but they're so many games over .500 so Rocco can't possibly suck'...

[Squirrel]

1 hour ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

The Twins aren't catching Cleveland. To have a chance, they'll need to sweep those four games in September. Good luck with that.

I first mentioned losing games at the margins a while back and I was labeled a Rocco hater and called out for being a bot - saying the same thing after every game.

Welp, if Sunday and last night aren't proof of his being a bad in-game manager, I'm not sure what is. The man has ZERO feel for the game. Bringing Okert into the game when you had Sands available and Jax could have reasonably thrown another inning - it is managerial malpractice.

If the White Sox had a pulse this year, the Twins would likely be hovering around .500 and be out of the playoff hunt - that's for the folks clinging to the faulty narrative of 'but they're so many games over .500 so Rocco can't possibly suck'...

I actually did a search on the word ‘hater’ … no one has called you that or labeled you that. That label is on you trying to defend your opinions. As for being called a bot, that was dealt with by another moderator, and yes, name calling isn’t allowed. What so many here fail to realize is their opinions aren’t the law, they aren’t more right than someone else’s, no matter how strongly you feel about them. People are allowed to dislike Rocco and to be critical of him, others are allowed to disagree. But when many game threads digress into everything is Rocco’s fault, well, you are going to get disagreement. It’s not as easy as that, imho. Players have to execute. A manager has to have good players to turn to. I have been critical of the FO before in their construction of the BP. I’ve gone so far as to say it might even be more important to have ‘lights out, shut’em down’ relievers than it is to have one ace starter. Does the manager affect the outcome? Sure. Personally, I don’t think it’s as often as you and some others claim. The responsibility lies mostly with the players to execute. We’ve heard many player interviews say they know what their roles are going to be each game, so, do it. But if you don’t have the players to do it, that’s on the FO. My biggest gripe with the manager is he has a script and he follows it. If he didn’t, we’d have someone who would. And many wouldn’t like that manager any better.

But stop playing victim here. You aren’t one. You share your opinions, some I agree with, some I don’t. Some others agree with, some others don’t. All we ask of posters on this site is to be respectful of one another and those on the field. You don’t have to like anyone, you can be critical all you want, disagree with others all you want, but you have proven to be smart enough to form good points and rebuttals, so don’t resort to easy labels of others or yourself. And that goes for everyone.

Losing sucks. And I agree the Twins need to win more games that are winnable. But I don’t think that’s on the manager as much as you do. Players have to execute. And if they aren’t up to the task, the FO needs to find those who are. And yes, the manager has to manage that. It’s a team sport. It’s on everyone.

i didn’t see the game last night, was following, loosely, on gameday because I was mostly otherwise occupied. I saw the score when it was 5-3 Twins. Great. We’re doing something right against a team I think is better. Then I saw the final and saw 4 runs in Okert’s line. Ugh. Of course it’s Okert. I wish they had sent him down long ago … I think he has an option left? But now, ugh, just DFA already is my opinion. Move Varland to the pen already. I don’t know what else at this point.

[Squirrel]

10 hours ago, Beast said:

Why is Okert even in the game right now?

Thats not the right question, imo … it’s why is even even on the team. He should’ve been dealt with long ago. Thank you FO.

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

I actually did a search on the word ‘hater’ … no one has called you that or labeled you that. That label is on you trying to defend your opinions. As for being called a bot, that was dealt with by another moderator, and yes, name calling isn’t allowed. What so many here fail to realize is their opinions aren’t the law, they aren’t more right than someone else’s, no matter how strongly you feel about them. People are allowed to dislike Rocco and to be critical of him, others are allowed to disagree. But when many game threads digress into everything is Rocco’s fault, well, you are going to get disagreement. It’s not as easy as that, imho. Players have to execute. A manager has to have good players to turn to. I have been critical of the FO before in their construction of the BP. I’ve gone so far as to say it might even be more important to have ‘lights out, shut’em down’ relievers than it is to have one ace starter. Does the manager affect the outcome? Sure. Personally, I don’t think it’s as often as you and some others claim. The responsibility lies mostly with the players to execute. We’ve heard many player interviews say they know what their roles are going to be each game, so, do it. But if you don’t have the players to do it, that’s on the FO. My biggest gripe with the manager is he has a script and he follows it. If he didn’t, we’d have someone who would. And many wouldn’t like that manager any better.

But stop playing victim here. You aren’t one. You share your opinions, some I agree with, some I don’t. Some others agree with, some others don’t. All we ask of posters on this site is to be respectful of one another and those on the field. You don’t have to like anyone, you can be critical all you want, disagree with others all you want, but you have proven to be smart enough to form good points and rebuttals, so don’t resort to easy labels of others or yourself. And that goes for everyone.

Losing sucks. And I agree the Twins need to win more games that are winnable. But I don’t think that’s on the manager as much as you do. Players have to execute. And if they aren’t up to the task, the FO needs to find those who are. And yes, the manager has to manage that. It’s a team sport. It’s on everyone.

i didn’t see the game last night, was following, loosely, on gameday because I was mostly otherwise occupied. I saw the score when it was 5-3 Twins. Great. We’re doing something right against a team I think is better. Then I saw the final and saw 4 runs in Okert’s line. Ugh. Of course it’s Okert. I wish they had sent him down long ago … I think he has an option left? But now, ugh, just DFA already is my opinion. Move Varland to the pen already. I don’t know what else at this point.

I wasn't literally called a 'hater'. It's semantics. Posters took issue with the criticisms of Rocco and communicated that in a variety of ways. And not trying to make myself out as a victim. I'm fine with folks having different opinions and I enjoy the back and forth on TD especially the game day threads. 

I was highlighting Sunday and last night as probably the two most glaring examples of how Rocco's in game managing have cost this team.

The bullpen isn't all on Rocco. Ownership didn't do him any favors. But he's compounded the issue by making some really odd and costly decisions.

It is what it is. Just get in the playoffs somehow. Hope that Correa and Buxton get healthy and see what happens.

Unrelated to this - the lack of updates on Correa is becoming extremely concerning. Was supposedly cleared for baseball activities but nothing on a rehab stint down in SPL.

[Squirrel]

30 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

I wasn't literally called a 'hater'. It's semantics. Posters took issue with the criticisms of Rocco and communicated that in a variety of ways. And not trying to make myself out as a victim. I'm fine with folks having different opinions and I enjoy the back and forth on TD especially the game day threads. 

I was highlighting Sunday and last night as probably the two most glaring examples of how Rocco's in game managing have cost this team.

The bullpen isn't all on Rocco. Ownership didn't do him any favors. But he's compounded the issue by making some really odd and costly decisions.

It is what it is. Just get in the playoffs somehow. Hope that Correa and Buxton get healthy and see what happens.

Unrelated to this - the lack of updates on Correa is becoming extremely concerning. Was supposedly cleared for baseball activities but nothing on a rehab stint down in SPL.

Yes, we need Correa and Buxton.

The bottom line for me is the players have to execute when called upon. Period. I question Okert being on the team at all at this point. That isn’t on Rocco. But you can’t use the same three people people every night. I’ve seen it on these boards before. He goes for Sands instead of Okert and Sands blows it, it’s Rocco’s fault for going with Sands. I think it’s an illogical pov at this point driven by an already and justified dislike. It’s a team sport. You hope that everyone comes together all at the same time for win after win. That’s never gonna happen. I want to win it all as much as the next person, but I’ve also learned to manage my expectations. And I still don’t think Rocco has cost the team that many losses. I think the players have more. It is them who plays the game. And I think the FO has more for lack of a better payroll. 

[Twins_Fan_in_NJ]

1 hour ago, Squirrel said:

Yes, we need Correa and Buxton.

The bottom line for me is the players have to execute when called upon. Period. I question Okert being on the team at all at this point. That isn’t on Rocco. But you can’t use the same three people people every night. I’ve seen it on these boards before. He goes for Sands instead of Okert and Sands blows it, it’s Rocco’s fault for going with Sands. I think it’s an illogical pov at this point driven by an already and justified dislike. It’s a team sport. You hope that everyone comes together all at the same time for win after win. That’s never gonna happen. I want to win it all as much as the next person, but I’ve also learned to manage my expectations. And I still don’t think Rocco has cost the team that many losses. I think the players have more. It is them who plays the game. And I think the FO has more for lack of a better payroll. 

Sure, players have to execute. But when players don't execute, regardless of the sport, it is the coach or manager that ultimately are held accountable. Some of the mistakes that we see - baserunning, botched plays in the field, lack of situational hitting, poor pitch selection - we're talking about basic stuff for competent major league players. I'd love to compare the Twins' pre-game workouts and walk-through's to what you get from a team like Cleveland or Kansas City because the Twins are more talented, top to bottom, than both of those teams. 

As for the microlevel view of Okert last night, I would eat my hat if there was ever an instance this season where fans criticized Rocco for NOT bringing Okert into a game with the exception of a scenario where it was a lefty-lefty matchup and Thielbar got the nod and proceeded to crap the bed. Sands has been the Twins' 3rd best reliever all season long. Unless Sands was unavailable last night, there's zero reason to go with Okert. Part of being a manager is putting players in position to succeed and pushing the right buttons. 

 

 

[cmoss84]

13 hours ago, cmoss84 said:

Bottom line is...if you don't get arms at the deadline, you are not a true contender.

@Shaitan

Just curious because I do value your opinion...you think we have the pitching to make a strong playoff push?

[Squirrel]

37 minutes ago, Twins_Fan_in_NJ said:

Sure, players have to execute. But when players don't execute, regardless of the sport, it is the coach or manager that ultimately are held accountable. Some of the mistakes that we see - baserunning, botched plays in the field, lack of situational hitting, poor pitch selection - we're talking about basic stuff for competent major league players. I'd love to compare the Twins' pre-game workouts and walk-through's to what you get from a team like Cleveland or Kansas City because the Twins are more talented, top to bottom, than both of those teams. 

As for the microlevel view of Okert last night, I would eat my hat if there was ever an instance this season where fans criticized Rocco for NOT bringing Okert into a game with the exception of a scenario where it was a lefty-lefty matchup and Thielbar got the nod and proceeded to crap the bed. Sands has been the Twins' 3rd best reliever all season long. Unless Sands was unavailable last night, there's zero reason to go with Okert. Part of being a manager is putting players in position to succeed and pushing the right buttons. 

 

 

If players don’t know how to play the game by the time they reach the show, then that is on the development staff. At this level, they will never catch up with just pregame warmups. I’m not saying they can’t be coached, but learning and instruction should have happened by now. We don’t know what happens off the field, so I’m not ready to point fingers at specific people. You and I are just not going to see it the same way, except when it comes to Correa, which is fine … the way of the world. It’d be a pretty boring place if we all agreed about everything.