Moving Louie Varland to the Bullpen would be Malpractice

[August J Gloop]

1 hour ago, Jocko87 said:

The difference is that this is a young pitcher on the rise who can reasonably project some where higher.  We are all tired of and don’t want washed up vets at the back of the rotation but those innings are valuable during the regular season. Varland should get a shot to show what he’s brought back from driveline.

And yes, Varland is the exact profile of what they are looking to trade for.  Young, controlled, promising, some MLB experience but with a few tweaks they can unlock a stud.  I don’t know that Varland himself would be a guy they would target but the profile certainly is. What we clamber for is irrelevant.

But my point is what about Varland can you profile will get better without significant pitch quality improvement? As soon as the league got a few looks at his offspeeds, it was game over. He seems like the sort of fella who will work hard to add, sure. He has the physicality to do it, but right now without much improvement, he profiles as a great reliever. He's a way below average starter or a great reliever. 

I hope to be totally wrong about it (like all my cautious or critical positions on Twins players), for sure, cuz I'd love to see Lou be a big time starter. 

[Beast]

Not bringing in a better starter and needing Varland in the rotation is malpractice.

Choosing to slash  payroll with a group of up and coming  young players developing a taste for winning is malpractice.

This FO and ownership group employ malpractice as their MO.  They seemingly do what they can to make sure this team is incapable of winning a World Series.  Using a home run plagued back of the rotation starter in the bullpen, where he is clearly most effective, is the least of the issues.  It is non-issue that has almost zero impact on whether this is a good baseball team.

[wabene]

14 minutes ago, Beast said:

Not bringing in a better starter and needing Varland in the rotation is malpractice.

Choosing to slash  payroll with a group of up and coming  young players developing a taste for winning is malpractice.

This FO and ownership group employ malpractice as their MO.  They seemingly do what they can to make sure this team is incapable of winning a World Series.  Using a home run plagued back of the rotation starter in the bullpen, where he is clearly most effective, is the least of the issues.  It is non-issue that has almost zero impact on whether this is a good baseball team.

So Louie is a finished product? He has no chance of improving? 

[TopGunn#22]

This is why, even though the Twins haven't shown a willingness to do this, I think having Paddack start the game and Varland piggyback with him is the best way forward.  Both Paddack and Varland fill innings for the Twins, hopefully effectively, and putting less stress on the bullpen when they get the Twins through the 7th or 8th inning. 

They both stay "stretched out" and depending on pitches thrown, either could fill up to 5 innings in an appearance.  This also leaves the "Wild Card" of Matt Canterino available to fill the 8th inning role eventually.  Canterino would have to prove his health and effectiveness FIRST.  But let's say he does BOTH.  After the All Star break or by August 1st, Canterino could be filling that 8th inning set up role. 

Guys who were VERY effective last year--Funderburk, Stewart, can continue to grow into a bigger role if performance dictates they should.  Jax, not being overused, would see his effectiveness improve.  Theilbar is effective when healthy, he's just on the I.L. more and more frequently as he's aging.  

But none of this makes sense or is possible if the Twins fail to add someone who truly should slot in the #2 SP spot.  If that guy is not BETTER than Ryan or Ober, there is an acute need for Paddack and Varland to be used separately as "stand alone" SP's and that presents a domino effect stress on the bullpen if one of both aren't pitches well, or reasonably deep into games.   

[jmlease1]

2 hours ago, Cory Engelhardt said:

I would imagine they will treat a major league signing, with Paddack, as working together for make sure the 5th spot is covered. It's always good to have depth. But maybe that is too much? 

1. Lopez
2. Playoff level starter via trade
3. Ryan
4. Ober
5. Paddack
6. MLB free agent signing
7. Duran
8. Jax
9. Varland
10. Stewart
11. Thielbar
12. Funderburk
13. Rotating arm from St. Paul

Well, I think Alcala is going to get a shot this year if he's healthy: the team likes his stuff and he's shown flashes of real ability in the bullpen before his injury, and one of Balazovic, Winder, or Sands is likely to make the roster as well. Which means there's really only room for Varland in the bullpen if they don't sign anyone, and in the rotation if they're unable to sign/trade for anyone. I strongly suspect they will acquire a starter with some kind of pedigree before the season starts, most likely via trade. (I also expect a great deal of disagreement over how good that starter actually is, with people staking out positions that range between quality #2 and "that bum shouldn't even be on a playoff team!" almost regardless of who it is....)

I think there's a real possibility that Varland may land in the bullpen eventually, but I tend to believe that the franchise would be better off, both this season and for the future, in giving him another opportunity to stick as a starter. If he can add that 3rd pitch and keep the ball in the park, then he's a great add to the rotation for 2025...and likely will end up starting 10-20 games this season anyways, with room for him to go to the bullpen for the playoff run this year anyways. And if he can get either the slider or the changeup working consistently...he'll be even more dangerous in any role. But he won't really get enough reps to know with any real confidence in the pitch if he's not throwing it a lot more.

Do we really need Varland in the bullpen right now, when the biggest need there is not a high leverage late-inning guy, but someone to throw 1-2 innings in the 5th-7th on a semi-regular basis?

[Cory Engelhardt]

I think Varland can be that multi-inning bullpen option, that's why I like him there. IF that means he is going in the 5th or the 8th, I don't care much about that. Whatever the high leverage situation is, I like him as a "fireman" of sorts.

[DJL44]

3 hours ago, wabene said:

So Louie is a finished product? He has no chance of improving? 

Small chance. Most players have their peak season at about his age. The good news is he doesn't have to improve that much to be effective.

[tony&rodney]

Posters on Twins Daily have speculated about various trades and comments regarding starting pitching nearly always reference an expected trade for a guy to slot in behind Pablo Lopez as a playoff type starter. A few of the names thrown out include: Mitch Keller, Corbin Burnes, Jesus Luzardo, Logan Gilbert, and George Kirby. Guys like Lucas Giolito would not only be very expensive but slot in as #4 starting pitchers.

While it would be wonderful to acquire one of Seattle's main guys, it is unlikely. If the Twins were to trade, the cost will be some combination of Lewis, Lee, Ryan, or players among that group. Polanco, Kepler, Farmer, Vazquez, and minor leaguers are not going to return the kind of pitcher the Twins need. I have no idea what other teams want from the Twins. A Lewis for Kirby or Gilbert deal might work. A Ryan plus Lee for Burnes and Quero might work. These trades may be too costly for some people, including Falvey. 

Louie Varland is (as a previous comment pointed out) the type of starting pitcher the Twins are looking for, one who can pitch a full slate of innings over a full season. Ryan, Ober, Varland, and Paddack are as good as Bryce Miller or Bryan Woo or at least they are all in the same proximity. While I'm still hoping for someone like Kirby, etc. to fit into the Twins rotation, a look around the league and the dollars for free agents leaves me feeling plenty confident in Louie Varland as the #4 guy in front of Chris Paddack. We already know that Paddack is a stretch beyond 120 innings. Perhaps a surprise happens which will be welcomed if it makes the team stronger, but I'm fine with the current team.

[Hubie29]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:06 PM, Beast said:

Not bringing in a better starter and needing Varland in the rotation is malpractice.

Choosing to slash  payroll with a group of up and coming  young players developing a taste for winning is malpractice.

This FO and ownership group employ malpractice as their MO.  They seemingly do what they can to make sure this team is incapable of winning a World Series.  Using a home run plagued back of the rotation starter in the bullpen, where he is clearly most effective, is the least of the issues.  It is non-issue that has almost zero impact on whether this is a good baseball team.

Beautiful!  Couldn't have said it any better.