The Breakout Isn't Coming for Carlos Correa

[John Belinski]

Twins fans can only hope that Correa will not continue to get worse. Maybe he peaked several years ago and the Twins will have to play him for many more years. After two teams did not sign him the Twins should have been concerned, but they went ahead with a big long term contract that may hurt them for many many years. Now the Twins have two big long term contracts for players who are just not doing as well as expected. It appears the front office just did not do their homework before signing two players to big long term contracts.

[AlGoreRythm]

3 hours ago, Woof Bronzer said:

Well, calling oneself the Christian Dior of baseball players doesn't strike me as particularly humble.  It's one thing if you put up the numbers to back it up, but saying that and then performing like a black market knockoff brand doesn't really work for me.  Plus, recall that Correa openly advocated for the J Lopez trade, took it upon himself to mentor Miranda, stanned for Popkins, and convinced Buxton to DH.  Given how poorly all of those things look now, it would appear Carlos' baseball expertise isn't at the level he seems to think it is.  Again I think he needs to just focus on his own performance, which has been awful.

And yeah, padding stats in meaningless games, without any pressure, doesn't move the needle for me.  Joey Gallo has a handful of home runs this year; almost none of them have been impactful in any way.  Leaders come through when it counts.  

Like I said I knew this wouldn't be a popular opinion because it's something not easily quantified by analytics.  Sounds like we just agree to disagree.

You're basing this on a comment from a year ago when he was playing like the high end product he compared himself to, and a bunch of assumptions like Miranda would've hit better without his mentorship, or Buxton would've been better in CF, or Popkins is the reason the team can't hit.

Correa hasn't hit at all like anyone expected or would be happy with, himself included, which he's stated publicly in as humble a manner as I've seen from a professional athlete.

Explain how one can "pad stats" in baseball. Unless he took all his September at bats vs position players, he's simply performing. Claiming performance doesn't matter because the rest of the team fell apart is extremely silly in the context of baseball. Treating a leader on the baseball field the same way one thinks about a franchise QB in football shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the game.

No need for analytics to show the lack of logic in your opinion. It's obvious you didn't like the Dior comment a year ago, and your opinions going forward are informed by that more so than anything that's happened since.

So I ask again, other than not making the Dior comment a year ago, what more could he do to show humility? He's taken responsibility for not only his own poor performance at the plate, but a lot of the team's struggles as a whole. What should he be doing to show the humility you think you deserve?

[AlGoreRythm]

1 hour ago, John Belinski said:

Twins fans can only hope that Correa will not continue to get worse. Maybe he peaked several years ago and the Twins will have to play him for many more years. After two teams did not sign him the Twins should have been concerned, but they went ahead with a big long term contract that may hurt them for many many years. Now the Twins have two big long term contracts for players who are just not doing as well as expected. It appears the front office just did not do their homework before signing two players to big long term contracts

At least 2 issues here if I disregard all the hedging with "maybe" and "might"

A) Buxton's contract isn't a big contract. He makes around 15M/yr. He's making about 5M more than Vasquez, or 4M more than Gallo.

B) How would they have done more homework on Buxton? He's literally never been outside the Twins system. You could potentially argue they made a bad gamble if you somehow think Buxton's contract is too big, but you certainly can't claim they didn't do their homework.

[Nick Nelson]

4 hours ago, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Wrong take Nick...

I am saying that (potentially) because the players around him are not hitting well, teams may be less likely to give him better pitches to hit, which in turn may be affecting his approach.

In no way am I protecting Correa here his performance has been terrible.  I am saying that it would be very interesting to know WHY this year is different than previous ones and what may be causing it

Gotcha. I would say the fact that he's not hitting fastballs sort of negates the idea that he's not getting anything to hit and that's the problem. You gotta hit fastballs.

[Nick Nelson]

11 hours ago, BH67 said:

So when are you offering your services to Jim Pohlad, Nick? Serious question. And one more: Your business ventures notwithstanding, is such unending purgatory worth it?

Being frustrated when the team plays bad or makes weird decisions is part of the fan experience. Comes with the territory of being emotionally invested in a team you've followed for decades. I still have fun watching the games and enjoy talking about what's happening. I guess some people have a hard time separating those things, not me.

[saviking]

5 hours ago, jishfish said:

Or he could move to 3rd Base after 2-3 years like he was planning to do with the Mets.

If Correa starts to wear down or lose lateral mobility, move him to 3B and let Lewis or Lee play SS. If he continues to play an above average SS, then you let Lewis/Lee play 2B/3B and essentially have a three SS infield. Champagne problems.

I promise that having too many guys who can play an above average SS is not an issue.

Good point .. as long as Correa can find his swing .. which he probably will

[saviking]

5 hours ago, chpettit19 said:

I agree with @jishfish. Correa is still playing elite defense at short according to my eyes, and he can/will move to 3B when he's no longer the best defender they have at SS.

To me the question is if, as this article seems to suggest, he's actually breaking down, or if this is just a down year and he bounces back. I'm of the belief he bounces back. Lots of good numbers and charts shared here that show almost all these bigtime SS signings the last couple years had a terrible first year, then bounced back. There's something to these guys being human. Correa had a very abnormal offseason, and then, I'd guess, came in looking to have his best season ever to give the finger to the Mets and Giants and some fans.

If I'm wrong, and this is actually a physical decline at the age of 28 the Twins are definitely in trouble. But if I'm right, and he bounces back, he's not "clogging that spot." Borderline HOFers aren't "clogging spots." Nolan Arenado isn't "clogging" 3B in St Louis and forcing them to move their elite young 3B (Jordan Walker). That's not a problem. That's a blessing. And if Correa loses his mobility in 2 or 3 years you move him to 3B where his arm allows him to still be an elite fielder until the end of his 6 guaranteed years, I'd bet. 

Maybe you believe this is the start of his decline. If it is then I agree this is a terrible situation for the Twins. I just don't think it is.

True, if his hitting bounces back we're okay BUT we have a lot of dollars riding on it. The last guy we paid big buck for (Donalson) clogged the spot. 

[chpettit19]

2 minutes ago, saviking said:

True, if his hitting bounces back we're okay BUT we have a lot of dollars riding on it. The last guy we paid big buck for (Donalson) clogged the spot. 

Big money comes with big risk for sure. But Donaldson was 34 when he joined the Twins. Correa's guaranteed portion of his deal only runs til he turns 34. Correa shouldn't be on the downside of his career yet. Seems pretty reasonable to expect a bounce back after a regular offseason. But there's always risk.

[Old Twins Hat]

All I can say is I hope Mr. Correa spends more time talking about "being hungry" for a playoff run then how sexy he feels hitting .217.

 

[HrbieFan]

His effort with the bad is putrid right now. Looking at 2 called 3 strikes is not acceptable for a guy with his accolades. Dude needs to get the funk out now.  Does he need an eye exam? 

[laloesch]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:52 AM, MABB1959 said:

I also had this and all it took was wearing good shoes and a little PT.  It was gone in just a few weeks.  These players need to start taking care of themselves year long.  I have 2 competitive high level gymnasts and except for an awkward fall (it was horrifying to see) they have never been out with nagging injuries.  I attribute that to the number of hours they condition.  The pounding their bodies take is huge.  A few have retired or been sidelined with back issues,  They practice 5 days a week for 5 hours a time and much of that time is conditioning and I mean tough conditioning.  It strengthens their core to avoid all these crazy things the Twins players are so supsestable to.  Seriously should not incur a 10 day IL trip just running to 1st base.

yeah i'm glad you got over it quickly.  It was a nagging injury for me.  I do A LOT of running and i'm also in my early 40's so things don't heal as quickly as they used to, but none the less I switched to a rocker shoe because of my flat feet at the urging of a running specialist and boy was that a bad move.  I since switched back to a name brand shoe that was not a rocker and the problem went away but it took a while.

[laloesch]

On 8/4/2023 at 12:45 PM, John Belinski said:

Twins fans can only hope that Correa will not continue to get worse. Maybe he peaked several years ago and the Twins will have to play him for many more years. After two teams did not sign him the Twins should have been concerned, but they went ahead with a big long term contract that may hurt them for many many years. Now the Twins have two big long term contracts for players who are just not doing as well as expected. It appears the front office just did not do their homework before signing two players to big long term contracts.

I hope he does not get worse.  It doesn't get much worse than this besides injuries.  He's 1.0 wins above replacement this far into the season which is really REALLY bad.  If this stretches into September it might be time to start panicking.

[USAFChief]

On 8/4/2023 at 11:06 AM, Nick Nelson said:

Gotcha. I would say the fact that he's not hitting fastballs sort of negates the idea that he's not getting anything to hit and that's the problem. You gotta hit fastballs.

Indeed.

The most concerning thing to me is the fastballs he doesn't hit. 

[Greglw3]

On 8/4/2023 at 8:48 AM, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Wrong take Nick...

I am saying that (potentially) because the players around him are not hitting well, teams may be less likely to give him better pitches to hit, which in turn may be affecting his approach.

In no way am I protecting Correa here his performance has been terrible.  I am saying that it would be very interesting to know WHY this year is different than previous ones and what may be causing it

It is a fact that Rocco has run out lineups recently with 5 hitters <= .234 and 7 hitters low .240s or below. So that would buttress your theory Mr. Gladden! The real question is why have we been carrying a .180ish hitter as a regular in the lineup all season?

[Dave Borton]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:43 PM, Fire Dan Gladden said:

Would be interesting to know what (if any) things may be impacting him:  Minor injuries?

I bet the plantar fasciitis has him down in the ol' heels.