Improving This Lineup Is Not as Straightforward as You Think

[miller761]

A big help would be to have both Julien and Polanco in the lineup. Any chance Polanco could play some 1B or 3B?

[TNtwins85]

19 hours ago, Brandon said:

Trade prospects for Goldschmidt move Killeroff to LF then trade Gallo for a prospect or whatever you can.  The hard part of this is the money.  The budget is probably tapped out already which makes trading for Goldschmidt difficult.  What else can we include in the trade to help offset some dolars?  Maybe Include RP Lopez and trade Kepler for a prospect and let Larnarch and Wallner compete for RF.  Not sure how much we improve here and lots of moving parts.  
 

But I’m sure there are other more cash neutral deals out there.  Trading Gallo or Kepler for a prospect and bringing up Wallner.  Then trading for Pham or Duvall.     And still give Wallner his shot.  
 

Can Julien play 3rd?  That would solve the blockage at 2B for now.  
 

and of course the minor adjustment is giving Jeffers 60-65% of the playing time at C.  

CF we need to just give time there to Kepler whether he wants it or not.  His .720 OPS plays ok there or Duvall or Pham could get some time there if no one else wants to play CF.  Especially since we would be able to give Wallner his shot if the OF we traded for us standing in CF some nights.

but the biggest improvement should come from Buxton and Correa getting on track and hitting at the .850+ OPS level again.  
 

Our bench is pretty solid for a bench.  This regime like the last one is pretty good at building a strong bench.

Agreed. We’re not a team trying to develop anyone here. This isn’t 2016 and before. We are a win now team and if the results aren’t there someone needs to be plugged into that spot and be able to perform. If Gallo needs to be dfa’d to make that happen then so be it. Players need to perform and if they don’t then they are trade bait. Austin Martin, Wallner, Larnach, Whoever. If they’re not tearing the cover off the ball in AAA or Mlb then we need to get someone that is at this point. Plain and simple. If Wallner is hitting then he needs to be in the lineup. I don’t understand what this front office is waiting for. We’re now in second place and this season is looking more and more like 2022 than 2019 or 2020.

[JD-TWINS]

18 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

In my eyes heres what we have on todays rostor:

1B ?

2B Julien / Have to see if he is an MLB player

3B Lewis/ Most proven to date which says alot

SS Correa/ Because we have to

LF ?

CF ?

RF ?

C Jeffers 80% Vazquez 20% by default

Now fill in the rest with youngsters from the minors.  Have to cut the dead wood (Kepler, Gallo, Miranda, Castro, Taylor)

Polanco, Farmer, Kiriloff and Solano as insurance and bit players

My gawd what a pathetic roster.

Kirilloff is the starter at 1B for a few years with a healthy wrist. Get used to that.

[JD-TWINS]

I agree - the current OF is really up in the air. Taylor should play CF late in games if needed & when LH pitchers start - occasional pinch hitter. Castro in similar role.

Wallner has to be given an opportunity or featured in a trade in the next 3 weeks. Gotta see somebody different in either right or left field!!

Larnach is better option than Gallo in LF…….if only for the upside potential. Gallo has run out of upside as he’s repeating the same thing as the past 3 -4 seasons for him.

If there’s confidence in the current staff holding up, I Trade SWR - J. Lopez - Varland for the Reds starting CF ….. Friedl. He has speed - team control - BA around .300 - energy guy. Reds need pitching and can win now with pitching. It’s a big sale of arms but it solves our issues for years to come & helps them now & future.

We are at #3 league wide at DH, so that’s not our problem - 28th in CF & 26th in LF is what we need to improve greatly & right away. Lewis will solve 24th at 3B. Those 3 changes and we are in the top 11-15 offensively for last two months.

[Major League Ready]

9 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I agree - the current OF is really up in the air. Taylor should play CF late in games if needed & when LH pitchers start - occasional pinch hitter. Castro in similar role.

Wallner has to be given an opportunity or featured in a trade in the next 3 weeks. Gotta see somebody different in either right or left field!!

Larnach is better option than Gallo in LF…….if only for the upside potential. Gallo has run out of upside as he’s repeating the same thing as the past 3 -4 seasons for him.

If there’s confidence in the current staff holding up, I Trade SWR - J. Lopez - Varland for the Reds starting CF ….. Friedl. He has speed - team control - BA around .300 - energy guy. Reds need pitching and can win now with pitching. It’s a big sale of arms but it solves our issues for years to come & helps them now & future.

We are at #3 league wide at DH, so that’s not our problem - 28th in CF & 26th in LF is what we need to improve greatly & right away. Lewis will solve 24th at 3B. Those 3 changes and we are in the top 11-15 offensively for last two months.

The Reds have had one season in the past 10 years with more than 80 wins (83/2019).   They are in 1st place on a 90 win pace.  Just curious, why do you think they would they trade Friedl for anything other than an absurd return?  He is their highest WAR position player with 5 more years of control and they are just getting back in contention after a decade of futility.   

[Mike Sixel]

3 hours ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Who are the young guys you are talking about?

Larnach is 26 and has been a below average hitter since he was called up 3 years ago. Wallner is 25 and hasn't been given a chance and with the way this team has hit I don't believe this FO thinks he is a major league player.  After that, who are the young guys?

We all know young guys means less experienced. Come on. 

[Mike Sixel]

49 minutes ago, JD-TWINS said:

I agree - the current OF is really up in the air. Taylor should play CF late in games if needed & when LH pitchers start - occasional pinch hitter. Castro in similar role.

Wallner has to be given an opportunity or featured in a trade in the next 3 weeks. Gotta see somebody different in either right or left field!!

Larnach is better option than Gallo in LF…….if only for the upside potential. Gallo has run out of upside as he’s repeating the same thing as the past 3 -4 seasons for him.

If there’s confidence in the current staff holding up, I Trade SWR - J. Lopez - Varland for the Reds starting CF ….. Friedl. He has speed - team control - BA around .300 - energy guy. Reds need pitching and can win now with pitching. It’s a big sale of arms but it solves our issues for years to come & helps them now & future.

We are at #3 league wide at DH, so that’s not our problem - 28th in CF & 26th in LF is what we need to improve greatly & right away. Lewis will solve 24th at 3B. Those 3 changes and we are in the top 11-15 offensively for last two months.

Why in the world would the Reds do that? Insane.

[Hubie29]

Someone earlier mentioned Lane Thomas.  I really like him.  Would be your leadoff hitter for years. He has speed, and some power and hits for a a really good avg.  We need more players like him instead of the 30HR, 150 K's a year. Give me contact and avg before that.  Would have to give up a high prospect to get him, but I think well worth it.  I also like Friedl and Fraley from the Reds. 

[John Belinski]

20 hours ago, Hubie29 said:

Thanks for reminding me.  Larnach is another one you can demote or trade. I have zero confidence in his ability to hit and/or stay healthy.  Wallner would be the one they need to ride the rest of the year out with.  Have to figure out what he can do on an extended basis.

Just do not understand why Wallner is not on the team.  He was on base 8 times in a row before being sent down. Twins really need hitters and it appears Wallner would be a upgrade so let's give him another try.

[TwinsDr2021]

1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

We all know young guys means less experienced. Come on. 

Still goes to my question who are the guys people want called up with less experience?

Larnach has 658 MLB at bats with an OPS+ of 93, Then there is Wallner and who?

All I am asking is when people say young guys, prospects, whatever, please name them because without that is just seems like complaining without much thought put into it.

[Craig Arko]

10 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

All I am asking is when people say young guys, prospects, whatever, please name them because without that is just seems like complaining without much thought put into it.

Ha! Welcome to the Internet.

[Cris E]

1. If Buxton can't play CF then send him out and get him fixed. Look past the 15 HR and watch his at bats: you'll see he's up there guessing now and looks terrible at the plate. Is it his eyes? his knee? ankle? Don't care, they need to change something to get him back to a confident attacking approach at the plate.  Avoiding this is killing two spots in the order.

2. By this point it's clear that Kepler and Gallo are not hitting this way because they're hurt, that they have not discovered anything over last winter, that adjustments were not made. Further there are alternatives like Castro that can pick up the innings plus kids that might not be a lot worse. So it's time to find what you can get for either of them and send one out. I think we need to keep one around because we don't have a lot of depth out there, but change should come soon.

3. I'm coming to a point where I don't want to pencil in the chronically injured for a serious role. Lewis can play whenever he's here. Buxton can play as long as it lasts, we'll always need a SS in case Correa tips over, blah blah blah. But until these guys can be BYRON BUXTON again then take the hit get them fixed. Harper limped through last year but he was effective in his limited role. but then they sat him down and fixed him.

4.  We could use a real leadoff guy regardless of position.

[Mike Sixel]

28 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Still goes to my question who are the guys people want called up with less experience?

Larnach has 658 MLB at bats with an OPS+ of 93, Then there is Wallner and who?

All I am asking is when people say young guys, prospects, whatever, please name them because without that is just seems like complaining without much thought put into it.

People have named them all over this site. You've poo pooed all of them. Which is a fine opinion, but don't pretend people haven't named names. 

[Major League Ready]

9 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Still goes to my question who are the guys people want called up with less experience?

Larnach has 658 MLB at bats with an OPS+ of 93, Then there is Wallner and who?

All I am asking is when people say young guys, prospects, whatever, please name them because without that is just seems like complaining without much thought put into it.

Prato has played some LF.  It's stretch but he has a .991 OPS since being promoted to AAA.  Stevenson has a 900 OPS.  29 years old but one could argue his performance is worthy of a shot.   Of course, those arguing for less experienced guys getting an opportunity are Wallner and Larnach.  It makes zero sense to give up on Larnach because his hitting has been slightly below average.  He can definitely hit velocity but he could not lay-off low breaking balls.  It makes sense to give him an opportunity to overcome the weakness opposing scouts found.   Most are arguing find out now because we would not be losing much if they struggle a little given the current production.   Same basic logic applies to Wallner.

[Mike Sixel]

4 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Prato has played some LF.  It's stretch but he has a .991 OPS since being promoted to AAA.  Stevenson has a 900 OPS.  29 years old but one could argue his performance is worthy of a shot.   Of course, those arguing for less experienced guys getting an opportunity are Wallner and Larnach.  It makes zero sense to give up on Larnach because his hitting has been slightly below average.  He can definitely hit velocity but he could not lay-off low breaking balls.  It makes sense to give him an opportunity to overcome the weakness opposing scouts found.   Most are arguing find out now because we would not be losing much if they struggle a little given the current production.   Same basic logic applies to Wallner.

Not to mention they have zero OFers on the roster for next year, and need data on Wallner and Larnach (if they don't believe in them, trade them while someone else might).

[TwinsDr2021]

13 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

People have named them all over this site. You've poo pooed all of them. Which is a fine opinion, but don't pretend people haven't named names. 

I haven't poo pooed calling anybody up, have I said Larnach isn't young? yes, have I said I would be done with him? also yes. (and was up and wasn't good) Wallner (who I don't consider young but he is less experienced for sure) I have said should be up already. I agreed with Severino (and I added other AA players)

But when people throw out young guys (or less experienced) it sounds like they believe there are others guys on 40 or others guys in the minors, and if they call up some of players on the older side (Prato (25), Camargo (24), Williams(26 4 months until he is 27)for example) if they aren't good what is the option? cutting them or somebody? it isn't like they have a ton of room on the 40 with Celestino, Wallner, Larnach and a bunch of Mid 20's plus pitchers in the minors.

This roster is so messed up they basically have to cut Kepler or Gallo just to get Wallner or Larnach up, then when Lewis and/or Polanco come back one or two more have to go down or be cut (Miranda and Julien look like the obvious choice of going down) and then the roster doesn't look like it has room for anybody else. (not even mentioning if Gordon comes back)

No matter what happens it seems like they are going to have to figure how to move on from these mid 20's plus guys to free up 40 man. You can't go into next year with Miranda, Larnach, Wallner, Celestiono Julien on the 40 man and in the minors. with the half dozen or more pitchers that are older and they don't seem to trust.

 

 

[TwinsDr2021]

23 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not to mention they have zero OFers on the roster for next year, and need data on Wallner and Larnach (if they don't believe in them, trade them while someone else might).

They have Celestino, Gordon, Larnach, Wallner, or are you saying for sure starters?

[Major League Ready]

25 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Not to mention they have zero OFers on the roster for next year, and need data on Wallner and Larnach (if they don't believe in them, trade them while someone else might).

That's probably more important than the short-term implications.  They need to figure out if they need to play Kirilloff in the OF?  In which case, they need to find a 1B.  Do they need to budget for a free agent impact OFer?  Do they need to keep Gordon?  Can Austin Martin play a role?  It would be really poor roster management to go into next season hoping Wallner and Larnach can stick without a good look this year..

My bet is they are thinking the exact same thing as us.  Their timeframe recognizes that nobody is making trades yet.  Some teams will determine over the next 15-20 days if they are buyers or sellers.  Those who know they are sellers are not trading anyone until the last few days before the deadline unless they get a crazy offer.  The Twins will hope to trade Kepler and/or Gallo before the deadline.  I would hope Gallo gets cut if they can't find a trade partner.  We can complain if the deadline passes, and we are in the same situation.   

[TwinsDr2021]

34 minutes ago, Major League Ready said:

Prato has played some LF.  It's stretch but he has a .991 OPS since being promoted to AAA.  Stevenson has a 900 OPS.  29 years old but one could argue his performance is worthy of a shot.   Of course, those arguing for less experienced guys getting an opportunity are Wallner and Larnach.  It makes zero sense to give up on Larnach because his hitting has been slightly below average.  He can definitely hit velocity but he could not lay-off low breaking balls.  It makes sense to give him an opportunity to overcome the weakness opposing scouts found.   Most are arguing find out now because we would not be losing much if they struggle a little given the current production.   Same basic logic applies to Wallner.

I am all for just about anybody. unless I am missing something somebody needs to be cut to add another player to the 40 man, do you think that this FO is going to cut Gallo and Kepler for a completely unknown quantity? So that likely means Sands or Winder correct?

Even to get Wallner up, somebody has to go down, would that be Miranda?

[Mike Sixel]

8 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

They have Celestino, Gordon, Larnach, Wallner, or are you saying for sure starters?

None of those are on the MLB roster which I thought was clear, but I guess not.

And, Larnach and Wallner are sitting in AAA while Gallo produces the 26th worst fWAR among LFers.....so, they must not love them much. Not to mention 3 bad years from Kepler. 

Celestino might or might not be ready next year, but again, we have no idea if he can hit MLB pitching. 

Gordon is, at best, a backup. 

[Mike Sixel]

Just now, TwinsDr2021 said:

I am all for just about anybody. unless I am missing something somebody needs to be cut to add another player to the 40 man, do you think that this FO is going to cut Gallo and Kepler for a completely unknown quantity? So that likely means Sands or Winder correct?

Even to get Wallner up, somebody has to go down, would that be Miranda?

I thought he was clear it would be Gallo and/or Kepler. No one that understands positions is saying send down Miranda and call up an OFer......that makes zero sense. 

[TwinsDr2021]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

None of those are on the MLB roster which I thought was clear, but I guess not.

And, Larnach and Wallner are sitting in AAA while Gallo produces the 26th worst fWAR among LFers.....so, they must not love them much. Not to mention 3 bad years from Kepler. 

Celestino might or might not be ready next year, but again, we have no idea if he can hit MLB pitching. 

Gordon is, at best, a backup. 

Oh, 100% agree with you, was trying to figure out if that is what you meant. Thank You

[TwinsDr2021]

2 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

I thought he was clear it would be Gallo and/or Kepler. No one that understands positions is saying send down Miranda and call up an OFer......that makes zero sense. 

Again I agree, but if you are this FO are you really cutting Gallo (OPS+ - 108) with the money you spent (5 million or so left) for an unproven player? I am not, I wouldn't have signed him but that is a different story.

Or are you going cut Kepler (4 million or so left)?  So if the answer is no, you have to demote one of the following Castro, Miranda or Julien or a pitcher. I would probably cut Kepler and then I have Wallner and Larnach in case one is bad, if both are, well another really tough choice has to be made.

And because of that I assume the Twins have been calling everybody then can looking to trade them instead of cutting them or demoting someone.

At the deadline even tougher decision are going to be needed. Can they really afford not to trade Solano, Taylor or Gordon?

The more you dig into this roster the worse it gets.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Again I agree, but if you are this FO are you really cutting Gallo (OPS+ - 108) with the money you spent (5 million or so left) for an unproven player? I am not, I wouldn't have signed him but that is a different story.

Or are you going cut Kepler (4 million or so left)?  So if the answer is no, you have to demote one of the following Castro, Miranda or Julien or a pitcher. I would probably cut Kepler and then I have Wallner and Larnach in case one is bad, if both are, well another really tough choice has to be made.

And because of that I assume the Twins have been calling everybody then can looking to trade them instead of cutting them or demoting someone.

At the deadline even tougher decision are going to be needed. Can they really afford not to trade Solano, Taylor or Gordon?

The more you dig into this roster the worse it gets.

What difference does the money make? If htey call up a rookie, they are adding less than half a million to the payroll. I don't think money has anything to do with this at all. 

[TwinsDr2021]

3 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

What difference does the money make? If htey call up a rookie, they are adding less than half a million to the payroll. I don't think money has anything to do with this at all. 

Player - millions - OPS+

Gallo - 11 - 108

Farmer - 5.85 - 78

Taylor - 4.5 - 82

Solano - 2 - 121

Castro - 1.8 - 90

And they are going to flat out cut the player they signed to 11 million with a 108 OPS+ (basically having his career average year) half way though the season? and you think this ownership is going to be OK, with them pissing that money down the drain? No way! (example 272 of what is wrong with this FO) They need somebody to save their butt and take Gallo or Kepler in a trade.

[Hubie29]

54 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

They have Celestino, Gordon, Larnach, Wallner, or are you saying for sure starters?

1. Wallner - Unproven but has showed potential. Need to be an everyday player the rest of the year to determine what his future will be.

2. Celestino - Has not impressed.  Can be overlooked. 

3. Gordon - Walking infirmary. Has showed potential to be a utility player but cannot stay on the field so we cannot count on him. 

4. Larnach - Major disappointment at the MLB level. Cannot be counted on for long term. 

We are back to,  we have no proven MLB outfielders in the pipeline. Probably the easiest position to fill with .280+ hitters. Just terrible foresight by the organization. 

[Mike Sixel]

27 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

Player - millions - OPS+

Gallo - 11 - 108

Farmer - 5.85 - 78

Taylor - 4.5 - 82

Solano - 2 - 121

Castro - 1.8 - 90

And they are going to flat out cut the player they signed to 11 million with a 108 OPS+ (basically having his career average year) half way though the season? and you think this ownership is going to be OK, with them pissing that money down the drain? No way! (example 272 of what is wrong with this FO) They need somebody to save their butt and take Gallo or Kepler in a trade.

They are spending the money either way.....ownership doesnt care if they add 500K to the payroll.. 

There is no evidence this ownership group or FO is cheap. They have their highest payroll ever, and just signed CC to a massive deal. 

[Mike Sixel]

9 minutes ago, Hubie29 said:

1. Wallner - Unproven but has showed potential. Need to be an everyday player the rest of the year to determine what his future will be.

2. Celestino - Has not impressed.  Can be overlooked. 

3. Gordon - Walking infirmary. Has showed potential to be a utility player but cannot stay on the field so we cannot count on him. 

4. Larnach - Major disappointment at the MLB level. Cannot be counted on for long term. 

We are back to,  we have no proven MLB outfielders in the pipeline. Probably the easiest position to fill with .280+ hitters. Just terrible foresight by the organization. 

.280? I don't think you have any idea there......14 qualified outfielders (including cf) have that high an average right now. 14. Total.

[TwinsDr2021]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

They are spending the money either way.....ownership doesnt care if they add 500K to the payroll.. 

There is no evidence this ownership group or FO is cheap. They have their highest payroll ever, and just signed CC to a massive deal. 

I am not talking about the adding part, I am talking about the wasting of money part. Gallo is a sunk cost, unless they can get somebody else to pick up part or all of the that or even get something in return. if you have to cut somebody, why not cut the cheapest guy? That is Castro and less than a million left.

How many months ago did this FO go to ownership and request they pay Gallo 11 million dollars, and now just barely half way though we are excepting them to go back to ownership, explain they were mistaken and want to now cut a guy and pay him 5 million dollars to likely play for somebody else.

[Mike Sixel]

5 minutes ago, TwinsDr2021 said:

I am not talking about the adding part, I am talking about the wasting of money part. Gallo is a sunk cost, unless they can get somebody else to pick up part or all of the that or even get something in return. if you have to cut somebody, why not cut the cheapest guy? That is Castro and less than a million left.

How many months ago did this FO go to ownership and request they pay Gallo 11 million dollars, and now just barely half way though we are excepting them to go back to ownership, explain they were mistaken and want to now cut a guy and pay him 5 million dollars to likely play for somebody else.

That's the literal definition of sunk cost. I'm not expecting them to do anything, not sure how to make that more clear. I'm saying what I'd do.