Yankees Giving Twins Fits

[KirbyDome89]

To be clear, the Twins saved something like $10-12M in the swap with NY. So, roughly the difference in payroll between this season and last. That trade didn't suddenly unlock the ability to sign Correa to what's essentially a 1 year $35M deal. Can that notion please die now? 

Correa and Sano are almost certainly gone next year, there's $45M. This FO isn't spending on pitching, and they've made that clear. Every defensive position has either a vet locked into a team friendly deal, or a talented young player pushing through. Paying an aging Donaldson isn't the albatross it's being painted as. 

[jimbo92107]

I say buh-bye to Sanchez and Urshela. Bring up Godoy, order him to use a quick, flat contact swing for singles, work to look like Arraez. Move Lewis to 3B the day Correa gets back. 

What the Twins need more than anything else is GREAT defense up the middle (including a catcher that can glove bounced pitches), and the fewest possible holes in the batting order. This solves both problems, poof. Arraez becomes your IF sub and DH,; Gordon is your OF sub plus pinch run and hit. Lewis will be fine at the hot corner until Correa either stays or goes after the season. Plus of course, Lewis is a far, far better all around player than Urshela. 

What the Twins seem to have forgotten is that their pitching staff is not great. They are good, and great defense makes them look borderline great. Add some healthy offense, and you've got a winning team. Urshela and Sanchez both have been mostly holes at the plate, and Sanchez has the worst defensive glove I've ever seen. Anytime there's a runner, all he needs is to see a ball hit the dirt, and go. Safe, every time because Sanchez will drop the ball, giving the stealer at least an extra second. This makes the pitcher afraid to throw low breaking pitches, which for some Twins arms is their bread and butter. Same thing happens on throws to home. If the ball bounces, Sanchez will boot it. Get. Him. Out. Of. There!

[DJL44]

23 minutes ago, jimbo92107 said:

I say buh-bye to Sanchez and Urshela. Bring up Godoy, order him to use a quick, flat contact swing for singles, work to look like Arraez.

If only hitting was as easy as "See that guy? Hit like him"

Quote

Sanchez has the worst defensive glove I've ever seen

Apparently you weren't a Twins fan when Matty LeCroy or Ryan Doumit were behind the plate for the Twins

[KirbyDome89]

"It was a fine move to swap out Josh Donaldson. His place in the clubhouse may not have been ideal."

Anything to support the bolded @Ted Schwerzler? Player statements, staff interviews, anecdotal interactions, whatever? This is the second time, on a front page article, that you've implied he was a clubhouse malcontent. 

[Rosterman]

So, we can continue to beat up on the Front Office for the Yankees and Padres trades, not to mention the signing of Bundy and Archer.

Or we can sit back and enjoy that the Twins actually have a winning record with 5-6 guys on the 60-day IL and a host of other nursing injuries. 

Not to mention that Winder, Lewis, Miranda, Duran and Sands have all had debvuts with the team...did I say they have a winning record going into Mid-May!?!

Batting averages are down across baseball for some unexplianed reason beyond that guys seem to be standing exactly where balls are hit in the field. Not to mention that starters don't last and fresh arms can be had daily by any team as long as the rosters are set like they are (back to 13 pitchers come June 1 - WHO IS GONE FROM THE TWINS PEN?).

[Mike Sixel]

21 minutes ago, Rosterman said:

So, we can continue to beat up on the Front Office for the Yankees and Padres trades, not to mention the signing of Bundy and Archer.

Or we can sit back and enjoy that the Twins actually have a winning record with 5-6 guys on the 60-day IL and a host of other nursing injuries. 

Not to mention that Winder, Lewis, Miranda, Duran and Sands have all had debvuts with the team...did I say they have a winning record going into Mid-May!?!

Batting averages are down across baseball for some unexplianed reason beyond that guys seem to be standing exactly where balls are hit in the field. Not to mention that starters don't last and fresh arms can be had daily by any team as long as the rosters are set like they are (back to 13 pitchers come June 1 - WHO IS GONE FROM THE TWINS PEN?).

Apparently TD has decided bad news articles get more views?

[KirbyDome89]

3 hours ago, Major League Ready said:

I think you have to look at these trades in 2022 terms and then 2023 and beyond. The net for 2022 is we lost Donaldson and Garver.  Many insisted this would be a big downgrade but neither player is playing much above replacement level so they certainly were not going to do much to elevate our chances of making the playoffs.  Yes, Donaldson has a wRC+ of 118.  However his OPS is 722.  We would be just as well off with Arraez at 3B.  Correa  on the other hand was a very big upgrade.  Yes he had a slow start but he was hitting great before he got hit by the pitch that put him on the IL.

Looking beyond 2022, Sanchez is a free agent and Urshela will be non-tendered if he has no trade value.  They are gone.  So the net change is one more year of Garver and one additional year of Donaldson at age 37 for $21M and an 8M buyout in 2024.

As I have said from the start, I like the odds of Miranda being better than Donaldson in 2023 straight up given Donaldson will be 37.  However, the real comparison is $21M and Miranda vs Donaldson.  That’s an absolute no brainer.  Of course, we also would have had Garver in 2023 so I guess you could say we traded a year of Garver for Henriguez.  That may be a great deal or a bad deal.  We will have to make that determination down the road.  We also gain $8M in payroll for 2024.  As of today, these trades look to be a slight net gain in 2022 and great in terms of 2023 and beyond.   
 

Sure, the swap reaches beyond just this year, but the bulk of it affects '22. I don't think it was a chose A or B situation in regard to Correa and Donaldson. 

The trade was sold as the Twins buying low on Sanchez and Urshela. To date, each has been even worse than their low points in NY. It's hard to say the Twins have gained much other than money off the books in '23, and quick math says there should be plenty of that with or without Donaldson. 

The Twins have maybe broken even at C, though I'd note that Garver had a similarly rough start last year and still ended up posting pretty good numbers, and they've seemingly downgraded at 3B. It's hard to say the they've gained much other than money off the books next year (which there could/should be plenty of with or without Donaldson,) and that's assuming it's being spent wisely, if it's even spent at all. 

[KirbyDome89]

9 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

Apparently TD has decided bad news articles get more views?

Playing the results game by game is a roller coaster. There was plenty of fluff when the Twins were coming off that 9-1 stretch too. In general, analysis would ideally split the middle and be more objective. In fairness though, I don't think there's any other way to spin the Sanchez/Urshela start as awful. 

[Mike Sixel]

3 minutes ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Playing the results game by game is a roller coaster. There was plenty of fluff when the Twins were coming off that 9-1 stretch too. In general, analysis would ideally split the middle and be more objective. In fairness though, I don't think there's any other way to spin the Sanchez/Urshela start as awful. 

I'm not real thrilled with either player. 

[Buffy the Twins Fan]

I'm not actually worried about Sánchez's bat. Sabermetrics suggest some positive regression is due to occur, but even beyond the numbers, it's clear that he's been especially impacted by the new, power-sapping baseball, which has robbed him of several HRs and XBH's. He's also had many hard hit balls go just barely foul. I suspect he'll make adjustments, hit more line drives, and (hopefully) start to be a real impact player.

[RpR]

Even though this series was an insult to Twins fans, it is too early in the year to let it linger in one's attitude.

[old nurse]

15 hours ago, Mike Sixel said:

Apparently TD has decided bad news articles get more views?

It is easier to complain

Negativity draws more of a reaction. Negativity fuels politics. People seem to respond more to the negativity. More views are more money.

Edit. Forgot to add, but when it comes to trades rather than playing, we screwed the other guys is popular. Of course that involves a lot of negativity of the players dealt by analytical analysis of whatever stat backs the theory 

[old nurse]

14 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

Sure, the swap reaches beyond just this year, but the bulk of it affects '22. I don't think it was a chose A or B situation in regard to Correa and Donaldson. 

The trade was sold as the Twins buying low on Sanchez and Urshela. To date, each has been even worse than their low points in NY. It's hard to say the Twins have gained much other than money off the books in '23, and quick math says there should be plenty of that with or without Donaldson. 

The Twins have maybe broken even at C, though I'd note that Garver had a similarly rough start last year and still ended up posting pretty good numbers, and they've seemingly downgraded at 3B. It's hard to say the they've gained much other than money off the books next year (which there could/should be plenty of with or without Donaldson,) and that's assuming it's being spent wisely, if it's even spent at all. 

It is a buy low scenario for both the Rangers and the Yankees. Many people love to spin trades this way

[KirbyDome89]

6 hours ago, old nurse said:

It is a buy low scenario for both the Rangers and the Yankees. Many people love to spin trades this way

No, it wasn't. TX and NY were acquiring players with the expectation they continued to produce similarly to '21. 

[Kummel]

One thing to add to the discussion:  I have loved reading that the club this year enjoys playing together, that they are meshing.  My impression is that the vibe and energy changed when Donaldson left and Correa arrived in the clubhouse.   Sanchez was the price we paid, but it's no surprise - Yankee fans couldn't stomach his poor defense or his strike outs (before Sano's injury, I winced when I saw lineups with both Sanchez and Sano).   Urshela has made some great defensive plays.  Overall, I'm just excited to see the young talent emerging - Royce Lewis looks really sharp right off the bat.

[old nurse]

2 hours ago, KirbyDome89 said:

No, it wasn't. TX and NY were acquiring players with the expectation they continued to produce similarly to '21. 

Neither team paid much for what hey got. That would also be being low. Money and payroll may be important toe the Twins, but I really doubt the Donaldson contract amount hampered the Yankees as all. It was added leverage