Game Thread: Twins @ Chicago White Sox, 7/1921 @ 4:10pmCT

[sampleSizeOfOne]

1 minute ago, ashbury said:

Sound roster management. Garver wasn't going to catch both games, so let the guy going down catch the first one.

Didn't Jeffers catch the first?

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Minnesota

0. Jose Berrios (R) P

1. Luis Arraez (L) 2B

2. Josh Donaldson (R) 3B

3. Trevor Larnach (L) LF

4. Nelson Cruz (R) DH

5. Alex Kirilloff (L) 1B

6. Mitch Garver (R) C

7. Max Kepler (L) RF

8. Nick Gordon (L) CF

9. Andrelton Simmons (R) SS

 

Chicago

0. Reynaldo Lopez (R) P

1. Leury Garcia (S) 2B

2. Yoan Moncada (S) 3B

3. Jose Abreu (R) 1B

4. Brian Goodwin (L) CF

5. Andrew Vaughn (R) LF

6. Gavin Sheets (L) RF

7. Jake Burger (R) DH

8. Zack Collins (L) C

9. Danny Mendick (R) SS

[Danchat]

2 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Didn't Jeffers catch the first?

Rortvedt finished the game catching, but Jeffers caught most of it.

[ashbury]

2 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Didn't Jeffers catch the first?

Quite right, never mind. I was in and out of the game and remembered only Rortvedt finishing it off after the pinch runner.

[Cap'n Piranha]

12 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

Football is also a spectator sport, and has no qualms about allowing the defense to do whatever it wants on it's side of the line of scrimmage.

5 yard contact rule, no contact to the receiver if ball in air, illegal pick, etc.  Several rules debunk your statemnt.

I also don't appreciate your 'strawman' comment.  I'm not trolling, just trying to put forth a valid point.

I was referring to before the pitch/snap, which is the only time positioning for the shift is applicable.  When a play is in progress, you are correct--no sport allows defenses to do whatever they want.  Before the play commences?  Every sport allows defenses to position themselves in any way they choose (other than occupying areas designated for the offense).  I'm also not sure what strawman comment I made--let me know!

[h2oface]

6 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

Didn't Jeffers catch the first?

Yes. All but the last inning. Seems Jeffers could use some time in AAA, too. He can't hit a lick either in the show these days (except he did today).

Berrios needs to have a 7 inning stellar outing to win this game, as the pen is pretty bleak for him after game 1. 

[LVTwinsfan]

34 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I’ve been in favor of eliminating the shift for a couple of seasons now. It has become prolific and frankly, brings nothing interesting to the game from a spectator experience. Everyone has their book on a hitter and automatically shifts them. It’s not worth keeping in my eyes. 

Any team could virtually eliminate the shift by teaching all their players to bunt. How many free base hits will a team allow before it protects the whole infield instead of just one side.

[RickOShea]

1 minute ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I was referring to before the pitch/snap, which is the only time positioning for the shift is applicable.  When a play is in progress, you are correct--no sport allows defenses to do whatever they want.  Before the play commences?  Every sport allows defenses to position themselves in any way they choose (other than occupying areas designated for the offense).  I'm also not sure what strawman comment I made--let me know!

Cap'n........I'm willing to concede my point, without prejudice.  New game, new start.  

1 minute ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

I was referring to before the pitch/snap, which is the only time positioning for the shift is applicable.  When a play is in progress, you are correct--no sport allows defenses to do whatever they want.  Before the play commences?  Every sport allows defenses to position themselves in any way they choose (other than occupying areas designated for the offense).  I'm also not sure what strawman comment I made--let me know!

 

[sampleSizeOfOne]

A lead?!

 

Cool.

[Cap'n Piranha]

1 minute ago, h2oface said:

Yes. All but the last inning. Seems Jeffers could use some time in AAA, too. He can't hit a lick either in the show these days.

Berrios needs to have a 7 inning stellar outing to win this game, as the pen is pretty bleak for him after game 1. 

Jeffers has a 1.074 OPS with a 187 wRC+ against lefties this year.  Not for nothing, but for his career, Mike Trout has a 1.002 OPS with a 172 wRC+.

The problem is that when Garver is on the team, Jeffers never gets to hit against lefties.  I would imagine that the front office would be reasonably happy if they got a good trade offer for Garver this year.

[RickOShea]

Garver's a tough read.  When he's hot, he's RED hot, and when he's cold, he's absolute zero.  If he could achieve some level of consistency on offensive skills, and really work harder on his defensive, skills,  you still have a decent level player.

[Brock Beauchamp]

8 minutes ago, LVTwinsfan said:

Any team could virtually eliminate the shift by teaching all their players to bunt. How many free base hits will a team allow before it protects the whole infield instead of just one side.

I don't disagree and have been saying this for a decade or longer... and it not only hasn't happened, the prevailing thinking has gone further in the other direction. At this point, I don't think it's reasonable to expect baseball to right itself.

[Brock Beauchamp]

3 minutes ago, RickOShea said:

Garver's a tough read.  When he's hot, he's RED hot, and when he's cold, he's absolute zero.  If he could achieve some level of consistency on offensive, and really work harder on his defensive, you still have a decent level player.

Consistency or not, he's been the best hitting (or close to it) catcher two of the past three seasons. I'm not worried about his consistency as long as he doesn't spiral into one of those weird "I can't hit middle-middle fastballs" phases for months on end again.

[RickOShea]

Just now, Brock Beauchamp said:

Consistency or not, he's been the best hitting (or close to it) catcher two of the past three seasons. I'm not worried about his consistency as long as he doesn't spiral into one of those weird "I can't hit middle-middle fastball" phases for months on end again.

I would say that I could sacrifice his offensive consistency for a better catching consistency   Way too many pass balls, that allow runners to take the next base or score.  And his arm is basically for waving, and not throwing out runners.

[sampleSizeOfOne]

11 minutes ago, sampleSizeOfOne said:

A lead?!

 

Cool.

Nice while it lasted.

[h2oface]

There goes the perfect game, the no hitter, and the shutout.

[RickOShea]

Just now, h2oface said:

There goes the perfect game, the no hitter, and the shutout.

and Twins' fans interest.

[LVTwinsfan]

7 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't disagree and have been saying this for a decade or longer... and it not only hasn't happened, the prevailing thinking has gone further in the other direction. At this point, I don't think it's reasonable to expect baseball to right itself.

Ironically small ball is much more exciting than home runs/strikeouts. 

[Cap'n Piranha]

5 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

I don't disagree and have been saying this for a decade or longer... and it not only hasn't happened, the prevailing thinking has gone further in the other direction. At this point, I don't think it's reasonable to expect baseball to right itself.

But banning the shift won't fix this.  If teams currently value pulled fly balls over easy singles hit against the shift, why would they all of the sudden switch that opinion when the easy single goes away, AND there are fewer defenders on the pull side?  If the real issue here is that baseball doesn't value putting the ball in play, but instead wants to play the Three True Outcomes game, the only way to stop that is to make it more valuable for teams to hit singles and doubles.

[h2oface]

1 minute ago, RickOShea said:

and Twins' fans interest.

I'm still in this one. I like watching Berrios pitch. Works fast. Focused. And skips off the mound at times. 2Ks in the first. I'm still interested...... so far.

[Cap'n Piranha]

3 minutes ago, h2oface said:

There goes the perfect game, the no hitter, and the shutout.

All on one pitch.  Say what you will about Jose, but he's efficient!

[Cap'n Piranha]

Welcome back GarvSauce!

[sampleSizeOfOne]

Garver, as expected.

[shortround81]

As crude as it may be, if you can come back from w***** surgery to hit a home run, you have my respect

[Nine of twelve]

I've said this before--I watch Berrios' pitches on the center field camera and sometimes I don't understand how he allows any hits at all. I wonder if he simply does not have the mental discipline to throw good pitches consistently. It seems to me that there have been many times when he pitches well but just poorly enough to lose.

[LVTwinsfan]

I would love to see a team learn to play “beat the shift” starting from spring training. Tom Kelly would have been great at such a strategy

[Brock Beauchamp]

7 minutes ago, LVTwinsfan said:

Ironically small ball is much more exciting than home runs/strikeouts. 

Oh, without a doubt, but small ball isn't going to come back, at least not the way we remember it because small ball is often pretty dumb from a run-scoring perspective.

[Brock Beauchamp]

8 minutes ago, Cap'n Piranha said:

But banning the shift won't fix this.  If teams currently value pulled fly balls over easy singles hit against the shift, why would they all of the sudden switch that opinion when the easy single goes away, AND there are fewer defenders on the pull side?  If the real issue here is that baseball doesn't value putting the ball in play, but instead wants to play the Three True Outcomes game, the only way to stop that is to make it more valuable for teams to hit singles and doubles.

On this we agree, except for the part about the shift.

Banning the shift is not a silver bullet and under no circumstances am I under that delusion. It's a small move that makes the game slightly better to watch, in my opinion. But the "real" change needs to come on a grander scale and that's reducing pitcher advantage while encouraging batter contact. And that's going to be a complicated dance for MLB to peform.

[Squirrel]

White Sox announcer on the Gordon attempted steal: Yup, got him on the buttocks (saying that like Forest Gump)

[LVTwinsfan]

4 minutes ago, Brock Beauchamp said:

Oh, without a doubt, but small ball isn't going to come back, at least not the way we remember it because small ball is often pretty dumb from a run-scoring perspective.

I think if you focused on beating the shift for the first three innings you could gain an advantage. If you’re successful at it the shift would have to be severely adjusted. Players need to know how to bunt though, that would be key. Maybe they could get some tips from NL pitchers