Trades from Previous Seasons

[prouster]

Here’s a space to debate old trades, since a large number of threads have been re-hashing this very debate, on topic or not.

[Craig Arko]

Good luck.

[drock2190]

Meh. As long as the Twins aren't trading Tatis Jr. to the Padres for James Shields or Glasnow (STUD) and Meadows for Chris Archer, I'm not really complaining.

[jkcarew]

Sending Dave Hollins to the Mariners in 1996 for David Arias is a trade I’d make again.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Can we unload Chuck Knobloch again? That was awesome.

 

Also, for those of us who have taken to denigrating the rule 5, let us remember both Joe Nathan and Johan Santana.

[Mr. Brooks]

Can we unload Chuck Knobloch again? That was awesome.

 

Also, for those of us who have taken to denigrating the rule 5, let us remember both Joe Nathan and Johan Santana.

Joe Nathan and Johan Santana were both acquired via trade, though Santana did carry rule V protection requirements.

[Danchat]

 

Meh. As long as the Twins aren't trading Tatis Jr. to the Padres for James Shields or Glasnow (STUD) and Meadows for Chris Archer, I'm not really complaining.

Yeah, Archer has looked more like a #4 starter in the NL since that trade. There was a lot of talk about Archer being an ace here, but he would have been a big disappointment so far. And thank the Lord we didn't land Yu Darvish!

 

It seems like plucking a guy who's playing well out of Tampa is going to lead to regression. I'd like to see the Twins be like the Astros with the Verlander and Pressly trades - acquire guys and get them to improve back to their prime (Verlander) or unlock their hidden potential (Pressly). I know Verlander was still good before the trade, but he's been a true ace since the Astros acquired him.

[h2oface]

I hate trades of above average MLB players for prospects. I can't think of one that has benefited the Twins more than the player they traded did. Can you? And I don't mean rule 5 or something like that, or prospects for prospects. Or MLB players for MLB players. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I hate trades of above average MLB players for prospects. I can't think of one that has benefited the Twins more than the player they traded did. Can you? And I don't mean rule 5 or something like that, or prospects for prospects. Or MLB players for MLB players. 

 

The AJ trade most certainly did. Liriano and Bonser were prospects, and Nathan wasn't exactly an established major leaguer at the time.

[Joe A. Preusser]

Joe Nathan and Johan Santana were both acquired via trade, though Santana did carry rule V protection requirements.

Oh yeah, Nathan we got in the Pierzynsky trade. Another guy I wouldn't kind having on the team again so we could trade him.

[bird]

Didn't you guys just HATE it when they traded Bernie Allen and Camillo Pascual to the Senators for effing Ron Kiline?!?!

[Cap'n Piranha]

The Liriano for Escobar (and Pedro Hernandez) trade worked out pretty well, particularly if any of the guys we got back for Esco do anything.

[Mr. Brooks]

The Liriano for Escobar (and Pedro Hernandez) trade worked out pretty well, particularly if any of the guys we got back for Esco do anything.

Granted there was no guarantee that we'd have kept Liriano for as long as we had Escobar, but they have identical bWAR since the trade (8.4 vs 8.5).

[lecroy24fan]

Shannon Stewart for Bobby Kielty worked out well.

[bird]

Fairly judging trades is such a complex exercise much of the time. Not only do the results as measured imprecisely by things like bWAR take a long time, but factoring in things like salary outlays and control are tough. Also, we forget to account for the entire trade tree quite often, and those trees can produce for a long time on occasion.

 

We traded Viola for Tapani, David West, and a few prospects that quickly petered out. I couldn't tell you who won that trade off the top of my head, but I'd want to follow the trail on any returns we got later, add up the cumulative WAR, offset it against the salary numbers, and adjust for contractual and liquidity factors.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Fairly judging trades is such a complex exercise much of the time. Not only do the results as measured imprecisely by things like bWAR take a long time, but factoring in things like salary outlays and control are tough. Also, we forget to account for the entire trade tree quite often, and those trees can produce for a long time on occasion.

 

We traded Viola for Tapani, David West, and a few prospects that quickly petered out. I couldn't tell you who won that trade off the top of my head, but I'd want to follow the trail on any returns we got later, add up the cumulative WAR, offset it against the salary numbers, and adjust for contractual and liquidity factors.

I think sometimes the "trade tree" is overrated over time. Sure, the Twins got Ron Coomer for Kevin Tapani (and Mark Guthrie) 6 years after the Viola deal -- but absent the Viola deal, we probably would have acquired other players and made other trades, and wound up with Coomer or comparable players anyway. Barring exceptional circumstances, I don't think future deals beyond a few years should matter all that much in judging a trade.

 

In any case, I'd say the Twins won this one. Viola was signed through 1991, and was very good in 1990, but we were well behind Oakland, and in 1991 Viola wasn't as sharp and we signed Morris for similar money anyway, plus had Tapani and Aguilera as key parts of our staff.

[markos]

 

I think sometimes the "trade tree" is overrated over time. Sure, the Twins got Ron Coomer for Kevin Tapani (and Mark Guthrie) 6 years after the Viola deal -- but absent the Viola deal, we probably would have acquired other players and made other trades, and wound up with Coomer or comparable players anyway. Barring exceptional circumstances, I don't think future deals beyond a few years should matter all that much in judging a trade.

 

In any case, I'd say the Twins won this one. Viola was signed through 1991, and was very good in 1990, but we were well behind Oakland, and in 1991 Viola wasn't as sharp and we signed Morris for similar money anyway, plus had Tapani and Aguilera as key parts of our staff.

Regarding the trade tree, it is true that they get way into the weeds of hypotheticals, but it can still be fun to trace them back. For example, the Luis Castillo acquisition is still "paying dividends" for the Twins today.

 

Castillo -> Drew Butera -> Miguel Sulburan -> Eduardo Nunez -> Adalberto Mejia.

 

Does anyone know (or have guesses) for the active player with the oldest Twins "root"? For example, Castillo was acquired by trading Travis Bowyer and Scott Tyler - both Twins draft picks. So Mejia's oldest root would be Bowyer of the 1999 draft class. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Regarding the trade tree, it is true that they get way into the weeds of hypotheticals, but it can still be fun to trace them back. For example, the Luis Castillo acquisition is still "paying dividends" for the Twins today.

 

Castillo -> Drew Butera -> Miguel Sulburan -> Eduardo Nunez -> Adalberto Mejia.

 

Does anyone know (or have guesses) for the active player with the oldest Twins "root"? For example, Castillo was acquired by trading Travis Bowyer and Scott Tyler - both Twins draft picks. So Mejia's oldest root would be Bowyer of the 1999 draft class. 

 

Active Twin... this is fun.

 

Trevor May was acquired from the Revere trade. Berrios was a comp pick for Cuddyer. Most of the other guys on the 25 were FAs or draftees.

 

Mejia (already mentioned) might be the guy unless you're counting current minor leaguers.

 

The guys we got for Escobar can trace all the way back to the AJ trade.  AJ got us Liriano who got us Escobar. If this is what you're asking for, those guys I think win this. 

[bird]

 

Regarding the trade tree, it is true that they get way into the weeds of hypotheticals, but it can still be fun to trace them back. For example, the Luis Castillo acquisition is still "paying dividends" for the Twins today.

 

Castillo -> Drew Butera -> Miguel Sulburan -> Eduardo Nunez -> Adalberto Mejia.

 

Does anyone know (or have guesses) for the active player with the oldest Twins "root"? For example, Castillo was acquired by trading Travis Bowyer and Scott Tyler - both Twins draft picks. So Mejia's oldest root would be Bowyer of the 1999 draft class. 

 

 

Yeah, I agree that trade trees are fun, and that spy's point has validity. But I personally believe trade wins are more important and more essential now than ever before. We've gotten to a point where the rich clubs can't outspend to distance themselves like they used to because of spendong caps, penalties, and pools. Technology has evened the playing field somewhat when it comes to gaining a development edge. Scouts can only make so much of a difference, although I personally believe efficiencies can still be achieved by having better evaluators than the competition. But if you can't gain as much of an edge via draft, IFA, FA spending, and development as was historically the case, having a cogent, well executed asset management and trade strategy can be a differentiator, especially if the sell discipline is tight, allowing for fewer assets to depreciate with no end return.

 

It's why I believe that having a top quartile MLB and MiLB system in the power rankings is so important. You need the Travis Bowyer wins and the Luis Castillo wins year after year to sustain excellence, that's my theory.

[markos]

 

Active Twin... this is fun.

 

Trevor May was acquired from the Revere trade. Berrios was a comp pick for Cuddyer. Most of the other guys on the 25 were FAs or draftees.

 

Mejia (already mentioned) might be the guy unless you're counting current minor leaguers.

 

The guys we got for Escobar can trace all the way back to the AJ trade.  AJ got us Liriano who got us Escobar. If this is what you're asking for, those guys I think win this. 

Yeah, I actually meant to include current minor leaguers. Sometimes I forget that "Active Twin" is a technical term...

 

Yeah, I forgot that Escobar traces from the AJ trade, and he was a 1994 draft pick. I think it will be hard to outdo that.

[Tom Froemming]

Finally, a safe place for me to share my Luis Gil anxiety. 

 

Nothing against Jake Cave, but the last thing the Twins needed was another left-handed hitting outfielder. Gil hadn't even pitched in the states by the time of the trade, so the reaction at the time was basically "eh, whatever." 

 

Well Gil has 103 strikeouts in 68 innings down on the farm with the Yankees to go with a 1.72 ERA. Per MLB Pipeline, who rank Gil has New York's No. 13 prospect, he has a 70-grade fastball that tops out at 101 mph. 

 

Who knows what will become of Gil, but if I could reverse that trade I'd do so in a heartbeat.

[jkcarew]

 

Who knows what will become of Gil, but if I could reverse that trade I'd do so in a heartbeat.

Can I have your word that I wouldn't have heard (read) you _itching last year, even once, about the every-day right fielder, Rex Grossman?

[Tom Froemming]

 

Can I have your word that I wouldn't have heard (read) you _itching last year, even once, about the every-day right fielder, Rex Grossman?

It would have been pretty weird to have the former Bears quarterback playing for the Twins. Quite the butterfly effect of that trade not happening

 

Oh, you must mean current A's center fielder Robbie Grossman. Yeah, I like Robbie, but not having Cave would have also opened up a spot on the 40-man for whatever waiver wire/DFA guy most tickled your fancy too.

[Joe A. Preusser]

It would have been pretty weird to have the former Bears quarterback playing for the Twins. Quite the butterfly effect of that trade not happening

 

Oh, you must mean current A's center fielder Robbie Grossman. Yeah, I like Robbie, but not having Cave would have also opened up a spot on the 40-man for whatever waiver wire/DFA guy most tickled your fancy too.

Isn't Rex Grossman in the Mets minor leagues?

[h2oface]

 

The AJ trade most certainly did. Liriano and Bonser were prospects, and Nathan wasn't exactly an established major leaguer at the time.

 

Yes! That was unique, and I didn't consider that trade because it involved an MLB player, too... Nathan. I would consider a couple years with injury thrown in established. Gomez traded away was trading a young MLB player, for comparison....

[h2oface]

 

Regarding the trade tree, it is true that they get way into the weeds of hypotheticals, but it can still be fun to trace them back. For example, the Luis Castillo acquisition is still "paying dividends" for the Twins today.

 

Castillo -> Drew Butera -> Miguel Sulburan -> Eduardo Nunez -> Adalberto Mejia.

 

Does anyone know (or have guesses) for the active player with the oldest Twins "root"? For example, Castillo was acquired by trading Travis Bowyer and Scott Tyler - both Twins draft picks. So Mejia's oldest root would be Bowyer of the 1999 draft class. 

 

 

All in all..... those are pretty weak dividends. Nunez was an obligatory all-star, but that was pretty much a joke and points to how horrible that team was.

[prouster]

Yes! That was unique, and I didn't consider that trade because it involved an MLB player, too... Nathan. I would consider a couple years with injury thrown in established. Gomez traded away was trading a young MLB player, for comparison....

Someone also mentioned the Knoblauch trade earlier, which yielded some core players for those early 2000s teams. Otherwise...uh...does Sam Fuld for Tommy Milone count?