Week 2: Vikings @ Packers

[TheLeviathan]

 

Why are you running the clock out and settling for a field goal? The kid clearly had no chance, none, zero.
Unacceptable boneheaded decision by Zimmer.

 

I thought the same thing, with two timeouts.....get as much yardage as possible.  The kid has been brutal all day, don't leave it to him.

[Vanimal46]

There was no comfortable FG range on that last drive. Wouldn't trust him with a 25 yard chip shot. They should have went for the TD.

[SF Twins Fan]

Dan Bailey will be in MN by tomorrow.

[Vanimal46]

Doubt it. See Treadwell. Spielman will give him 3 years of chances, no matter how obvious it is that he can't play.

We don't have time to let a kicker figure it out... Kai would have won it twice.

[Mr. Brooks]

There was no comfortable FG range on that last drive. Wouldn't trust him with a 25 yard chip shot. They should have went for the TD.

Same.

And GB had no answer for Cousins/Diggs/Thielen in the second half. I'd put it at better than 50/50 they score a TD if you let them try.

[Mr. Brooks]

We don't have time to let a kicker figure it out... Kai would have won it twice.

We don't.

But Spielman traded up to draft this kid, which was awful decision #1, he's not bailing on him after week 2.

So congrats Spielman on letting 2 stubborn draft picks potentially torpedo an otherwise well assembled roster.

[Vanimal46]

Same.

And GB had no answer for Cousins/Diggs/Thielen in the second half. I'd put it at better than 50/50 they score a TD if you let them try.

Concur. It's disappointing Treadwell can't take any pressure away from Thielen and Diggs. Cousins looked for him and he continues to drop big passes.

[USAFChief]

Awesome game.

 

Why does Treadwell keep getting on the field?

 

Brutal special teams.

 

Cousins really good.

[Craig Arko]

Joe Mauer makes that kick.

[Mike Sixel]

Holy cow that was an exhausting game to be at. And, cut the kicker. So much excitement that second half. Fans were great. Go there if you can

[Doomtints]

Dennis Green fires that kicker by the end of the day.

 

Hard to imagine another outcome.

[TheLeviathan]

This game should kill any talk of "Maybe we should've kept Keenum"  That's the biggest win here.

 

Keeniacs need to pony up, eat their crow, and start celebrating having an elite QB.

[Doomtints]

If the Vikings are going to choke, I'd rather have it be in week 2 than in week 19, 20, or 21.

[USAFChief]

If the Vikings are going to choke, I'd rather have it be in week 2 than in week 19, 20, or 21.

I would not characterize that game as a choke. FAR from it.

 

Wow.

[TheLeviathan]

Yeah, I can't call this a choke by the team.  One element of the team - special teams - choked badly.  The offense was outstanding and the defense came to play the second half.

 

But for special teams this is a comfortable win.

[Doomtints]

 

I would not characterize that game as a choke. FAR from it.

Wow.

 

 I would!

[nicksaviking]

We don't.

But Spielman traded up to draft this kid, which was awful decision #1, he's not bailing on him after week 2.

So congrats Spielman on letting 2 stubborn draft picks potentially torpedo an otherwise well assembled roster.

I don't think Spielman is all that great, but they had no problem eating crow on 4th rounder Willie Beaver two years ago, I think calling him stubborn is only a way to unjustifiably criticize.

 

Can't a bad draft pick just be a bad draft pick without it being personal?

[Badsmerf]

I call him stubborn. There are too many examples of his decisions costing the team games. He puts together a nice roster, but gives guys like Ponder and Treadwell too much rope.... Mostly, I think they are the controversial picks everybody hates, he wants to be smarter than the critics and keeps guys too long.

 

Jury is out on Treadwell. Receivers get paid to catch the ball, and he struggles with that. It might be too early on the kicker, but he has to be on the block now. They need to get a backup plan.

[TheLeviathan]

I have a hard time bashing Spielman in general seeing as how we are the best roster in football top to bottom.  And locked in comfortably for awhile.

 

I will criticize him specifically that the kicker seems to have been a failure.  You can't trust this kid anymore, it sucks, but he has to go.

[USAFChief]

I dont think you bail on the kicker after one bad game.

 

Treadwell, though...its a recurring theme.

[Badsmerf]

They don't have to bail on him, but they do need to look for a backup plan. Give him another shot, and if he can't respond they have to move on.

 

It's a shame about Treadwell. He's actually starting to get open, and get targets sent his way.

[Vanimal46]

They don't have to bail on him, but they do need to look for a backup plan. Give him another shot, and if he can't respond they have to move on.

 

It's a shame about Treadwell. He's actually starting to get open, and get targets sent his way.

He's not running complicated routes, just stuff 3-10 yards downfield. There should be someone else besides Treadwell who can make those receptions consistently.

 

As far as Carlson I am sure they'll bring someone into the facility to work out... If they let him play next week he has to be perfect.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't think Spielman is all that great, but they had no problem eating crow on 4th rounder Willie Beaver two years ago, I think calling him stubborn is only a way to unjustifiably criticize.

 

Can't a bad draft pick just be a bad draft pick without it being personal?

I don't know what else to call Treadwell still being on the field when it's been so obvious for so long that he can't play.

[Mr. Brooks]

I have a hard time bashing Spielman in general seeing as how we are the best roster in football top to bottom. And locked in comfortably for awhile.

 

I will criticize him specifically that the kicker seems to have been a failure. You can't trust this kid anymore, it sucks, but he has to go.

It's too soon to call it the best roster in football until they actually win the one that matters.

[TheLeviathan]

 

It's too soon to call it the best roster in football until they actually win the one that matters.

 

I'm not sure those are the same things.  Teams with the best talent often lose.  I don't think the Eagles were more talented on the field than the Pats or the Vikes last year, they just got on a crazy good roll. 

 

Top to bottom, I don't see any peer for the Vikings in terms of roster talent.  Spielman can be criticized, but we should really pause a second before going too far and seeing what he has managed to do as GM.  It's been overwhelmingly positive for the most part.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Teams with the best talent often lose. I don't think the Eagles were more talented on the field than the Pats or the Vikes last year, they just got on a crazy good roll.

I agree, and by the way I think this is just as true for baseball and NHL.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I agree, and by the way I think this is just as true for baseball and NHL.

 

I'll like this, chuckle to myself, and hope you eventually sober up my friend,

[mngopherguy]

Dan Bailey should at least get a call.  

[Mr. Brooks]

I'm not sure those are the same things. Teams with the best talent often lose. I don't think the Eagles were more talented on the field than the Pats or the Vikes last year, they just got on a crazy good roll.

 

Top to bottom, I don't see any peer for the Vikings in terms of roster talent. Spielman can be criticized, but we should really pause a second before going too far and seeing what he has managed to do as GM. It's been overwhelmingly positive for the most part.

Over time, talent wins out.

Unless you think Brady and Belichick just lucked into all those Super Bowls.

 

The results are the whole point of what these guys do. And comparing some Madden like player rating on paper isn't results.

 

I vehemently reject the idea that Spielman somehow has earned immunity from any all fair criticism, just because he's assembled good players on paper.

 

Until those teams actually win something in the postseason, it's just preliminary.

 

And I'm not criticizing just to criticize. In the season predictions thread, I predicted 15-1, and made bold projections for the QB and defense that Spielman has assembled.

 

But, today highlights exactly why you can't just measure a team on paper, it doesn't work that way.

It's a team game, and in some ways, you're only as good as your weakest link. Treadwell and Carlson are Spielman picks too, he gets credit when they torpedo an otherwise all-star cast that he's assembled.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Over time, talent wins out.
Unless you think Brady and Belichick just lucked into all those Super Bowls.

The results are the whole point of what these guys do. And comparing some Madden like player rating on paper isn't results.

I vehemently reject the idea that Spielman somehow has earned immunity from any all fair criticism, just because he's assembled good players on paper.

Until those teams actually win something in the postseason, it's just preliminary.

And I'm not criticizing just to criticize. In the season predictions thread, I predicted 15-1, and made bold projections for the QB and defense that Spielman has assembled.

But, today highlights exactly why you can't just measure a team on paper, it doesn't work that way.
It's a team game, and in some ways, you're only as good as your weakest link. Treadwell and Carlson are Spielman picks too, he gets credit when they torpedo an otherwise all-star cast that he's assembled.

 

No one gave him immunity.  You said he torpedoed the team based on one game and two players.  I wouldn't call that criticism fair at all.  It's basically the exact opposite of that.  

 

I don't think the Patriots have been the most talented team many seasons, they are just expertly coached and have an all-time great at the most important position on the field.  Hell, I think their best team actually lost in the Super Bowl to a significantly inferior team.  My point there was that citing a Super Bowl win as the only measure for his work as a GM is also a rather unfair criticism.

 

As of now his Daniel Carlson decision had a major impact on a game already this season.  I think it's very fair to call him out for using a 5th round pick on a kicker and not being a sure thing.  He also drafted Stephon Diggs with a 5th round pick.  When things go wrong, he gets 100% of the blame.  When they go right he gets about 5% and the players and coaches get 95%.  After the Miracle I don't recall a lot of "Way to go Spielman!" remarks.  

 

If you'd like I can detail all the badass moves he's made as GM.  I guarantee you it far outweighs the two you are unfairly hyperbolizing right now.  If they weren't, we wouldn't be Super Bowl contenders.  My only point is not to get too far down the hyperbole path criticizing him, the roster is still really freaking good.  And he should get a ton of credit for that and it should temper the criticism at least a bit.