Article: We Are All Witnesses, Right?

[jimmer]

 

'btw, Mauer has a negative defensive bWAR for those that think his pressence helps the defense. The metrics disagree.'

 

Well, that's true, as far as it goes. -0.4 dWAR.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/mauerjo01.shtml

Yeah, the only part of the quote that is true is he has a negative bWAR. And it needs to be put in context with other 1Bs.Anyone have the list of 1B dWAR for 2018 so we can compare 1Bs? Are there any 1Bs with a positive dWAR?

 

The highest dWAR is like 3.4 with Matt Chapman. Lindor is like 2.2. Paul Goldy has a -.03.  Machado is like -1.4.

 

I know the DEF stat at Fangraphs, which compares defense of all players to each other (as opposed to their own position) ALL 1Bs are negative.  Admittedly, I'm not someone who even likes oWAR, dWAR or bWAR from B-REF. I think Fangraphs does it better.

Edited August 26, 2018 by jimmer

[yarnivek1972]

You are entitled to your opinion.

[jimmer]

 

You are entitled to your opinion.

As are you. It's a friendly discussion, nothing more. Our discussion won't have any effect of whether they sign him or not.  And, personally, I'm fine either way.  Part of me wants him to retire so he doesn't get another concussion and so the constant slamming of him slows down. The other part of me wants him to be signed to annoy those who do it 

 

If the Twins actually get a better option, that would be ideal.  I doubt they will.

Edited August 26, 2018 by jimmer

[twinfan]

Joe has been a fine player for us. He was great early in his career and is good today. Unless he is blocking someone from playing up here, he should be brought back for another year or two IF he wants to play. Personally, I hope he stays with the Twins or goes to the Yankees if he stays in baseball.

[AlwaysinModeration]

Joe has been a fine player for us. He was great early in his career and is good today. Unless he is blocking someone from playing up here, he should be brought back for another year or two IF he wants to play. Personally, I hope he stays with the Twins or goes to the Yankees if he stays in baseball.

I was totally with you until that very last part, and then you lost a lot of credibility.

Edited August 26, 2018 by AlwaysinModeration

[Otto von Ballpark]

He isn't at first base at least twice a week.

Well, my post said "out of the lineup" not off of first base.

 

You are correct that he is spending time at DH too, although that doesn't appear to be causing a short bench situation either.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Perhaps Mauer is frequently not playing 1B because he has an established history of getting hurt/tired if he is out in the field too often. I don't think it's fair to lay that at anyone's feet other than Mauer. (And even that, some of it, is out of his control too)

Sure, but is that causing a short bench, which has been the claim in this thread? Even if Mauer was an iron man starting at 1B, we'd still need someone like Morrison or Austin to start at DH.

 

If we were an NL team, Mauer not starting often enough at 1B would be more of a problem for roster construction. For an AL team, I am not sure it matters all that much.

Edited August 26, 2018 by spycake

[Mr. Brooks]

Well, my post said "out of the lineup" not off of first base.

 

You are correct that he is spending time at DH too, although that doesn't appear to be causing a short bench situation either.

I think the point is the much of the defense of his value revolves around his defense at first base- which is meaningless when he's playing DH.

[USAFChief]

I think the point is the much of the defense of his value revolves around his defense at first base- which is meaningless when he's playing DH.

And in the days of 12 and 13 man pitching staffs, by definition a part time, one position player causes an even shorter bench, with impact elsewhere.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Sure, but is that causing a short bench, which has been the claim in this thread? Even if Mauer was an iron man starting at 1B, we'd still need someone like Morrison or Austin to start at DH.

If we were an NL team, Mauer not starting often enough at 1B would be more of a problem for roster construction. For an AL team, I am not sure it matters all that much.

 

No, but I wasn't commenting on that notion.  I was just pointing out that if people are valuing his defense (rightly) it's also fair to point out that he isn't an iron-man on the field.  Over the last few years the team has been forced to DH him more in order to avoid injury and fatigue.  It's not Molitor's fault or the team's fault - it's on Mauer's body that he isn't out there more.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This thread? So are you telling me that people don't always talk about Joe's lack of home run power at 1B? Or is that something I just made up? Bottom line is he is one of the best 25 guys on the team. When that changes then the argument changes. As long as he is one of the best 25 it will be up to Joe when he is done, when he isn't one of the best 25 then it won't be up to him anymore.

 

no one is saying 25 HRs.....but single digits, with not many doubles anymore, and an inability to play in the field even half the games matters......

 

I'm still not sure I get the "25 best on the roster" thing......he is a DH and part time 1B. 

 

I'd rather have Garver at 1B, and Kepler, and Sano, and Austin and Rooker. That combination allows them to have options they don't have now, and also very likely results in much better hitting. It isn't just power, or just walks, or just singles, or just doubles.....it is all those combined. And, all those combined, he's not as good as any of the players listed above, other than Rooker, who has a chance to be as good or better going forward.

 

Mauer was a great player. He no longer is. It is possible that if he played 120 games at first his defense would matter, but since he doesn't even play 81, there just isn't enough accumulation of extra outs to make up for what he does on offense compared to other options.

 

[jimmer]

 

no one is saying 25 HRs.....but single digits, with not many doubles anymore, and an inability to play in the field even half the games matters......

 

I'm still not sure I get the "25 best on the roster" thing......he is a DH and part time 1B. 

 

I'd rather have Garver at 1B, and Kepler, and Sano, and Austin and Rooker. That combination allows them to have options they don't have now, and also very likely results in much better hitting. It isn't just power, or just walks, or just singles, or just doubles.....it is all those combined. And, all those combined, he's not as good as any of the players listed above, other than Rooker, who has a chance to be as good or better going forward.

 

Mauer was a great player. He no longer is. It is possible that if he played 120 games at first his defense would matter, but since he doesn't even play 81, there just isn't enough accumulation of extra outs to make up for what he does on offense compared to other options.

Wait, are you saying Mauer isn't as good of a 1B as Austin or Garver? I can see where moving Sano to 1B makes sense (assuming we can get a ood 3B) And I can see where moving Kepler to 1B makes sense (if we can figure out our OF).

 

But Austin and Garver?  Based on what?

Edited August 26, 2018 by jimmer

[Mike Sixel]

 

Wait, are you saying Mauer isn't as good of a 1B as Austin or Garver? I can see where moving Sano to 1B makes sense (assuming we can get a ood 3B) And I can see where moving Kepler to 1B makes sense (if we can figure out our OF).

 

But Austin and Garver?  Based on what?

 

Well, hitting and fielding and base running, going forward......and position flexibility, not just DH and infrequent 1B.

[jimmer]

 

Well, hitting and fielding and base running, going forward......and position flexibility, not just DH and infrequent 1B.

ok

[SwainZag]

 

Well, hitting and fielding and base running, going forward......and position flexibility, not just DH and infrequent 1B.

 

Kepler and Garver have played a combined 2 innings outside of the regular positions of OF and C this season.  I understand having emergency positional flexibility is nice to have, but let's not act these guys can just jump around and play wherever. 

 

You made the comment, "I'd rather have Garver at 1B, and Kepler, and Sano, and Austin and Rooker."

 

You can have all of that.  Garver starting at C, Kepler in RF, Sano at 3rd, Austin at DH.  You still have room for a above average 1B who has the on base skills to lead off.  All that leaves is Rooker is 23 and still striking out 30% of the time in AA, why are we rushing him?

[USAFChief]

 

Kepler and Garver have played a combined 2 innings outside of the regular positions of OF and C this season.  I understand having emergency positional flexibility is nice to have, but let's not act these guys can just jump around and play wherever. 

 

You made the comment, "I'd rather have Garver at 1B, and Kepler, and Sano, and Austin and Rooker."

 

You can have all of that.  Garver starting at C, Kepler in RF, Sano at 3rd, Austin at DH.  You still have room for a above average 1B who has the on base skills to lead off.  All that leaves is Rooker is 23 and still striking out 30% of the time in AA, why are we rushing him?

Concur. Who'd we trade for? 

[SwainZag]

 

Concur. Who'd we trade for? 

 

I meant above average fielding* who has on base skills to lead off, but the point is moot at this point.