La Velle E. Neal: The Geek Was Right All Along

[East Coast Twin]

 

Gibson, 5-7 with a 3.42 ERA, is arbitration-eligible after the season and is a candidate to receive a multiyear contract offer.

http://www.startribune.com/twins-dozier-lynn-and-duke-on-trading-block-as-deadline-nears/489458211/

[diehardtwinsfan]

I think my big take away was that Escobar didn't really want to sign an extension. I hope that we still end up being the high bidders for his services.

[Dman]

 

I think my big take away was that Escobar didn't really want to sign an extension. I hope that we still end up being the high bidders for his services.

 

It makes sense that he didn't want to sign as this is his one big chance to make big money.  I too hope we end up with him but am also hoping we don't have to overpay for his services either.

[amjgt]

It makes sense that he didn't want to sign as this is his one big chance to make big money. I too hope we end up with him but am also hoping we don't have to overpay for his services either.

I wish him success in AZ, but not so much that resigning him becomes unreasonable.

 

It’s completely reasonable for him to expect a Cozart-like contract (3/38). And I’d be good with that.

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

It makes sense that he didn't want to sign as this is his one big chance to make big money.  I too hope we end up with him but am also hoping we don't have to overpay for his services either.

The team will be well under it's cap the next few years, especially with Mauer off the books. I'm perfectly fine overpaying for 3 years of Esco. Yeah, I know it's not my money, but I don't think the market appropriately values a guy like him with a good bat and passable defense at many positions.

[Dman]

 

The team will be well under it's cap the next few years, especially with Mauer off the books. I'm perfectly fine overpaying for 3 years of Esco. Yeah, I know it's not my money, but I don't think the market appropriately values a guy like him with a good bat and passable defense at many positions.

 

After the deadline I don't think Esco's value is a secret.  Arizona sure valued him as they ponied up some pretty decent prospects for a rental.  IMO he is a Ben Zobrist type player and he was a highly valued player.

 

If the Twins wanted to, they could have over payed for the extension but they didn't, so I think they are concerned about over paying as well. 

 

No question we all love the guy and want him back but I am just hoping the value is right as they are other signings that can make this team stronger and there never seems to be enough money to fill all the teams needs.

[KirbyDome89]

 

The team will be well under it's cap the next few years, especially with Mauer off the books. I'm perfectly fine overpaying for 3 years of Esco. Yeah, I know it's not my money, but I don't think the market appropriately values a guy like him with a good bat and passable defense at many positions.

If the Twins are going to slash payroll, and lets be honest, they almost certainly are, then I would much rather see that extra $$ go towards bringing back Escobar rather than disappearing into ownership's pocket.

[amjgt]

 

If the Twins are going to slash payroll, and lets be honest, they almost certainly are, then I would much rather see that extra $$ go towards bringing back Escobar rather than disappearing into ownership's pocket.

 

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

[Ben Noble]

Maybe it's optimism, but reading between the lines in the linked report makes it sound to me like the front office thinks the team can/will be competitive next year.

[KirbyDome89]

 

Do you have any evidence to support this claim?

Go look at the $$ committed for next season and tell me if it's likely the Twins spend enough in FA to even match the payroll from this year....

[Mike Sixel]

 

Go look at the $$ committed for next season and tell me if it's likely the Twins spend enough in FA to even match the payroll from this year....

 

I'm not even sure they could if they tried, short of signing Harper or Machado.

[amjgt]

 

Go look at the $$ committed for next season and tell me if it's likely the Twins spend enough in FA to even match the payroll from this year....

 

I'm aware of the payroll situation. 

 

I suppose it depends on your definition of "slash"

 

If the Twins spend freely, address their glaring needs, and come with $10M of this year's payroll, I'm sure there will be people complaining about "slashing" payroll, but I will not be one of them. 

[KirbyDome89]

 

I'm aware of the payroll situation. 

 

I suppose it depends on your definition of "slash"

 

If the Twins spend freely, address their glaring needs, and come with $10M of this year's payroll, I'm sure there will be people complaining about "slashing" payroll, but I will not be one of them. 

They need to spend roughly $70 million to hit your ten under mark. Are you that confident this organization will do that, or even come close? They certainly don't have to match spending to be better next season, but realistically it's extremely unlikely that they even come close, barring some massive FA signing, i.e. Machado. 

 

They sold a high draft pick to save $$ for this season and next; people should be complaining if payroll is dramatically reduced. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

They need to spend roughly $70 million to hit your ten under mark. Are you that confident this organization will do that, or even come close? They certainly don't have to match spending to be better next season, but realistically it's extremely unlikely that they even come close, barring some massive FA signing, i.e. Machado. 

 

They sold a high draft pick to save $$ for this season and next; people should be complaining if payroll is dramatically reduced. 

 

that last sentence! They sold a draft pick to cut payroll next year.....in a year they can't possibly spend what they spent this year. Sigh.

[howieramone2]

The board was screaming to DFA Hughes. Miraculously they were able to package Hughes and a second round pick, and in return received a catching prospect and hoodwinked the Padres into picking up 7.25M of Hughes outstanding salary obligation. An unnamed GM referred to this as an insane move by the Padres. 

 

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

The board was screaming to DFA Hughes. Miraculously they were able to package Hughes and a second round pick, and in return received a catching prospect and hoodwinked the Padres into picking up 7.25M of Hughes outstanding salary obligation. An unnamed GM referred to this as an insane trade by the Padres.

 

and plenty others said it was a good trade for SD.

 

They literally weakened the system, to save 7MM next year, in a year they can't possibly spend as much as they did this year. It was a money move, plain and simple.

[Danchat]

and plenty others said it was a good trade for SD.

 

They literally weakened the system, to save 7MM next year, in a year they can't possibly spend as much as they did this year. It was a money move, plain and simple.

The Twins also acquired a minor league catcher in the deal... how does that weaken the system?

[Richie the Rally Goat]

They sold a high draft pick to save $$ for this season and next; people should be complaining if payroll is dramatically reduced.

The FO traded away Hughes and used a draft pick as leverage, was that signing bonus going to be even a million?

 

They traded away Pressly who made 1.6 mil this year. Arb for him would have been less than 3 mil.

 

Falvine can scrape together 4 mil from the couch cushions.

 

Hughes trade was about the money for Hughes, but was relatively payroll neutral.

 

I’m certain these moves have been about acquiring talent or assets for the future.

 

It would awesome to see the FO extend Gibson 3 years and resign Escobar.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

The Twins also acquired a minor league catcher in the deal... how does that weaken the system?

That catcher is 21 years old and repeating rookie league ball for the 3rd straight season. No guarantees, but the draft pick would probably have been better for the farm system.

 

Not that I necessarily minded the trade, although it does put payroll in the spotlight a bit.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Hughes trade was about the money for Hughes, but was relatively payroll neutral.

I’m certain these moves have been about acquiring talent or assets for the future.

The Hughes trade saved us $7 mil on 2019 payroll, that's not a lot but I wouldn't call it "neutral" for the organization. And so far the trade doesn't seem to have had anything to do with acquiring talent or assets, the catcher is 21 years old and still in rookie leagues.

[nicksaviking]

 

Go look at the $$ committed for next season and tell me if it's likely the Twins spend enough in FA to even match the payroll from this year....

 

That's due to the nature of the makeup of the team. The Twins couldn't match 2018's payroll if they signed both Machado and Harper. This wasn't some directive by the owner, we've seen this inevitable payroll drop coming for about four years now.

[Brandon]

 

The Hughes trade saved us $7 mil on 2019 payroll, that's not a lot but I wouldn't call it "neutral" for the organization. And so far the trade doesn't seem to have had anything to do with acquiring talent or assets, the catcher is 21 years old and still in rookie leagues.

 

The Twins got a savings of 7.25 million or pretty close to the value of 1 WAR.  is that pick that they gave up worth 1 WAR?  I think that pick is worth close to that  I don't know for sure.  Then what do the Twins do with that savings and how do they reinvest it?  but i feel like that was a fair trade provided that was a 1 time thing to move a bad contract and clear a roster space and not a common thing moving forward.

[nicksaviking]

 

The board was screaming to DFA Hughes. Miraculously they were able to package Hughes and a second round pick, and in return received a catching prospect and hoodwinked the Padres into picking up 7.25M of Hughes outstanding salary obligation. An unnamed GM referred to this as an insane move by the Padres. 

 

Right, it was financial insanity but it was spent to improve the team. At least the Padres had their priorities straight. We all celebrated last year when the Twins ate all of Jaime Garcia's salary, so kudos to that, but let's not pretend that they didn't do the exact opposite this year.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The Twins got a savings of 7.25 million or pretty close to the value of 1 WAR.  is that pick that they gave up worth 1 WAR?  I think that pick is worth close to that  I don't know for sure.  Then what do the Twins do with that savings and how do they reinvest it?  but i feel like that was a fair trade provided that was a 1 time thing to move a bad contract and clear a roster space and not a common thing moving forward.

 

It might have been fair, but if they don't spend that money, it is a net loss (unless people think a 21 yo catcher repeating rookie ball for the third year is an actual prospect.....)

[amjgt]

 

They need to spend roughly $70 million to hit your ten under mark. Are you that confident this organization will do that, or even come close? They certainly don't have to match spending to be better next season, but realistically it's extremely unlikely that they even come close, barring some massive FA signing, i.e. Machado. 

 

They sold a high draft pick to save $$ for this season and next; people should be complaining if payroll is dramatically reduced. 

 

I guess I just tend to save my criticism until after something actually occurs rather then speculating what will occur and complaining about that speculated result. 

 

Then you've doubled down on that speculation by saying since they can't possibly spend all their money next year, that saving $7M was a bad thing.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I guess I just tend to save my criticism until after something actually occurs rather then speculating what will occur and complaining about that speculated result. 

 

Then you've doubled down on that speculation by saying since they can't possibly spend all their money next year, that saving $7M was a bad thing.

 

Has any team ever spent 70MM in one off season, let alone a team with a 130MM payroll? That's more than half the payroll! 

[Tomj14]

 

Has any team ever spent 70MM in one off season, let alone a team with a 130MM payroll? That's more than half the payroll! 

They could sign Kimbrel, Donaldson, McCutchen and Escobar or Dozier,

Not saying they should, but they could.

Those probably could be had for 2- 4 years deals until the current players are ready for a raise or the prospects are ready.

[amjgt]

Or they could sign players to extensions. Or they could trade for guys from teams that are looking to cut payroll.

 

$70M isn't THAT hard to spend.

 

And I'm not going to criticize them BEFORE they don't spend it. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Or they could sign players to extensions. Or they could trade for guys from teams that are looking to cut payroll.

 

$70M isn't THAT hard to spend.

 

And I'm not going to criticize them BEFORE they don't spend it. 

 

That's fair.

 

Of their players, I might extend 2......Rosario and Gibson, but I'd probably just wait on Gibson and QO him next year (or extend him next year). I'm not even sure there is another option. 

[yarnivek1972]

Has any team ever spent 70MM in one off season, let alone a team with a 130MM payroll? That's more than half the payroll!

Didn’t the Yankees sign Sabathia and Mark Teixiera in a single offseason? That would take the equivilent of $70 mil in today’s salary world.