Dear Derek Falvey...Two things happened last night.

[Riverbrian]

Two things happened last night that I’d like Derek Falvey, Thad Lavine, Paul Molitor and the rest of the front office advisory council to strongly consider.

First, Eddie Rosario was forced to play 3rd Base, a position, to my knowledge, he has never played before in the big leagues and he made an amazing play while doing so.

 

Second, Mike Moustakas was traded to the Brewers to play 3rd base, which caused the Brewers to announce shortly afterwards that Travis Shaw was moving to 2nd base, a position, to my knowledge, he has never played before in the big leagues.

 

Now, before I get started… I want to make it clear that I fully understand that Rosario making one play doesn’t mean that he can play the position long term and I also want to make it clear that I realize that Travis Shaw hasn’t played 2nd base yet and the results of his abrupt shift to 2nd base during a playoff chase has yet to reveal itself.

 

With that said… I believe that we can clearly see representations of new school thinking and old school thinking in today’s roster management and we are reaching the point where enough information is out there to start concluding that old school thinking might be wrong.

 

I couldn’t decide if I should post this in the “Other Baseball” Forum or the “Minnesota Twins Talk” forum but I’m going to focus on the Twins and more people read the Twins talk forum and I want the discussion. 

 

The Cubs, The Dodgers, The Brewers, The Astros, the Rangers have all embraced the idea of position flexibility and two of them have won the last two World Series titles and four of them are in contention in 2018 and the other team, the Rangers have had some pretty nice years prior to this year. Point being, it hasn’t hurt them. Out of fairness, I will also put the Cardinals into this group and also acknowledge that position flexibility may have been something that has hurt them. I still wonder if they failed to be sensible in the approach by being consistently sub-par defensively at a key position like SS, or if they tried to force it by acquiring a bunch of sub-par defensive players like Gyorko or failing to acquiring elite defenders outside of Molina at all.

Please don’t mistake my thoughts for willy nilly just play em anywhere sentiment. If a player is elite defensively at a position… leave him there. If you have Buxton… he should play CF period. If you have Arenado… he should play 3B… period. Simmons should be SS only… Period. However, in my opinion, there are a large chunk of great athletes who are merely average defensive players that have the skill set to switch positions or play multiple positions at the same average level. I suppose there will always be degrees of better and worse but are we costing us bigger matchup offensive advantages by weighting what could be slight defensive improvements of average heavier?

 

Admittedly, most teams lock in with dedicated positions with maybe one utility guy in the old school mentality and I understand the benefit of getting an everyday feel for a position however, I can’t help but take a look at the Cubs and Dodgers and think: Is the benefit of getting an everyday feel for a position bigger than the benefit of being able to move players around so you can get the best players into your lineup on a daily bases, according to match-ups, hot play or whatever? 

 

This all brings me to the Twins, obviously not practitioners of the new school practices that I am talking about. They are in the other much larger group of teams that don’t. When I look back at the recent history of Twins position switches, I end up with more questions than answers and I start to question the Twins ability to assess. Here are some examples off the top of my head.

 

Eddie Rosario – Played 2B in the minors, he was moved to the OF so maybe he struggled at 2B or maybe he was blocked by Brian Dozier so they tried OF to get Rosario to the majors quicker. Either way, he has done well in the OF but isn’t elite out there so I’m wondering if old school thinking has prevented Rosario from being someone who can play a little OF or 2B on occasion or 3B if he isn’t good at turning the double play or something. Again… I’m not reacting to last night one play sample size. Has there ever been a time when you had 4 outfielders that you couldn't wedge into 3 outfield spots and a hole in the infield? 

 

Brian Dozier – Came up as a SS, struggled a little and was reinvented as a 2B. We had trouble trading him last year because he is 2B only and there wasn’t a lot of need for 2B across baseball. We may be having trouble trading him at this deadline because we are running out of teams looking for a 2B and that is the only position he plays. I think Dozier is a fantastic 2nd basemen but he isn’t the 2B version of Byron Buxton and I can’t help but wonder what his trade value would be if could also play a little LF or 3B in addition to open up more trading partners. Was 2B the only position that he could have possible shifted to at the time or was it the position that was open at the time and he was just left there because he did fine. Yeah, I know… his arm is gonna stop those ideas. His arm is not that weak and that is how you talk yourself into locking them down at one position and making sure his arm restricts his value. 

 

Sano to RF – I was all for it, I’m all for position flexibility so of course I was all for it… Until I saw it. He wasn’t the right guy to try this and it left me wondering why they didn’t know this before they tried it. The Twins forced the move because they signed a DH in Byung Ho Park while Trevor Plouffe and Joe Mauer were at 3B and 1B and neither of those guys were considered for position flexibility of any kind to accommodate the presence of Sano. No matter how bad it looked out there… the Twins stuck with the idea and did not deviate until… Plouffe got hurt. Then they ended the experiment because they had some place else to put Sano. This isn’t proof that you shouldn’t try it, it is an example of an organization that assessed badly in the beginning, kept doubling down on it stubbornly before admitting defeat. This isn’t the fault of the idea of position flexibility, it is the fault of the assessors and then used against the idea of position flexibility. 

 

Trevor Plouffe – He came up through the minor league system as a SS. Played his first games with the Twins as a SS. I consider SS a key position that requires the range to play SS which Trevor didn’t have. Why was Plouffe allowed to come up through the system as a SS. On the other hand, if he did have the enough athleticism to stick at SS throughout the minors, why couldn’t he have the athleticism to play 3B, 2B or OF? Why did the position switch have to happen at the major league level? I got a lot of questions about Plouffe that make me question the ability of those making assessments.

 

Jorge Polanco – He played 2B in the minors and the team was hesitant to play him at SS in the majors and it almost stopped them from finally giving him a chance. A couple of years later… he is still our everyday SS and even with a supposed better defensive SS option in Adrianaza on the same team, it is Adrianaza that moves to 3B or other positions if they are both in the lineup. Is he still miscast for the position, maybe but he’s done alright and this leads me to two more questions. Was the assessment that caused fear over Polanco at SS a sensible assessment? What is wrong with setting up for the future Polanco position switch by moving him to another position now instead of Adrianaza doing all the moving? Adrianaza is supposedly a better defensive SS so we have already compromised ability for what…  consistency?

 

Josh Willingham and Ben Revere – I remember it being reported that Josh Willingham wasn’t comfortable playing RF therefore the weaker armed Revere played RF. It’s not that I was against Revere in RF and I know that the ball spins different but this was pretty ridiculous in light of what is being done today.

 

 

Returning back to the new school: Let’s look at the Dodgers.
Bellinger 1B and CF and RF
Muncy 1B and 3B and 2B and LF
Forsythe 2B and 3B
Taylor SS and CF and LF and 2B
Machado SS and 3B
Kemp LF and RF
Pederson LF and CF
Hernandez CF and 2B and SS and LF and RF and 3B
Grandal C and 1B
Barnes – C and 2B

 

 

Dear Falvey, Lavine and Molitor,
Are the Dodgers seeking these players or developing them? Has it hurt them or helped them? Can the Twins join the club in baby steps or one large leap? Why shouldn't they? 

 

 

I think it is an important discussion. 

[glunn]

Great analysis, RB. I hope that this gets addressed.

[Han Joelo]

Nice OP.  Interestingly enough, I'm starting work this fall teaching a group of first graders (in fact, going to meet them here shortly).  And I will be staying with them as their teacher through the 5th grade.  Now setting aside whether or not that is a good idea from their end, I think it is great from my side.  I'll get to know them--and watch them grow--really well.  Plus, it puts to rest that oft asked question posed to elementary education majors about "what grade to you want to teach?"  I just want to teach, and in actuality, learning new curriculum will keep me engaged and on my toes.  Not everybody wants to do this, or is cut out for it, but I look forward to it.

 

Similarly, a lot of baseball athletes just want to play baseball, and are fully capable of positional flexibility.  A guy like Rosario might just rise to the occasion in moments like last night, simply because of the novelty, and the added boost he gets to his mojo, because, hey--they must think I'm a badass.  And he proves them right!  And it was fun, for all involved.

 

I've started beating this drum as well.  Okay, maybe I made one post about it recently.  But it IS fun and interesting to watch.  Or, since I didn't have the game on tv--I rushed to the game thread when I realized somebody unusual was going to have to play 3rd base after Mauer pinch-swung.

 

I really wonder how Rosario might fair as an occasional LOOGY.

 

Anyway, that's all I've got.

[Badsmerf]

Completely agree with developing position flexibility. It is tough to do once a player is already in the majors. I'd throw Tampa Bay in with that group on being successful with flexible players.

[glunn]

When I coached little league many years ago, I was the pitching coach.  I bought a videotape of Nolan Ryan teaching kids to pitch.  At practice I asked for volunteers, and all 12 players wanted to learn to pitch.  By the end of the season we had a bullpen of 11 players, and every player got to pitch in a game.

[diehardtwinsfan]

even more important given the 8 and 9 man bull pens that teams are carrying right now. That's a short bench, so having someone who can play a few rules is huge. That's a big reason why I want Escobar back next season.

 

It's also a big reason why I'm not a fan of having Mauer back. If he was playing some 3rd and RF, he's much more valuable, no matter how good he is defensively at 1st.

[Riverbrian]

 

Completely agree with developing position flexibility. It is tough to do once a player is already in the majors. I'd throw Tampa Bay in with that group on being successful with flexible players.

 

Totally agree on Tampa being in the group. I can't believe I forgot to include them because, I believe they were the originators of the group. 

 

Friedman and Maddon started slowly with Zobrist and Sean Rodriquez in Tampa. Epstein saw this and got Maddon over to the Cubs and now Maddon has taken it to another level.  Friedman and Roberts are probably at the point where they have even out-distanced Maddon. Meanwhile the Rays have continued this approach. Bauers plays 1B and OF, Robertson is all over the infield, Wendle will bounce around. Keirmeier plays CF... Period because he is elite. Cron plays DH or 1B because he is not.

 

Maddon isn't crazy... Rizzo only plays 1B and Almora seems to only play CF and Russell is the SS when he is in the lineup but Baez, Zobrist, Happ and Bryant will move around. Maddon decided that Schwarber will play OF just to get his bat in the lineup and he survived it. 

 

The next club to join the club will be Washington. There was no reason to go from Old School Baker to New School Martinez unless this is where they want to go. Martinez was Maddon's right hand man. Unfortunately, Martinez didn't get a chance to do much because they had extreme injuries issues that made it impossible. I look for Washington to retool for flexibility if they don't fire Martinez for missing the playoffs. 

 

On your point of it's tough to do once they hit the majors... I agree but... it's when all the positions switches seem to happen. 

[Riverbrian]

 

even more important given the 8 and 9 man bull pens that teams are carrying right now. That's a short bench, so having someone who can play a few rules is huge. That's a big reason why I want Escobar back next season.

 

It's also a big reason why I'm not a fan of having Mauer back. If he was playing some 3rd and RF, he's much more valuable, no matter how good he is defensively at 1st.

 

Absolutely... it's also the reason I want Escobar back.

 

Don't get me wrong... I love Dozier and would love to have him back but right now I don't trust Molitor. If Dozier comes back he will play every day regardless if he hits .200 for two months. It's sad that I'm at the point that I'd rather the temptation be removed. 

[Blake]

 

Nice OP.  Interestingly enough, I'm starting work this fall teaching a group of first graders (in fact, going to meet them here shortly).  And I will be staying with them as their teacher through the 5th grade.  Now setting aside whether or not that is a good idea from their end, I think it is great from my side.  I'll get to know them--and watch them grow--really well.  Plus, it puts to rest that oft asked question posed to elementary education majors about "what grade to you want to teach?"  I just want to teach, and in actuality, learning new curriculum will keep me engaged and on my toes.  Not everybody wants to do this, or is cut out for it, but I look forward to it.

 

Similarly, a lot of baseball athletes just want to play baseball, and are fully capable of positional flexibility.  A guy like Rosario might just rise to the occasion in moments like last night, simply because of the novelty, and the added boost he gets to his mojo, because, hey--they must think I'm a badass.  And he proves them right!  And it was fun, for all involved.

 

I've started beating this drum as well.  Okay, maybe I made one post about it recently.  But it IS fun and interesting to watch.  Or, since I didn't have the game on tv--I rushed to the game thread when I realized somebody unusual was going to have to play 3rd base after Mauer pinch-swung.

 

I really wonder how Rosario might fair as an occasional LOOGY.

 

Anyway, that's all I've got.

I think that's great that you're going to kids from first to fifth grade. I think it will give a much better idea of the strengths and weaknesses of your students and probably give you a better idea of how to approach these kids as individuals and as students.

[Richie the Rally Goat]

 

even more important given the 8 and 9 man bull pens that teams are carrying right now. That's a short bench, so having someone who can play a few rules is huge. That's a big reason why I want Escobar back next season.

 

It's also a big reason why I'm not a fan of having Mauer back. If he was playing some 3rd and RF, he's much more valuable, no matter how good he is defensively at 1st.

instead of being a bench player or starter, the goal would be to rotate everyone thru the bench and DH to get regular rest over a long season

[olerud]

excellent article 100% agreed!

[Blake]

 

Totally agree on Tampa being in the group. I can't believe I forgot to include them because, I believe they were the originators of the group. 

 

Friedman and Maddon started slowly with Zobrist and Sean Rodriquez in Tampa. Epstein saw this and got Maddon over to the Cubs and now Maddon has taken it to another level.  Friedman and Roberts are probably at the point where they have even out-distanced Maddon. Meanwhile the Rays have continued this approach. Bauers plays 1B and OF, Robertson is all over the infield, Wendle will bounce around. Keirmeier plays CF... Period because he is elite. Cron plays DH or 1B because he is not.

 

Maddon isn't crazy... Rizzo only plays 1B and Almora seems to only play CF and Russell is the SS when he is in the lineup but Baez, Zobrist, Happ and Bryant will move around. Maddon decided that Schwarber will play OF just to get his bat in the lineup and he survived it. 

 

The next club to join the club will be Washington. There was no reason to go from Old School Baker to New School Martinez unless this is where they want to go. Martinez was Maddon's right hand man. Unfortunately, Martinez didn't get a chance to do much because they had extreme injuries issues that made it impossible. I look for Washington to retool for flexibility if they don't fire Martinez for missing the playoffs. 

 

On your point of it's tough to do once they hit the majors... I agree but... it's when all the positions switches seem to happen. 

Lack of positional flexibility is probably why the DH is slowly dying. I give Molitor credit for using the DH spot to keep people in the lineup while giving them a day off from playing in the field. 

[Riverbrian]

I agree with the overall point. 

 

But in my opinion, Molitor only started using Garver or others in the DH spot.

 

While we were struggling it was Morrison and Mauer almost exclusively. 

[mickeymental]

molitor spent significant time at every position but p and c (50 games in the of, 57 at ss, 197 at 1b, 400 at 2b, 791 at 3b, 1174 at dh).

[Brandon]

I agree with the overall point.

 

But in my opinion, Molitor only started using Garver or others in the DH spot.

 

While we were struggling it was Morrison and Mauer almost exclusively.

The DH was supposed to be a rotation till Morrison fell into our laps. Thats not on Molitor. Morrison is awful on defense.

[Blake]

 

I agree with the overall point. 

 

But in my opinion, Molitor only started using Garver or others in the DH spot.

 

While we were struggling it was Morrison and Mauer almost exclusively. 

Good point.

[Brandon]

Also the defense thing is less important now cause K rates are so high. So with this generation of players defense is less important. Last generation defense was more important. Thus both old and new schools of thinking are correct. The benefit goes to those who figured out the new school of thinking after the K rate went up. I remember Yankee teams of early 2000s built on offense loosing games or a Baltimore team leading the league in HRs and middle of the pack in runs.....

[Riverbrian]

 

The DH was supposed to be a rotation till Morrison fell into our laps. Thats not on Molitor. Morrison is awful on defense.

 

Who knows because Morrison did fall into our laps... It might have been Vargas instead but regardless... Molitor kept playing Morrison. 

[Riverbrian]

 

molitor spent significant time at every position but p and c (50 games in the of, 57 at ss, 197 at 1b, 400 at 2b, 791 at 3b, 1174 at dh).

 

Awesome info. 

[yarnivek1972]

I don’t know if I would call Tampa originators of flexibility.

 

Tony Phillps decades ago played 2b and lf and I think somewhere else but played everyday. David Segui in his younger days in Baltimore typically started games in RF but ended them at 1b in place of someone (Sam Horn comes to my mind, but not positive). This happened in the late 80s, early 90s. Back when more than 10 pitchers was rare.

[Riverbrian]

 

Also the defense thing is less important now cause K rates are so high. So with this generation of players defense is less important. Last generation defense was more important. Thus both old and new schools of thinking are correct. The benefit goes to those who figured out the new school of thinking after the K rate went up. I remember Yankee teams of early 2000s built on offense loosing games or a Baltimore team leading the league in HRs and middle of the pack in runs.....

 

This is a great point. 

 

Back in the 80's there was a ton more bunting and the slap hitter was much more prevalent. Today it's a launch angle K or Dinger mentality. 

[Riverbrian]

 

I don’t know if I would call Tampa originators of flexibility.

Tony Phillps decades ago played 2b and lf and I think somewhere else but played everyday. David Segui in his younger days in Baltimore typically started games in RF but ended them at 1b in place of someone (Sam Horn comes to my mind, but not positive). This happened in the late 80s, early 90s. Back when more than 10 pitchers was rare.

 

I'm sure there were exceptions to the rule before but in my opinion the shift started with Maddon. 

 

I could be wrong. 

[jorgenswest]

I agree with the overall point. 

 

But in my opinion, Molitor only started using Garver or others in the DH spot.

 

While we were struggling it was Morrison and Mauer almost exclusively.

 

Nine Twins have played DH. Mauer and Morrison have a 50% share. Grossman, Sano, Rosario and Garver have most of the other 50%.

[Riverbrian]

 

Nine Twins have played DH. Mauer and Morrison have a 50% share. Grossman, Sano, Rosario and Garver have most of the other 50%.

 

Mauer and Morrison have both been on the D.L. which causes adjustment. When both Mauer and Morrison were healthy and Morrison was hitting horribly. It was pretty much the Mauer and Morrison show. 

 

 

[Blake]

 

This is a great point. 

 

Back in the 80's there was a ton more bunting and the slap hitter was much more prevalent. Today it's a launch angle K or Dinger mentality. 

Baseball will adjust I think. Right now it seems me that the upper-cut swing has made players vulnerable to the high fastball, increasing K rates. (Kyle Gibson says "Thank you!") I think the level swing and putting the ball in play will make a return to counter the high fastball. Along with slapping the ball to the opposite field to beat the shift. 

[Blake]

Yes, I know we're venturing afield from the original post, but, it's interesting, at least to me, to witness and discuss the evolution of baseball during our lifetime.

[Riverbrian]

 

Baseball will adjust I think. Right now it seems me that the upper-cut swing has made players vulnerable to the high fastball, increasing K rates. (Kyle Gibson says "Thank you!") I think the level swing and putting the ball in play will make a return to counter the high fastball. Along with slapping the ball to the opposite field to beat the shift. 

 

I agree, we have already reached the point where a Chris Carter type is so common that Chris Carter can't find work and this will come back around to realizing that the D.J. Lemehieu type might be worth something. 

[Badsmerf]

I'm sure there were exceptions to the rule before but in my opinion the shift started with Maddon.

 

I could be wrong.

Maddon was the first to prove it can be a lethal tactic. That is why I brought them up. Those TB teams were built on solid pitching and a dynamic and creative lineup. IMO, there is a reason Zobrist has been on so many successful teams.

 

I do agree much of moving players around happens at the MLB instead of MiLB. However, I do think players move around in the minors, at least in the twins they used to. In fact, before Tampa had success, I distinctly remember a bunch of people criticizing the twins for doing this.. i.e. them wanting to make everyone a utility inf. It used to be a point of emphasis for Tom Kelly to learn more than 1 position. I'm no TK fan, but this philosophy really took a dive when Gardy took over... except little Nicky Punto.

[notoriousgod71]

 

Absolutely... it's also the reason I want Escobar back.

 

Don't get me wrong... I love Dozier and would love to have him back but right now I don't trust Molitor. If Dozier comes back he will play every day regardless if he hits .200 for two months. It's sad that I'm at the point that I'd rather the temptation be removed. 

 

I want Escobar back as well, but it's a lot easier to just extend him or resign him when he is a current member of your team.

 

Now that he's gone, I doubt there's much of a chance he comes back.

[Platoon]

I would like to know exactly how much "input" a manager such as Molitor allows a veteran player such as Dozier or Mauer to impact his moves. Something tells me way too much. Does Mauer refuse to play third, or RF? Natural spots for him it seems. And I am not sure Dozier could find any other spot but 2nd base on a baseball field he has been so entrenched there. Last night I would have really thought Mauer should have moved to third, it's simply another corner position. And it would have kept Morrison at 1B, and Rosario in LF. All optimum positions in this switch. This doesn't mean I am against Rosario in the IF, but less disruption is still better. I also would have long looked for a chance for Rosario to play RF with that arm, when RG was in that outfield with his non arm. When you get down to the present Twins roster, there is some flexibility available on a given day, but either Molitor doesn't have the imagination to consider it, or the cajones to advance it. I simply never get the impression that Paul Molitor is in charge of the Twins dugout. But I do get the impression that the veterans have way to much say in things and that makes change slow.