Morrison activated, Astudillo optioned

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I've always believed true catchers don't move around and play other positions in the minors. So it was clear to me he wasn't viewed as a catcher, even though that's what it says on his baseball reference page.

 

I'm not mad about how he was handled or the fact he never started a game at catcher for the Twins.

I’m more frustrated by not getting his bat in the lineup. Those contact skills are killer!

 

There’s nothing wrong with having a super-ute who can catch a game on a doubleheader or once a month just to spell your start/backup combo.

[Platoon]

There was absolutely no reason that Astudillo did not get more time. He could play several positions, he could catch, he had the cajones to take the ball and pitch an inning, and he put the ball in play. He wasnt EE or even Nick Punto, but there have been a lot worse run through this roster this year.

[Riverbrian]

 

I've always believed true catchers don't move around and play other positions in the minors. So it was clear to me he wasn't viewed as a catcher, even though that's what it says on his baseball reference page.

I'm not mad about how he was handled or the fact he never started a game at catcher for the Twins.

 

I have no idea what kind of skill Astundillo has behind the plate. It is quite possible that he was a step below even Garver... who knows. Based on the willingness to try him... I can only assume that he must be lacking or assume that the Twins have no ability to assess. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt even if my pile of benefit to give is starting to wane. 

 

However... you have brought up something that needs to change and will change slowly but surely. 

 

For the longest time baseball didn't believe that a guy can hit and pitch. Shohei Ohtani had to be developed in Japan before it was attempted here because if he came up through our system he would have been forced to do one or the other.

 

I do not believe for a second that Ohtani is the only guy in the world in decades and decades of baseball who had the ability to do both. Ohtani was the guy who was finally given the chance to show he could do it.

 

Now that he is here, a few forward thinking organizations like the Rays will give players like McKay a chance to do it and once those teams do alright with the concept and they will, less forward thinking clubs like the Twins (my opinion) will eventually join in behind the curve and our grand kids will be laughing at us because we believed that a player could only do one or other. 

 

Same thing goes for catcher (or any positions)... I am strongly opposed to any thought that a catcher can only catch especially if they can hit. Players getting experience at multi-positions opens up more paths to the majors. If Catcher is blocked, it's OK because the player also has experience at 3B. Austin Barnes played both catcher and 2B in the minors with the Marlins and Austin Barnes was the guy that Roberts went with in the world series over Grandal. Is Barnes really the only guy capable of these sort of shenanigans... is Barnes really that special?

 

It was just a few years ago that Gardenhire had to have 3 catchers on the roster in case two of them collide into each other and get knocked out of the game. 

 

Yes, these types of players are rare today... but that is because we choose to make them rare with some traditional viewpoint that they can only master one position.

 

How many players have to switch positions successfully before people stop thinking of them as oddities or guys with unique ability. 

 

Andrew Friedman and Joe Maddon were the guys who thought this was unnecessarily limiting and bottleneckish. Maddon is still doing it successfully in Chicago and Andrew Friedman is doing it successfully in LA and they are still the overwhelming minority to the Buck Showalter type majority who still think this type of thing should never be done.    

[Riverbrian]

 

There was absolutely no reason that Astudillo did not get more time. He could play several positions, he could catch, he had the cajones to take the ball and pitch an inning, and he put the ball in play. He wasnt EE or even Nick Punto, but there have been a lot worse run through this roster this year.

 

We had 11 players who were hitting better? 

 

That's all I got.    

[Platoon]

We had 11 players who were hitting better? 

 

That's all I got.    

. "We had 1 players who were hitting better?" >>>>. You must have flinched on the '1' key, FTFY

[mikelink45]

I guess what we missed was that Astudillo was actually called up to be a relief pitcher and we sent him down after his poor performance.  That tricky old FO really has a new age approach to baseball - sneak in a pudgy little catcher who can't catch, play him in CF, 3B and then when we really need him, put him on the mound!

Wait to see what we do with Taylor Motter and his monster bat.  What advance stats will be unleashed with him?  Can't wait.  Of course it could be that he was called up so we can flip him to a contending team at the deadline so they can fill a splintered bench.

 

Astudillo should never have come up.  Don't we have someone better than these two?  Isn't there something better than Belisle?  Is Magill on a once a week limit?  

 

Who are the young guys that everyone wants Molitor to play?  And when did the FO bring them up?  Grossman, Wilson or Garver, Motter Morrison is our bench.  I cannot see the young guys.  

 

How did Hicks go to Detroit when our MLB/MiLB catchers are so poor?  Hicks is batting 268, 9 HR, 0.3 WAR.   For that matter how did Goodrum go to Detroit and leave us with an Astudillo?  Goodrum has a 0.9WAR.  

 

[ChrisKnutson]

I could see the Rockies taking a chance on Morrison, because you know.... “Coors Field Effect.” Also, I’m pretty sure their fans are tired of seeing Desmond’s athleticism wasted at 1st.

 

At this point, I wouldn’t mind a bucket of balls.

[laloesch]

 

I would prefer keeping Astudillo and playing him to show his worth, rather than either Morrison or Motter.

And speaking of the front office, I wonder now how they like signing Lynn and Odorizzi. Based on their performances, I'd make a case for not having signed them at all and instead running a bunch of the rooks in and out, who hardly could pitch any worse. Is six innings too much to ask?.

 

Well at least Lynn is on a one year deal (thank goodness) and Odorizzi can be non-tendered at the end of 2018 if the front office feels that the best decision, he's Arb 3.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I could see the Rockies taking a chance on Morrison, because you know.... “Coors Field Effect.” Also, I’m pretty sure their fans are tired of seeing Desmond’s athleticism wasted at 1st.

At this point, I wouldn’t mind a bucket of balls.

Might have to send cash with Morrison to get that bucket of balls. And it might have to wait until August after teams have exhausted all other options.

 

FWIW, the Rockies would have to bench some pretty significant players/salary to actually play Morrison. Not sure he's terribly attractive as a bench player either.

[LaBombo]

 

 

I got the .193 [batting average of D "H" Logan Morrison] confused with [35 year old journeyman] Bobby Wilson's .176 because they are right next to each other in the low batting average side of things.

 

 

Ladies and gentlemen... your 2018 Twins!

 

 

 

 

[WLFINN]

 

I think they played him at multiple positions in AAA to see if he could be a valuable UTL/3rd Catcher at the MLB level. The fact that he didn't catch at all with the Twins just to see if he could be a 3rd Catcher that could actually play behind the plate is a mystery. Why Taylor Motter is on the Twins roster (and why he was on the Mariners' roster earlier this year) is the biggest mystery of all. 

beside that beautiful hair what does Motter have that isn't redundant with Petit....he at least seemed competent with the bat

[jorgenswest]

i think they decided that he was not capable of even playing once or twice a week at catcher in the major leagues. That decision caused the need for catching depth in AAA and they signed Rupp. Now I think they signed Juan Graterol and Jordan Pacheco for Rochester.

 

The Twins are desperate for catching. If they thought he was a viable catcher in the majors there is no way they stop playing him at catcher in AAA.

[h2oface]

 

Probably the same reason he hadn’t played one inning of catcher in AAA in the 4 weeks prior to his first game in the majors.

 

Ahhhhhhhh. So play him at the positions that are secondary, at best, instead, at the highest level. Makes complete sense to me. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

i think they decided that he was not capable of even playing once or twice a week at catcher in the major leagues. That decision caused the need for catching depth in AAA and they signed Rupp. Now I think they signed Juan Graterol and Jordan Pacheco for Rochester.

The Twins are desperate for catching. If they thought he was a viable catcher in the majors there is no way they stop playing him at catcher in AAA.

 

Although they immediately played him in CF and even started him at 2B. They don't have to think he has a viable future at a position to give him a game or even just a few innings at it. Personally, like Sconnie said upthread, I was more interested in it as a means of seeing his bat more -- I like good contact hitters.

[Platoon]

Although they immediately played him in CF and even started him at 2B. They don't have to think he has a viable future at a position to give him a game or even just a few innings at it. Personally, like Sconnie said upthread, I was more interested in it as a means of seeing his bat more -- I like good contact hitters.

IIRC the game at second had EE at third? Senseless, since EE had played second and Astudillo had played third and MOY switched them. Always put your guys in a place to succeed?

[jkcarew]

 

For the longest time baseball didn't believe that a guy can hit and pitch. Shohei Ohtani had to be developed in Japan before it was attempted here because if he came up through our system he would have been forced to do one or the other.

 

I do not believe for a second that Ohtani is the only guy in the world in decades and decades of baseball who had the ability to do both. Ohtani was the guy who was finally given the chance to show he could do it.

 

Now that he is here, a few forward thinking organizations like the Rays will give players like McKay a chance to do it and once those teams do alright with the concept and they will, less forward thinking clubs like the Twins (my opinion) will eventually join in behind the curve and our grand kids will be laughing at us because we believed that a player could only do one or other. 

 

Same thing goes for catcher (or any positions)... I am strongly opposed to any thought that a catcher can only catch especially if they can hit. Players getting experience at multi-positions opens up more paths to the majors. If Catcher is blocked, it's OK because the player also has experience at 3B. Austin Barnes played both catcher and 2B in the minors with the Marlins and Austin Barnes was the guy that Roberts went with in the world series over Grandal. Is Barnes really the only guy capable of these sort of shenanigans... is Barnes really that special?

 

It was just a few years ago that Gardenhire had to have 3 catchers on the roster in case two of them collide into each other and get knocked out of the game. 

 

Yes, these types of players are rare today... but that is because we choose to make them rare with some traditional viewpoint that they can only master one position.

 

How many players have to switch positions successfully before people stop thinking of them as oddities or guys with unique ability. 

 

Andrew Friedman and Joe Maddon were the guys who thought this was unnecessarily limiting and bottleneckish. Maddon is still doing it successfully in Chicago and Andrew Friedman is doing it successfully in LA and they are still the overwhelming minority to the Buck Showalter type majority who still think this type of thing should never be done.    

I think your argument against specialization is admirable.  The trend...across sports...is more not less specialization and earlier and earlier.  I think the chance for you to get your wish...and for the Friedman's of the world to be right with regard to MLB...will play out...and will have a lot to do with what baseball does with rosters in the future.  (Hint:  bigger is not better.)

 

Having said that, I put catcher it's own category.   Think of it this way...on a typical 18-man HS or Legion team, there will be many (at least several) pitchers that are still hitting.  Conversely, 12-14 of those kids will be kids that haven't put on catcher's gear since T-ball.  And you'll have maybe 2 that are developing catchers.  Meanwhile, it's the most important defensive position in the game.  So, when you find a truly good defensive catcher that is going to be able to hit major league pitching, you simply arern't going to waste minor league development time with him in left field.  You can always find a left-fielder that can hit...those HS and Legion teams of full of them.  The math is the math.  IMO, the exceptions will continue to be rare....until such time as there is a coordinated effort to develop amateurs differently.

[jorgenswest]

Ahhhhhhhh. So play him at the positions that are secondary, at best, instead, at the highest level. Makes complete sense to me.

 

I hope we have an organization that is capable of assessing whether a player is capable of playing a key defensive position before arriving in the majors. Catcher is the most critical defensive position followed by shortstop and catcher.

 

I no longer want to see guys like Pinto and Plouffe arrive in the majors at a key defensive position where it is so clear that they are not capable. I want that assessment complete before they arrive. I would much prefer having to trust that assessment than have to see Pinto at catcher with my own eyes.

 

I assume they are at least intrigued by Astudillo’s bat. They watched at catcher for two months and then moved him to 3B and LF. I don’t know if they were incorrect in their assessment but I absolutely expect that they will be making these kinds of assessments before players arrive at this level.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I no longer want to see guys like Pinto and Plouffe arrive in the majors at a key defensive position where it is so clear that they are not capable. I want that assessment complete before they arrive. I would much prefer having to trust that assessment than have to see Pinto at catcher with my own eyes.

If they are actually utility players with interesting bats, who cares? Nobody is saying Astudillo has to be our future full-time catcher, but if he can go back there and not embarrass himself every once in a while when needed, maybe it informs our decision about what kind of pinch-hitting we can leverage, what kind of backup to carry, what kind of guy to pair with Castro next year, what kind of complementary utility guy would be best, etc.

 

Plus no-look pickup throws. Those are awesome.

 

In any case, Plouffe didn't play SS in MLB except as a emergency measure replacing Nishioka. (Talk about scouting failures.) He was pretty much a utility guy from day 1 in the majors, and he even received some reps at 2B/3B in the minors, although I understand why you'd want to stick with SS as long as you could. Pinto obviously was not a utility guy, he had no other purpose than catcher, so it's quite a bit different than taking a peek at Astudillo behind the plate as the lineup/roster allows.

[Otto von Ballpark]

If Astudillo isn't even an option as an *emergency* catcher in MLB when Bobby Wilson gets heat stroke, then I don't even know why we added him to the roster at all. As interesting as his bat looks, I can't see him being much of an asset as a 3B/DH "utility" type.

[Riverbrian]

 

I think your argument against specialization is admirable.  The trend...across sports...is more not less specialization and earlier and earlier.  I think the chance for you to get your wish...and for the Friedman's of the world to be right with regard to MLB...will play out...and will have a lot to do with what baseball does with rosters in the future.  (Hint:  bigger is not better.)

 

Having said that, I put catcher it's own category.   Think of it this way...on a typical 18-man HS or Legion team, there will be many (at least several) pitchers that are still hitting.  Conversely, 12-14 of those kids will be kids that haven't put on catcher's gear since T-ball.  And you'll have maybe 2 that are developing catchers.  Meanwhile, it's the most important defensive position in the game.  So, when you find a truly good defensive catcher that is going to be able to hit major league pitching, you simply arern't going to waste minor league development time with him in left field.  You can always find a left-fielder that can hit...those HS and Legion teams of full of them.  The math is the math.  IMO, the exceptions will continue to be rare....until such time as there is a coordinated effort to develop amateurs differently.

 

This is an excellent post and I don't disagree with you at all.  

 

Agreed, catcher is the one defensive position that requires a higher degree of specialization. That is why we find so many weak hitting catchers still alive in the majors. They tend to need a defense first mentality however, the ones who can hit (Donaldson, Posey, Mauer) are getting moved eventually to get their bats in the lineup more frequently. 

 

I'm thinking they might as well get a jump start on that in the minors with the above average hit tool guys to open as many doors as possible for them (Francisco Mejia).

 

You have to recognize (and I'm sure you do) that precedence already has been set by many college coaches across the country. Players like Josh Donaldson played both third and catcher at Auburn and was drafted as a catcher before the A's just made him full time 3B or Austin Barnes who handled both catcher and 2nd Base in the minors and continues to do that. 

 

Bottom Line: I believe we shouldn't look at Barnes or Donaldson as unique due to some sort of rare ability but unique in the sense of opportunity granted. 

 

Great post!!! 

[Richie the Rally Goat]

I think your argument against specialization is admirable. The trend...across sports...is more not less specialization and earlier and earlier. I think the chance for you to get your wish...and for the Friedman's of the world to be right with regard to MLB...will play out...and will have a lot to do with what baseball does with rosters in the future. (Hint: bigger is not better.)

 

Having said that, I put catcher it's own category. Think of it this way...on a typical 18-man HS or Legion team, there will be many (at least several) pitchers that are still hitting. Conversely, 12-14 of those kids will be kids that haven't put on catcher's gear since T-ball. And you'll have maybe 2 that are developing catchers. Meanwhile, it's the most important defensive position in the game. So, when you find a truly good defensive catcher that is going to be able to hit major league pitching, you simply arern't going to waste minor league development time with him in left field. You can always find a left-fielder that can hit...those HS and Legion teams of full of them. The math is the math. IMO, the exceptions will continue to be rare....until such time as there is a coordinated effort to develop amateurs differently.

the current trend in MLB is greater specialization with pitchers. Until Rosters expand from 25, that specialization of pitching requires decreased specialization of the bench, especially in the AL. When Mitch Garver is a top 6 hitter on your team, it would be great to use that bat in a pinch and still have a catcher for an emergency. Gardy and his dang 3 catchers killed the utility of his bench. A guy like Astudillo could have fit that need really well.

 

Alternatively Astudillo has tantalizing contact skills. The same kind of skills that made Rosario such a tantalizing prospect. He’s no slouch and the offense sucks, get your hits where you can, and C has been a black hole with Wilson.

[Doctor Wu]

At this point, I'm only hoping/dreaming that Morrison goes on a tear this coming week and some team, any team, decides he's finally in a groove and worth trading for before the month is over. Yeah, I'm dreaming but what else is there to do?