How Do You Solve The Catching Problem?

[Mike Sixel]

And he'd never played 2nd before, I think.....I really don't get the plan here.

[Parker Hageman]

This is a good thread on the subject of valuing catchers from Driveline's Kyle Boddy and pitcher Brandon McCarthy.

 

[Mike Sixel]

 

Mike, I think it is partly sentiment, but the FO will resign Mauer if he still wants to play.

They will retire his jersey when he is done, but I think that only Joe will say when he is done.

 

Fair, we just come from a different place on that....but fair.

[Mike Sixel]

 

This is a good thread on the subject of valuing catchers from Driveline's Kyle Boddy and pitcher Brandon McCarthy.

 

 

making Garver look more valuable, imo......given results....but who knows? Not us.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

 

making Garver look more valuable, imo......given results....but who knows? Not us.

True, I think he calls a good game, but I think pitchers are just getting tired of all the balls he's whiffing on or not blocking. 

 

Maybe he can improve on that aspect of it. Hope so. I think the more Garver plays this season, the more fatigued he becomes and the worse his catching gets, but it might be good training for next season if he does keep catching a lot. Just guessing. 

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

Should add: Here's the projected list of free agent catchers, via Cots Contracts.

 

FA Cs.PNG

 

And here is the custom leaderboard of those options [Link].

That list seems incomplete. Flowers, Suzuki, Lucroy... here is what MLBTR shows:

 

Drew Butera (35)

Robinson Chirinos (35) — $2.375MM club option with a $100K buyout

A.J. Ellis (38)

Tyler Flowers (33)

Yasmani Grandal (30)

Nick Hundley (35)

Jonathan Lucroy (33)

Martin Maldonado (32)

Jeff Mathis (36)

Brian McCann (35) — $15MM club/player option

Devin Mesoraco (31)

Miguel Montero (35)

Wilson Ramos (31)

Rene Rivera (35)

Kurt Suzuki (35)

Matt Wieters (33)

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/12/2018-19-mlb-free-agents.html

[Otto von Ballpark]

The last few posts have convinced me of the answer. We need to sign Ivan Rodriguez. I think he's a free agent.

Why bother looking for a future hall of famer, when we can sign someone already in the hall of fame?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Target a catching prospect in a trade this month. Will Smith from the Dodgers? Someone like that.

 

Smith would be darn near impossible to acquire, I think. FV 50 at Fangraphs, and Grandal is going to be a free agent after the season.

[alarp33]

Smith would be darn near impossible to acquire, I think. FV 50 at Fangraphs, and Grandal is going to be a free agent after the season.

Certainly possible. They do have another catcher in upper minors that is ranked ahead of Smith on some prospect lists. But I know nothing about their pipeline or plans

 

Also I could see them potentially being interested in Escobar and maybe a reliever (Rodney Duke or Presley). Escobar + reliever for Smith?

[Otto von Ballpark]

Certainly possible. They do have another catcher in upper minors that is ranked ahead of Smith on some prospect lists. But I know nothing about their pipeline or plans

Yup, Ruiz. Same FV 50 at Fangraphs. Interestingly, both are in AA this year, and Ruiz is struggling a bit.

 

Even if the Dodgers were open to dealing one of them, the Twins likely have nothing to offer them from our likely trade assets. If they believed in Gibson's turnaround, he might be close, but the Dodgers are still kind of stacked in the SP department.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Also I could see them potentially being interested in Escobar and maybe a reliever (Rodney Duke or Presley). Escobar + reliever for Smith?

Fangraphs also estimated 50 FV hitting prospects as worth $20 mil. Escobar and a reliever is unlikely to provide $20 mil in surplus value the rest of the season.

[Mike Sixel]

Fangraphs also estimated 50 FV hitting prospects as worth $20 mil. Escobar and a reliever is unlikely to provide $20 mil in surplus value the rest of the season.

Gibson.... He's the one to get you a 50, imo.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Gibson.... He's the one to get you a 50, imo.

Perhaps, if a team buys into his inprovement. But the Dodgers are kind of set at SP right now.

[Doomtints]

Twins fans' obsession with catching is a bit cray-cray in my opinion.

 

Every year it's the same discussion. Falvey actually did what the fans clamored for and grabbed the flavor of the month catcher, and it turns out those resources were wasted. Shocking surprise!

 

Just bring up a catcher who can play defense at the plate like he is supposed to and put the money and effort to upgrade/improve somewhere else. The Twins have top defensive catchers in the farm system, and that's what a smart GM wants from his catcher. Hitting is nice but it's not what catching is about. No one even knows what "pitch framing" actually means, either, or what its impact is.

[Mike Sixel]

Twins fans' obsession with catching is a bit cray-cray in my opinion.

 

Every year it's the same discussion. Falvey actually did what the fans clamored for and grabbed the flavor of the month catcher, and it turns out those resources were wasted. Shocking surprise!

 

Just bring up a catcher who can play defense at the plate like he is supposed to and put the money and effort to upgrade/improve somewhere else. The Twins have top defensive catchers in the farm system, and that's what a smart GM wants from his catcher. Hitting is nice but it's not what catching is about. No one even knows what "pitch framing" actually means, either, or what its impact is.

How were they wasted? He was average for a catcher. Who would have been better, in their system? Can't disagree more with this post.

[Sarah]

 

 

 

I read Pat's column and I think he's overblowing it a bit, but his comments on the Wilson Ramos trade are a stark reminder of how bad that trade was. 

 

I'll be at the Twins games tonight and Saturday and will try not to ask my friends "I wonder what Matt Capps is doing now?" whenever Ramos comes up. I mean, it's not like he's an All-Star or anything. 

[snepp]

 

Could he be Drew Butera 2.0?

 

 

Maybe Drew Butera 0.5.

 

 

His minor league hitting line barely surpasses Drew's major league numbers.

[Thrylos]

 

Star Tribune's Patrick Reusse dropped a column today extolling the virtues of a competitive team having a productive catcher in order to find success.

 

He did this through the usual history lesson that starts with decisions made in the mid-20th century beginning with acquiring Earl Battey and continues into the Wilson Ramos trade and Joe Mauer's eventual relocation from behind the plate.

 

If Reusse is not a hypocrite, he is at least a bit senile.  Or something.

 

Because he forgot this, in his "history lesson":

 

.191/.252/.389, 65 OPS+, .278 wOBA, 62 wRC+

 

Tim Laudner's numbers in 1987.

[mikelink45]

Give Garver the rest of the games.  Give him a chance to prove his value.  We have played with him and his value and it has been a lousy way to judge his worth.  Both the Twins and Nationals messed up with Ramos, but that boat has left the dock.  Garver is here and I do not want another team to determine his value.  I truly believe we cannot and will not get Realmuto so lets start some realistic plans.  

[Monkeypaws]

I reject the basis of this argument, Reusse's supposition that pitchers don't want to throw to Garver.

 

 

[Riverbrian]

Ruesse: "Garver is not an adequate receiver. Nobody is expressing it, but it’s obvious the pitchers want to throw to Wilson and not Garver".

 

If Nobody is expressing it how do you know that the pitchers want to throw to Wilson. 

 

If Molitor is playing Wilson instead of Garver because the pitchers want to throw to Wilson. Somebody must be "expressing" that directly to Molitor or "expressing" it to someone who reports to Molitor. But obviously nobody has "expressed" to Reusse before he "expressed" it to us because he can be quoted as saying "Nobody is expressing it". 

 

 

 

[AlwaysinModeration]

I think the premise of the article is correct; the Twins would benefit from a great catcher who can hit and play good D. Not to go down the Mauer rabbit hole again (but I can’t resist—I’d be all for resigning him), but the Twins were very strong as a team when Mauer was at his peak. It was a huge advantage to have your best hitter behind the plate. The difference between Mauer and the rest of the catchers in terms of production was massive. Massive enough that they could get away with carrying mediocre DHs...but I digress.

 

As for solving the problem, Realmuto is clearly a very attractive option. But it would really hurt to get him. Probably Lewis, which I would be opposed to. Kiriloff and Romero would be a strong offer, I think, but painful. I would think hard about that. Kiriloff and Graterol I would do, even though it would hurt.

 

The other option is to trade for Wilson Ramos, and hope Castro is back next year. Kind of seems like this weekend might be an audition.

[ashbury]

Ruesse: "Garver is not an adequate receiver. Nobody is expressing it, but it’s obvious the pitchers want to throw to Wilson and not Garver".

 

If Nobody is expressing it how do you know that the pitchers want to throw to Wilson. 

 

If Molitor is playing Wilson instead of Garver because the pitchers want to throw to Wilson. Somebody must be "expressing" that directly to Molitor or "expressing" it to someone who reports to Molitor. But obviously nobody has "expressed" to Reusse before he "expressed" it to us because he can be quoted as saying "Nobody is expressing it". 

An experienced journalist learns how to deal with unattributed sources. No pitcher wants to see his name in the paper throwing Garver under the bus. If Reusse asks, say, Gibson, "do you prefer throwing to Bobby Wilson," Gibby might smile and say, "look, I'm not going to say that." It's his way of not saying what he's saying - he could answer a different way if he really had no opinion. Although I'm inventing this particular dialog, I presume Reusse got a few of those, and decided it was solid enough to run with. The turn of phrase isn't literal, but gets the meaning across.

[USAFChief]

 

An experienced journalist learns how to deal with unattributed sources. No pitcher wants to see his name in the paper throwing Garver under the bus. If Reusse asks, say, Gibson, "do you prefer throwing to Bobby Wilson," Gibby might smile and say, "look, I'm not going to say that." It's his way of not saying what he's saying - he could answer a different way if he really had no opinion. Although I'm inventing this particular dialog, I presume Reusse got a few of those, and decided it was solid enough to run with. The turn of phrase isn't literal, but gets the meaning across.

Same if Ruesse talked to Molitor, which he undoubtedly has.

 

Molitor isn't going to throw Garver under the bus while "on the record," either.

 

And to my eyes, if I were a pitcher, I'd also much prefer throwing to Wilson, so the whole thing makes sense to me.  

 

 

[jorgenswest]

Is it possible that Bobby Wilson at catcher gives them a greater likelihood of winning in some match ups? If that is the case, shouldn’t Molitor be playing Wilson in those games?

[Squirrel]

If we had Realmuto, this just wouldn’t be an issue. No bus throwing, whether indirectly or not. So, let’s just get Realmuto.

[USAFChief]

 

If we had Realmuto, this just wouldn’t be an issue. No bus throwing, whether indirectly or not. So, let’s just get Realmuto.

A Realmuto/Castro catcher tandem in 2019, with Garver as a third catcher either on the 25 man or in Rochester would be a pretty good situation, IMO.

 

 

[Riverbrian]

 

An experienced journalist learns how to deal with unattributed sources. No pitcher wants to see his name in the paper throwing Garver under the bus. If Reusse asks, say, Gibson, "do you prefer throwing to Bobby Wilson," Gibby might smile and say, "look, I'm not going to say that." It's his way of not saying what he's saying - he could answer a different way if he really had no opinion. Although I'm inventing this particular dialog, I presume Reusse got a few of those, and decided it was solid enough to run with. The turn of phrase isn't literal, but gets the meaning across.

 

Oh I get it... your point was basically my point. I was expressing something without (wink wink) expressing it. 

 

My larger point is gonna be: What a fantastic atmosphere for Mr. Garver with all of this public non-expression. 

[nicksaviking]

Just automate the strike zone already; it would open up many more possibilities for offensively productive guys to catch.

 

When you're down to only a half a dozen or so guys at a position league-wide who are regularly average with the bat, you're not far away from talking about adding a second DH.

[ashbury]

When you're down to only a half a dozen or so guys at a position league-wide who are regularly average with the bat, you're not far away from talking about adding a second DH.

I think we actually are pretty far away. The distance from catchers to pitchers is far larger than the distance from catchers to whoever else is next up. And the DH rule for pitchers was a near thing to get instituted, at that.