Help is on the Way! Twins Sign Matt Belisle!

[Brandon]

I guess this means we are buyers this year.

[KirbyDome89]

Washed up relief arms are the Danny Santana/Nick Punto of this FO. Maybe every FO has "their guys," but I was hoping that trend would end.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Regardless of how permanent this is, why make the move at all? Cleveland is desperate for bullpen help, even signing the rotting corpse of Oliver Perez... He couldn't make Cleveland's roster, but is good enough for us?

 

He was bad for Cleveland but he was pretty decent for the Twins last year and is only two years removed from an elite two-year stint. I wouldn't make any judgements based on 10 2/3 innings from this year. Relievers are a weird bunch: after all, Brian Duensing is still in this league and is a solid setup man for a contender. How many of us would have predicted that?

 

I'm not going to defend it to the death. I just don't think it's bad enough to get worked up about. Maybe they saw something in his delivery that they think they can fix. Maybe they want him as a mentor who slots in at the end of the pen for a month or two. Who knows?

[ThejacKmp]

 

Washed up relief arms are the Danny Santana/Nick Punto of this FO. Maybe every FO has "their guys," but I was hoping that trend would end.

 

At the same time, part of being a GM is working through the retreads to find something useful. Yeah it goes poorly but you get a Jake Arietta sometimes.

 

I'm glad they like relief arms over utility infielders. Nick Punto is probably the upside of reclaimed utility guy. At least relief arms have a chance to become important parts.

 

 

[ThejacKmp]

 

I would take Chris Gimenez as backup C

 

Agreed. Really surprised they didn't give cash to the Cubs for Gimenez when Castro went down. Gimenez understands the staff, would be a great mentor for Garver and isn't useless with the bat in small doses. I can't think the Cubs would stand in the way of a veteran catcher getting a chance to play in the majors, especially in the other league. I get the Cubs wanna keep some depth but Gimenez isn't that good and maybe you get a lottery ticket prospect?

[Otto von Ballpark]

He was bad for Cleveland but he was pretty decent for the Twins last year and is only two years removed from an elite two-year stint.

Elite mop-up work? Belisle's average game-entering leverage index in 2016 was .83, about the same as Tonkin, Boshers, and O'Rourke that year.

[nicksaviking]

 

At the same time, part of being a GM is working through the retreads to find something useful. Yeah it goes poorly but you get a Jake Arietta sometimes.

 

I'm glad they like relief arms over utility infielders. Nick Punto is probably the upside of reclaimed utility guy. At least relief arms have a chance to become important parts.

 

Yeah, but if they're looking for a diamond in the rough it seems more likely it would come from the stable of Busenitz, Curtis, Reed, Bard, Moya or Mejia. Guys who have better velocity, better movement and a decade and a half fewer innings on their arm.

[Danchat]

What? Why? I get that Belisle was Fantastic down the stretch for the twins last season, but he couldn’t even crack the league’s worst bullpen. Busenitz is more than ready, but I guess Molly needs his veteran reliever that he can overuse. I thought we had seen the last of these type of moves...

[ThejacKmp]

 

Elite mop-up work? Belisle's average game-entering leverage index in 2016 was .83, about the same as Tonkin, Boshers, and O'Rourke that year.

 

The numbers are the numbers. The batters don't change when you're a middle-inning guy. Maybe the approach a bit but he had two years where the numbers are really good. And he treaded water in a more serious role with the Twins last year. I can think of weirder things to do with the last bullpen spot for three weeks.

[Otto von Ballpark]

At the same time, part of being a GM is working through the retreads to find something useful. Yeah it goes poorly but you get a Jake Arietta sometimes.

 

Comparing the Belisle signing to the Arrieta trade? Arrieta was just 27, a former top 100 prospect who had only been with 1 organization. Also, he was still a starting pitcher, and he still had an option left.

[nater79a]

 

I guess this means we are buyers this year.

 

At the very least it means they aren't sellers....yet.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Yeah, but if they're looking for a diamond in the rough it seems more likely it would come from the stable of Busenitz, Curtis, Reed, Bard, Moya or Mejia. Guys who have better velocity, better movement and a decade and a half fewer innings on their arm.

 

Maybe they want those guys to get to pitch regularly. Any one of those guys is going to be 5th or 6th guy on the totem pole in MN. There's something to be said for having a guy you're not invested in who is liked in the clubhouse be your last bullpen guy. Terry Mulhullonding it.

[ThejacKmp]

 

Comparing the Belisle signing to the Arrieta trade? Arrieta was just 27, a former top 100 prospect who had only been with 1 organization. Also, he was still a starting pitcher, and he still had an option left.

 

Not comparing the two at all, just giving a best case scenario for dumpster diving.

 

It’s the job of a GM to shift through the rubble for value. Some of that is bringing in starting pitching options, some of it is bringing in the LaMarres and Caves of the world and some of it is bringing in relievers who you think might catch for awhile. Magill has been a great example of the last, albeit in low-leverage situations. Maybe the Twins are about to trust him a bit more and want Belisle for the junk reliever role?

 

And again, I’m not saying this is the greatest move of all time. I’m just saying there’s not really cause to freak out on the Twins taking a chance on a liked veteran over sitting a prospect in the back of the pen where he pitches once a week.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The numbers are the numbers. The batters don't change when you're a middle-inning guy.

Actually, the batters do sometimes change in the late innings in low leverage. Pinch hitting for regulars just to give them a rest, letting pitchers bat for themselves (Belisle was in the NL). And approach definitely changes too.

 

And Belisle didn't even have the peripherals to support those numbers. His FIP wasn't bad but it was basically a full run higher than his ERA those 2 years.

 

He wasn't necessarily bad, but it's a bit of a stretch to call those years "elite" for him. If they were in any way "elite", he wouldn't have been on a 1 year, $2 mil deal with the Twins.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Maybe the Twins are about to trust him a bit more and want Belisle for the junk reliever role?

Why not use a younger pitcher with options for that role, maybe capable of throwing multiple innings too?

[Platoon]

I wonder how permanent this is. Petit hasn't been playing but when Mauer, Polanco and Buxton come back, a pitcher will likely have to go (you can drop LaMarre and Adrianza but after that there's nobody to drop). Will they drop Belisle then or send a young guy down.

 

This is likely a meh move. My level of frustration will depend on whether they use him in a high-leverage situation. I don't mind giving him some up-big or down-big innings to see if he can become an okay piece. But I don't think he will and hope they have a quick hook when the third of Mauer, Polanco and Buxton come back.

I would think that regardless of who the pitchers are the Twins will carry 13 pitchers, and 4 bench guys.

[DocBauer]

Nothing against the guy. He did a nice job for us last season. A couple guys are being over used. But I still disappointed in this move.

[Mike Sixel]

He was bad for Cleveland but he was pretty decent for the Twins last year and is only two years removed from an elite two-year stint. I wouldn't make any judgements based on 10 2/3 innings from this year. Relievers are a weird bunch: after all, Brian Duensing is still in this league and is a solid setup man for a contender. How many of us would have predicted that?

 

I'm not going to defend it to the death. I just don't think it's bad enough to get worked up about. Maybe they saw something in his delivery that they think they can fix. Maybe they want him as a mentor who slots in at the end of the pen for a month or two. Who knows?

Mentor? It's all veterans!

[ThejacKmp]

 

Why not use a younger pitcher with options for that role, maybe capable of throwing multiple innings too?

 

I'd assume because you want to have him pitching regularly in AAA rather than sitting at the end of the bench sopping up innings?

 

Will also be interesting to see if the Twins use Belisle for longer outings when he does come in. They have no reason not to push him.

[Mike Sixel]

Why not use a younger pitcher with options for that role, maybe capable of throwing multiple innings too?

This

[The Wise One]

 

Great news!  Buddy Boshers hopefully next

Houston wants Sano for him.

 

[jun]

Indians batters are all anxious to see Belisle. Batting practice time!

[The Wise One]

 

Comparing the Belisle signing to the Arrieta trade? Arrieta was just 27, a former top 100 prospect who had only been with 1 organization. Also, he was still a starting pitcher, and he still had an option left.

Was his option to pitch the cubs to the World Series versus being sent to Iowa for eternity?  

[nicksaviking]

Was his option to pitch the cubs to the World Series versus being sent to Iowa for eternity?

Well he's certainly old enough. I think that's him there second in from the left.

[Vanimal46]

He was bad for Cleveland but he was pretty decent for the Twins last year and is only two years removed from an elite two-year stint. I wouldn't make any judgements based on 10 2/3 innings from this year. Relievers are a weird bunch: after all, Brian Duensing is still in this league and is a solid setup man for a contender. How many of us would have predicted that?

 

I'm not going to defend it to the death. I just don't think it's bad enough to get worked up about. Maybe they saw something in his delivery that they think they can fix. Maybe they want him as a mentor who slots in at the end of the pen for a month or two. Who knows?

Again, Cleveland is desperate for anyone with a pulse to pitch in their bullpen. Yet Belisle couldn't make that team. And somehow he's going to slot into our bullpen and most likely pitch the 7/8th inning.

 

"This don't make no sense."

[The Wise One]

Neil Allen will fix Belisle in a jiffy.  In a more serious note, the reliever they traded to the Padres has an ERA  under 4. From feast to famine. I would hazard a guess that the better ones of the bullpen will be up when the wily veterans are traded.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'd assume because you want to have him pitching regularly in AAA rather than sitting at the end of the bench sopping up innings?

 

Will also be interesting to see if the Twins use Belisle for longer outings when he does come in. They have no reason not to push him.

No reason in modern MLB to have a reliever go a week between outings, there are plenty of relief innings to around. Especially in the Twins pen, it's not like we have 3-4 shutdown options at the top who need to soak up all the innings.

 

I just don't see the point in investing innings in a guy at this point unless you think he can help you later in the season in a more important role.

[zenser]

Now I have to try and find my Belisle jersey! 

[jud6312]

 

Again, Cleveland is desperate for anyone with a pulse to pitch in their bullpen. Yet Belisle couldn't make that team. And somehow he's going to slot into our bullpen and most likely pitch the 7/8th inning.

"This don't make no sense."

 

[jud6312]

 

Now I have to try and find my Belisle jersey!