17 Position Players

[stringer bell]

While it was much noted that the Twins have used a record number of pitchers this year (35), I believe they will set a team record (at least in Minnesota) of using the fewest position players.

 

This reflects several things, in my opinion. First of all, there aren't many (if any) position players pushing to take major league roles. Secondly, the Twins position players have stayed relatively injury-free. Finally, they added no position players by trade. It's ironic that the same year they use 35 pitchers, they use the fewest number of position players in team history.

[DocBauer]

A very interesting twist to say the least. I think it speaks to a couple things; good overall health by the position players, improvement by said position players, and patience by the Twins to stick with the young players...even through some struggles...to let them learn and develop.

 

I can easily see the Twins investing in a good to very good SO for 2018. I can see investing in a quality RP, possibly 2... (But I wouldn't get crazy considering what's available and what's coming up)...and I understand and appreciate the idea of adding one more really nice bat to the lineup.

 

But if an investment is to be made, isn't the pitching staff the first and second priority? I could EASILY see the Twins staying status quo position wise for 2018.

 

The OF is very good, only going to get better, and could be the best 3-some in all the ML next season.

 

Really, show me some reason not to bring back the same 6 man infield next season.

 

Castro is the primary catcher. With all due respect to experience, leadership, OK production, it's probably time to turn to Garver over Giminez.

 

That leaves 2 bench spots to fill. Grossman isn't great, but he's nice. For most of the season, he hit decently, and his OB has been very good. He also has some power and doesn't run badly. His horrible defense in 2016 has upgraded to OK. One could argue he and Mauer should hit 1-2 most days with Dozier sliding down. Granite is better defensively, has speed only exceeded by Buxton, and understands his role. Vargas is still solid, and there still seems to be some potential there.

 

And let us not forget, the DH spot does not have to be filled by just one guy. Despite the likes of Davis or Thome filling the DH role, the Twins did very well in the TK and Gardenhire eras filling the DH spot with a solid bench player, or a starter getting a half day off.

[amjgt]

Unless we really go for it with a free agent like JD Martinez, I think leaving the lineup as is, would be just fine.

 

Man our lineup would be incredible with Martinez

[USAFChief]

It doesn't have to be JD Martinez--although sign me up for that--but a good RH hitter would really help this team.

[drjim]

It doesn't have to be JD Martinez--although sign me up for that--but a good RH hitter would really help this team.

Agree with this. Sign a vet rh bat, a backup catcher, and maintain position player depth.

 

Then hammer pitching with all other available resources.

[jorgenswest]

Maybe not set but tie 1978 and 1994.

[stringer bell]

You're correct Jorgen. I was going to correct the record this morning. Still, quite a contrast between pitchers and position players.

[PDX Twin]

This article points to how lucky the Twins have been with position-player injuries this season. Until Sano went down in August, they really didn't have anyone miss significant time. How often does that happen? It's surely not likely to happen again next year.

 

Escobar has been amazing as a general fill-in infielder. Adrianza has been surprisingly good and has not embarrassed himself in the outfield when needed. But I don't see a lot of position players at Rochester whom I'd be happy to see come up if someone did get injured. 

 

It's a good lineup but a fragile lineup, and if we were to have 2-3 overlapping two-month injuries next year the drop-off in run production (and defense) could be huge.

[Rosterman]

Was just mulling this over myself. Escobar should be back and shows he can hold his own at third, which frees up Sano to be DH who can also play 1st or 3rd. That's it, the Twins biggest weakness is DH (unless you count catcher and word would have Castro is more valuable as a field man than a batter.

 

Now you talk the Twins really needing a bench. Four guys. A catcher (Garver), a spare outfielder (Granite) and a backup infielder, and A BAT who can give you some punch, but probably also play a position, notably one of the corners or the outfield.

 

Of course, Garver can play OTHER positions, so the Twins could keep the lovefest of Gimenez. Grossman has proven to be an able body bench bat. Ehrin is a capable backup infielder. So, for those three, it becomes an issue of salary, period.

 

The Twins need at least one starter. Should they go all in? Bigger question, do they write off Hughes and basically send him packing (or to the minors) without a 40-man spot, shades of Nick Blackburn. You hope they have some depth in Gonsalves, Romero and Jorge, who will all be 40-manned, as well as Littell. I'm not sure the off-season status of Slegers at this point.

 

The bullpen? Do you keep Belisle? What happens with Perkins? You keep Moya and Curtiss, although both could start at AAA. That leaves you with Rogers and Hildenberger. The others...again, depends on salary and the need for 40-man roster spots.

 

That's going to be a mess. Who do the Twins have to protect that might battle for a spot in spring training, or be a possibility durther into the year. You can't have too many guys who aren't capable of making the big league club on the 40-man. If they can't make your team, what are the possibilities of them making another team (Rule 5) and if you have to cut them from a 40-man spot at some point, you basically give them away to someone who has 40-man spots to waste (i.e. Vielma).

 

Not sure about the status of Palka at this point in time.

 

This off-season is when we see how the new front office intends to operate, from minor league field staff, to signing of minor league free agents, to jettisoning minor league guys. (Michael and Harrison)

 

All I can say is that all those predictions of a bullpen of Chargois, Jones, Reed, Cederoth, Jay, Stewart (perhaps), Bard, Melotakis, Burdi, Rosario, Baxendale. My how things can change. Sure, a couple of those names will be viable in spring training (one hopes) like Bard and Reed. But still...

 

I just don't want the Twins to feel too comfortable with the current team. There's a lot of average average on the team. There was surprising power across the boards. There is some fresh arms in the pen, and lots of old standbys who are replacement level at best.

 

Overall, a good portion of the team will improve and get better. But there are some spots that won't.

[DaveW]

I'd still trade one of Rosario/Kepler for young pitching help #2 type.

 

Sign JD Martínez

[notoriousgod71]

Another factor is the 13 and sometimes 14 man pitching staff, which dramatically cuts down on the number of position players even able to be on this team.

 

 

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

While it was much noted that the Twins have used a record number of pitchers this year (35), I believe they will set a team record (at least in Minnesota) of using the fewest position players.

 

This reflects several things, in my opinion. First of all, there aren't many (if any) position players pushing to take major league roles. Secondly, the Twins position players have stayed relatively injury-free. Finally, they added no position players by trade. It's ironic that the same year they use 35 pitchers, they use the fewest number of position players in team history.

It also showed a lot of patience by the new front office and coaching staff. It would have been all too easy to demote/bench Buxton, Polanco, et al during various points of the season.

[spinowner]

 

Another factor is the 13 and sometimes 14 man pitching staff, which dramatically cuts down on the number of position players even able to be on this team.

This is just one of many pieces of evidence that make it obvious that pitching is where the Twins will be looking regarding trades and free agents. As an aside, I think it's time to acknowledge that the game has changed and increase the roster size to 26.

[notoriousgod71]

 

This is just one of many pieces of evidence that make it obvious that pitching is where the Twins will be looking regarding trades and free agents. As an aside, I think it's time to acknowledge that the game has changed and increase the roster size to 26.

 

I think that would encourage teams to add another pitcher instead of a position player, which to me is ridiculous because there are at least a four guys on virtually every staff that have no reason to sniff the big leagues but still get their 50 innings in.

 

At some point they are just going to have to go back to allowing starters to pitch deeper into games or else we'll get to the point where some team needs any one of us to suit up as that 15th pitcher.

[spinowner]

 

I think that would encourage teams to add another pitcher instead of a position player,

And that's fine if that's what the manager and GM of a team decide, but my guess is that most teams would add a position player. I should have elaborated a little more on my other post regarding changes in the game. Pitching staffs have increased in size because pitchers are used much differently and more batters work deep counts now compared to 40 years ago. I think it would improve the game to give managers the increased flexibility of having one more player on the roster.

[yarnivek1972]

This article points to how lucky the Twins have been with position-player injuries this season. Until Sano went down in August, they really didn't have anyone miss significant time. How often does that happen? It's surely not likely to happen again next year.

 

Escobar has been amazing as a general fill-in infielder. Adrianza has been surprisingly good and has not embarrassed himself in the outfield when needed. But I don't see a lot of position players at Rochester whom I'd be happy to see come up if someone did get injured.

 

It's a good lineup but a fragile lineup, and if we were to have 2-3 overlapping two-month injuries next year the drop-off in run production (and defense) could be huge.

The Twins were pretty healthy in 1991. Gladden missed a couple weeks. Junior Ortiz missed a couple weeks. That was really it position wise. Erickson broke down (more than likely a result of him overthrowing) and was forced to miss the all star game and of course, was never really anywhere close to as good as he was in the first half of 1991. But that was literally it. I don't think anyone else missed more than a couple days here and there because of injury.

[Bill Brown69]

 

I'd still trade one of Rosario/Kepler for young pitching help #2 type.

Sign JD Martínez

 

I think the pitcher that Rosie/Keplar would bring back on an even deal would be small pickings.

 

I would like to see them shoot for Chris Archer. Start with Granite, Gordon + Rays choice of 2 ML pitchers, 1 starter and 1 reliever  on the 40 man and 1 not on the 40 man. Then just hope they don't hang up on you. If next year had

Archer

Berrios

Santana

Then the competition between Gibby, Mejia, another veteran FA sign, Hughes(doubtful) the assorted ML starters that MIGHT be ready and add on hopefully Trevor May is ready by late June and finally you have a real rotation that might worry somebody, especially with this 8+ 1 big bat to protect Sano.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I think the pitcher that Rosie/Keplar would bring back on an even deal would be small pickings.

 

I would like to see them shoot for Chris Archer. Start with Granite, Gordon + Rays choice of 2 ML pitchers, 1 starter and 1 reliever on the 40 man and 1 not on the 40 man. Then just hope they don't hang up on you. If next year had

Archer

Berrios

Santana

Then the competition between Gibby, Mejia, another veteran FA sign, Hughes(doubtful) the assorted ML starters that MIGHT be ready and add on hopefully Trevor May is ready by late June and finally you have a real rotation that might worry somebody, especially with this 8+ 1 big bat to protect Sano.

You wouldn't have Archer, Santana, and Berrios in that rotation, because the only way the Rays even consider that is if the 40 man starter in your hypothetical is Berrios.

[drjim]

You wouldn't have Archer, Santana, and Berrios in that rotation, because the only way the Rays even consider that is if the 40 man starter in your hypothetical is Berrios.

It won't be consisered, but I wonder if Kepler and Gordon would be enough to get a conversation started.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

It won't be consisered, but I wonder if Kepler and Gordon would be enough to get a conversation started.

Kepler, Gordon, and Gonsalves for Archer. Do you do it? Do the Rays do it?

 

It's an interesting offer. Gordon finished on a low note but let's not forget he spent most of the season well over an .800 OPS. He's going to be a top 40 guy this offseason. Gonsalves will be a top 100 guy.

 

That's a lot of talent to give up for any single player (particularly a pitcher), though.

[drjim]

Kepler, Gordon, and Gonsalves for Archer. Do you do it? Do the Rays do it?

 

It's an interesting offer. Gordon finished on a low note but let's not forget he spent most of the season well over an .800 OPS. He's going to be a top 40 guy this offseason. Gonsalves will be a top 100 guy.

 

That's a lot of talent to give up for any single player (particularly a pitcher), though.

Archer is 29, has 2 more years and 2 option years at relatively reasonae rates.

 

If you really believe in Buxton and Rosario, and extend Dozier, the package makes sense. Doesn't feel like enough from the Twins tho.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Archer is 29, has 2 more years and 2 option years at relatively reasonae rates.

If you really believe in Buxton and Rosario, and extend Dozier, the package makes sense. Doesn't feel like enough from the Twins tho.

Two top 100 guys and a quality MLB starter with All-Star upside. I don't know how much more the Rays could get from anyone.

 

It really depends on how people view Gordon. If he's a legit MLB starting shortstop, that's a quality offer.

[Mr. Brooks]

Two top 100 guys and a quality MLB starter with All-Star upside. I don't know how much more the Rays could get from anyone.

 

It really depends on how people view Gordon. If he's a legit MLB starting shortstop, that's a quality offer.

Yeah it really does depend on Gordon. That's two straight years with a second half collapse. That has to be a big red flag to at least a few evaluators.

I could see Gordon having quite differing evaluations from different organizations.

 

I also think Kepler failed to take any kind of step forward this year, he still has value obviously, but I don't think it's super high on the trade front.

[Brock Beauchamp]

 

Yeah it really does depend on Gordon. That's two straight years with a second half collapse. That has to be a big red flag to at least a few evaluators.
I could see Gordon having quite differing evaluations from different organizations.

I also think Kepler failed to take any kind of step forward this year, he still has value obviously, but I don't think it's super high on the trade front.

I don't think the second half dive is that big a black mark on Gordon. It's not injury-related and he's still pretty young and lean. It could simply be a situation where he needs to grow into his body a bit more to withstand a 120+ game season.

[Mr. Brooks]

I don't think the second half dive is that big a black mark on Gordon. It's not injury-related and he's still pretty young and lean. It could simply be a situation where he needs to grow into his body a bit more to withstand a 120+ game season.

If it was conditioning, you'd hope it was addressed after the first year. Growing into his body will hopefully add some strength, but shouldn't have much affect on conditioning.