Game Thread: Twins vs. Blue Jays @ 7:10pm cdt 9/15/2017 AD

[jimbo92107]

 

Yeah, Big Sexy's been getting outs, but he ain't been fooling anyone.  

Not true. You're watching Bartolo Colon's impression of Greg Maddux. He's bending balls just a little left, just a little right, always on the sides of the zone. He's varying speeds, spins and locations. Every now and then he can hump it up to 91, but only rarely. Like Maddux, it doesn't look like much, but he's keeping them guessing, and keeping contact off the barrel. I watched Maddux for several years, and the biggest difference is that Maddux also could throw an array of curves, along with his array of bending fastballs. 

[h2oface]

 

His quotes in that article give me a notion why the new FO decided to move on with him.

 

The best one: “I feel bad for the kids who played for me, including the ones I managed that are helping the Twins make a run for the playoffs right now. Ask any of them about me as a manager.” Inviting the writer to ask players for references is OK, I guess, but the part about feeling bad for them is a downright odd way of saying it.

 

But the part about him pressing Steil, for information he can't give, is also key. It comes across as entitled. The rules don't apply to Dougie.

 

I get that he's angry because of the news. But other guys get fired and don't hand out quotes like those. If he's half as good as he thinks he is, he'll land on his feet with some other organization who values him, so why spew like that? In my opinion he cooked his own goose bit by bit, over the years, with stuff like this behind closed doors.

 

He's a polarizing figure, so I expect those here who enjoy that kind of fire to not be happy.

 

Count me as one of those. I enjoy an honest take, and not a filtered one. Real emotion. Working for two days on hurricane clean up, nerves fried, and the news comes delegated and with no explanation, by a phone call. And the FO spins it as doing him a favor:

 

Twins General Manager Thad Levine, though, said he and Chief Baseball Officer Derek Falvey were acting in Mientkiewicz’s interest by giving him as much notice as possible that he wouldn’t be back in 2018. “Changes are being made, and we have worked very closely with our senior leadership team and departments to determine the best course of action for the future,” Levine said. “Our hope and goal is to do so in a timely fashion, so that people who are not being retained have 100 percent access to job openings that may occur around the industry.”

 

I find it a bit cowardly and tactless, myself, regardless of whether you like the guy you maybe have never met before.... I find the FO lacking professionalism that is expected of administrators, in this case, just from how they did it and with no explanation, and "we aren't going to give you one".

 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

Article really only has Doug's point of view as the Twins basically say they won't comment. OK...fair enough. It's also on the FO to make decisions like these throughout the entire organization to put the system in place they want.

But all that being said, this sounds a little funny and smells a bit bad.

 

I'll say what I said in the thread in the minor league forum. Winning AA games does not necessarily mean he's good at developing players, and this org had a development issue. This is one of a number of firings, I have no doubt, but I'd guess that Dougie wasn't on board with their changes and as such he's going to find a new team next season.

[glunn]

 

His quotes in that article give me a notion why the new FO decided to move on with him.

 

The best one: “I feel bad for the kids who played for me, including the ones I managed that are helping the Twins make a run for the playoffs right now. Ask any of them about me as a manager.” Inviting the writer to ask players for references is OK, I guess, but the part about feeling bad for them is a downright odd way of saying it.

 

But the part about him pressing Steil, for information he can't give, is also key. It comes across as entitled. The rules don't apply to Dougie.

 

I get that he's angry because of the news. But other guys get fired and don't hand out quotes like those. If he's half as good as he thinks he is, he'll land on his feet with some other organization who values him, so why spew like that? In my opinion he cooked his own goose bit by bit, over the years, with stuff like this behind closed doors.

 

He's a polarizing figure, so I expect those here who enjoy that kind of fire to not be happy.

I don't disagree, but I would give some leeway for the fact that he just endured a hurricane.

[glunn]

 

Nice job after that HR. I get Gibson maybe coming back, and it might be smart. But I also really would be interested in Colon back. He brings exuberance and experience. Can't bring back both though.

Why not?

[USAFChief]

I think Dougie Baseball reacted poorly, and don't think he really fit in this regime...AND think Falvey, or at least Levine, need to make that call.  He's a field manager in your organization, he deserves to hear the news from the top.

[John Kelsey]

I can't believe people are discussing bringing back Colon. 

[USAFChief]

 

Not true. You're watching Bartolo Colon's impression of Greg Maddux. He's bending balls just a little left, just a little right, always on the sides of the zone. He's varying speeds, spins and locations. Every now and then he can hump it up to 91, but only rarely. Like Maddux, it doesn't look like much, but he's keeping them guessing, and keeping contact off the barrel. I watched Maddux for several years, and the biggest difference is that Maddux also could throw an array of curves, along with his array of bending fastballs. 

Greg Maddux?

 

Uh...no.

[yarnivek1972]

Bert was just mentioning Colon's pitch count.  Is that even a relevant thing for him?

 

The hitters will let you know when he is done.

[h2oface]

 

Not true. You're watching Bartolo Colon's impression of Greg Maddux. He's bending balls just a little left, just a little right, always on the sides of the zone. He's varying speeds, spins and locations. Every now and then he can hump it up to 91, but only rarely. Like Maddux, it doesn't look like much, but he's keeping them guessing, and keeping contact off the barrel. I watched Maddux for several years, and the biggest difference is that Maddux also could throw an array of curves, along with his array of bending fastballs. 

 

I can't believe you would compare Colon to Greg Maddux.

[Danchat]

Colon sure loves giving up solo HRs.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Well, he makes it through 6?  Then you have Hildy, Busenitz, and Ugh.

[amjgt]

Fire is being played with.

[USAFChief]

OK...6 is Big and Sexy enough, Molitor.

[amjgt]

Well, he makes it through 6? Then you have Hildy, Busenitz, and Ugh.

I was assuming Hildy wasn't available tonight.

[jimbo92107]

What makes a guy like Colon effective is that he's messing with a batter's "trigger zone," which is different than the strike zone. If he can throw a pitch that starts outside, but then bends inward to catch the outside edge, that's a strike, so you have to get your swing started. If that pitch doesn't bend in, you look like a fool. Same thing happens if it starts on the outer half, then bends out towards the edge. Strike, or ball? The ambiguity of the situation eventually forces you to expand your trigger zone, and pretty soon you're swinging at too many junk pitches because you've seen them bend to catch the edges. 

 

The flip side of this strategy is that these pitches are not doing anything special. If you catch one square, you can drive it right out of the park. Cat and mouse. 

[diehardtwinsfan]

 

I was assuming Hildy wasn't available tonight.

 

oh crap...  so can Busenitz go 3 innings or do we want to count on Duffey or Rodgers?

[Danchat]

 

What makes a guy like Colon effective is that he's messing with a batter's "trigger zone," which is different than the strike zone. If he can throw a pitch that starts outside, but then bends inward to catch the outside edge, that's a strike, so you have to get your swing started. If that pitch doesn't bend in, you look like a fool. Same thing happens if it starts on the outer half, then bends out towards the edge. Strike, or ball? The ambiguity of the situation eventually forces you to expand your trigger zone, and pretty soon you're swinging at too many junk pitches because you've seen them bend to catch the edges. 

 

The flip side of this strategy is that these pitches are not doing anything special. If you catch one square, you can drive it right out of the park. Cat and mouse. 

So that explains all the solo HRs then, does it?

[jimbo92107]

Let me clarify a bit. I'm not saying Colon is as good as Greg Maddux. I'm just saying he's using the same upper-80's fastball strategy. Maddux was even more precise, and also could throw curve balls on a dime. 

 

The comparison is more of style than of quality. However, Maddux did give up some impressive home runs. 

[DocBauer]

Why not?

Not saying it would be awful. But he and Gibson would only be 1 year deals. Santana could be done after 2018, we'll see. And while Gibson may have matured, and Colon is fun, solid, and brings intangibles, don't you really need to bring in another quality guy as good as Santana and Berrios to head the rotation? Just think you may be crowding the rotation. And you still have Mejia, of course.

[DocBauer]

Let me clarify a bit. I'm not saying Colon is as good as Greg Maddux. I'm just saying he's using the same upper-80's fastball strategy. Maddux was even more precise, and also could throw curve balls on a dime.

 

The comparison is more of style than of quality. However, Maddux did give up some impressive home runs.

Agree and think the comparison is apt. He's certainly not Maddux, but his approach and what he does is Maddux like.

[yarnivek1972]

Wonder how much rope they give Colon. I can't blame Molitor for trying to milk a few more outs (no weight jokes please) from Bart. The "good" bullpen guys have been worked a lot lately.

[John Kelsey]

Colon should not have thrown a pitch in this inning. 

[DocBauer]

I know hes given up the 2 solo shots, but he's been effective and the pitch count is good. I think I'd let him start the 7th and have a quick hook.

[USAFChief]

It's a mistake to bring Colon out for the 7th, and I don't care what the result is.

 

You have like 10 relievers out there.

 

Heck, it was questionable to bring him out for the 6th.

[TwinsCD]

What Molitor is doing here is putting a low-leverage pitcher (Pressly) in a high-leverage situation.  Why not bring him in at the start of the inning instead of trying to nibble around these guys with Colon?

[DocBauer]

How do we feel about Pressly warming up?

[Aggies7]

Thanks, paul.

[John Kelsey]

 

How do we feel about Pressly warming up?

 

Anything is better than keeping the big sexy pitching machine in. 

[amjgt]

He's been getting tattoed for 3 innings