Sonny Gray Trade Target?

[nytwinsfan]

 

I can't see the Twins surrendering any of the AA pitchers.  Maybe one of the Wells, (Lachlan or Tyler), but no one who could potentially help this season.

Well then it isn't going to happen unless the Twins are willing to trade Gordon, which I really doubt.  A's are probably going to need a top prospect like Gordon, Romero, Gonsalves to be in the package for Gray, when he has 2.5 years of control left. 

[mudcat14]

 

Well then it isn't going to happen unless the Twins are willing to trade Gordon, which I really doubt.  A's are probably going to need a top prospect like Gordon, Romero, Gonsalves to be in the package for Gray, when he has 2.5 years of control left. 

 

My offer was E. Rosario & Gordon.

[nicksaviking]

I'm not a huge Gray fan. I'd rather not sell the farm for an Oakland pitcher, they tend to be a mirage. I've seen his splits, he's fine on the road but I'm still quite leery. And I do not trust his health.

 

Either way, I don't see the front office "going for it" anyway. If they were they would have called up guys like Busenitz, Curtiss and Burdi right away instead of farting around giving one last chance to guys like Wimmers, Wilk, Rucinski, Belisle and Heston.

[kab21]

 

Gibson had similar numbers for a longer stretch of play in 2015. That's my point. The sample size is still in questionable territory. Could Gray become the pitcher he was in the past? Sure, absolutely. Is he that guy right now? Of that, I'm not sure.

 

Hence, skepticism.

 

Gray, if any form of healthy, is at least a serviceable starter. He has the ability to be much better than that. Right now, he looks to be back to his former self but I'm going to need a lot more than 50 innings to pay for 2014-2015 Gray.

 

And that's not even a slightly unreasonable opinion to have on the subject. I'm not sure why it's controversial that I've said multiple times that Gray is a great guy to target, I'm simply not willing to break open the farm system to get him based on his performance from two and three seasons ago.

The Gibson argument is irrelevant. Gibson never had a majority of his career as successful as Gray. And you continue to act like those successful seasons were so long ago. Right now his 2016 season (ERA at least - his SABR stats were still good) looks like the outlier and if you can get him for 2 good but not great prospects then that is a great deal. This is another situation where fans greatly overrate prospects.

[Mike Sixel]

I'm not a huge Gray fan. I'd rather not sell the farm for an Oakland pitcher, they tend to be a mirage. I've seen his splits, he's fine on the road but I'm still quite leery. And I do not trust his health.

 

Either way, I don't see the front office "going for it" anyway. If they were they would have called up guys like Busenitz, Curtiss and Burdi right away instead of farting around giving one last chance to guys like Wimmers, Wilk, Rucinski, Belisle and Heston.

Acquiring a guy with more than two years on his deal isn't going for it this year, imo. But I agree with the rest of this.

[nytwinsfan]

Let's wait a bit.  If things continue the way they are presently going we'll be discussing the Twins as sellers rather than buyers within a week or so.

[Brock Beauchamp]

The Gibson argument is irrelevant. Gibson never had a majority of his career as successful as Gray. And you continue to act like those successful seasons were so long ago. Right now his 2016 season (ERA at least - his SABR stats were still good) looks like the outlier and if you can get him for 2 good but not great prospects then that is a great deal. This is another situation where fans greatly overrate prospects.

Dunno about "good" prospects. I assume Gray will cost Gordon and Gonsalves/Romero.

 

Gonsalves/Romero are decent, maybe even good, prospects.

 

But Gordon was a good prospect six months ago. Now he's kinda looking like a great prospect. It depends whether you buy into his 2017 breakout. I'm not sure I do but he's going to be a top 30 prospect on off-season lists if he keeps rolling like he has this year.

 

Is that a fair price for Gray? Maybe. I'd prefer someone with a bit more control than Gray but that offer is in the ballpark.

[Bill Brown69]

 

Let's wait a bit.  If things continue the way they are presently going we'll be discussing the Twins as sellers rather than buyers within a week or so.

 

With the 2 years of control after this year it could be selling now to make the future. 

 

How about this out of the box idea. 3 team deal with Dozier, Gray and a package from whatever team as the lead pieces. We get Gray, Team X gets Dozier and the A's get Package X. I am sure we would still have to throw in some pieces but maybe not the top of the farm system.

 

That said I am not in a rush to trade Dozier and can't see it happening until we fall at least 5 games out BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Well this conversation is moot. Anyone else hear Tad Levine's interview with Cory Provus?

[USAFChief]

Well this conversation is moot. Anyone else hear Tad Levine's interview with Cory Provus?

No. Synopsis?

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

No. Synopsis?

Sounded like the plan of the Front Office is to add more prospects around the trade deadline.

[nytwinsfan]

 

With the 2 years of control after this year it could be selling now to make the future. 

 

How about this out of the box idea. 3 team deal with Dozier, Gray and a package from whatever team as the lead pieces. We get Gray, Team X gets Dozier and the A's get Package X. I am sure we would still have to throw in some pieces but maybe not the top of the farm system.

 

That said I am not in a rush to trade Dozier and can't see it happening until we fall at least 5 games out BUT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'd 100% be in favor of that. Dozier and Granite?

[nytwinsfan]

 

Sounded like the plan of the Front Office is to add more prospects around the trade deadline.

would be interested in any more details on this if you have them.

[howieramone2]

 

I'm not a huge Gray fan. I'd rather not sell the farm for an Oakland pitcher, they tend to be a mirage. I've seen his splits, he's fine on the road but I'm still quite leery. And I do not trust his health.

Either way, I don't see the front office "going for it" anyway. If they were they would have called up guys like Busenitz, Curtiss and Burdi right away instead of farting around giving one last chance to guys like Wimmers, Wilk, Rucinski, Belisle and Heston.

It only makes sense for a new regime to spent some time evaluating the roster. So far they have spent not quite half a season. Curtiss doesn't fit the mold of the hard throwers the team desires. Burdi missed all of last season. The usage of those 3 proves nothing.

 

I look for them to open up the farm system shortly.

 

 

 

[KirbyDome89]

 

Sounded like the plan of the Front Office is to add more prospects around the trade deadline.

Christmas in July

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

would be interested in any more details on this if you have them.

Well he didn't quite come out and say it, but, yeah he pretty much said it. That's how I heard it, anyway. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive with other things going on. Anyway, people might podcast it and decide for themselves. Maybe we'll set up a new thread.

 

Back to the Sonny Gray topic: I still think the Twins need to trade for an MLB starting pitcher. Trading away starting pitching to improve starting pitching makes no sense. They need pitching and there is none in the system in the high minors.

[howieramone2]

 

Sounded like the plan of the Front Office is to add more prospects around the trade deadline.

They are reassigning their top scouts to prepare for the trade deadline. They will also be evaluating our own prospects in case someone is interested. I didn't hear anything about us wanting to add prospects. Sounds to me, we are in a win now mode.

 

Also, Hughes will probably come back as a multi-inning reliever at some point in time and I believe Santiago will have a rehab start as early as Tuesday. Levine wouldn't commit to where and more than 1 start may be required.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

They are reassigning their top scouts to prepare for the trade deadline. They will be evaluating our own prospects in case someone is interested. I didn't hear anything about us wanting to add prospects. Sounds to me, we are in a win now mode.

I hope you are right! You might be. I might have woke on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

[Bill Brown69]

 

They are reassigning their top scouts to prepare for the trade deadline. They will be evaluating our own prospects in case someone is interested. I didn't hear anything about us wanting to add prospects. Sounds to me, we are in a win now mode.

 

I didn't hear it as a win now mode. I heard it as a "we are going to put the people in the positions we want them because we didn't want to uproot them before now" mode

[Bill Brown69]

Just to clarify my post, There could be a number of reasons not to uproot them until now but maybe the reassignment has to do with evaluating the info that the scouts are giving? Maybe the draft? Maybe so there are 2 different reports on players? There could be several other things also.

[Thrylos]

 

 

 

Having a 1-2 punch of Berrios and Gray would look very nice for a few years.  But is he sturdy enough to give up some very solid prospects?

 

There is serious talk between the Astros and the A's about Gray.  Gray projects as Houston's 4th best pitcher.  That's his position in a competitive team.

So 1-2 punch of Berrios and Gray, better be a 2-3 or a 3-4 punch, if the Twins want to compete.

 

At this point after giving up the opportunity to go 6 games ahead in the division, the Twins better be sellers.  Not that Gray cannot be part of the future, but a. not in the top of the rotation and b. not unless the A's will be ok with either veterans and/or supplemented by fringe prospects like Kohl Stewart and Zach Granite.

[howieramone2]

 

There is serious talk between the Astros and the A's about Gray.  Gray projects as Houston's 4th best pitcher.  That's his position in a competitive team.

So 1-2 punch of Berrios and Gray, better be a 2-3 or a 3-4 punch, if the Twins want to compete.

 

At this point after giving up the opportunity to go 6 games ahead in the division, the Twins better be sellers.  Not that Gray cannot be part of the future, but a. not in the top of the rotation and b. not unless the A's will be ok with either veterans and/or supplemented by fringe prospects like Kohl Stewart and Zach Granite.

What is magical about being 6 games ahead of the division? No doubt they will be buyers as long as they can stay within spitting distance of the lead.

[MangLitch]

Let's get real. We are sellers in a months time. True colors coming out this homestand.

[Thrylos]

 

What is magical about being 6 games ahead of the division? No doubt they will be buyers as long as they can stay within spitting distance of the lead

 

If they cannot beat competitive teams at home, they need to sell, not buy...

[brvama]

I'm not and never have been much of a fan of Gray, especially as an ace.  I think if the Twins were going after another pitcher they should shoot higher. 

 

Jackson Bruce at Puckett's Pond proposed a trade for the Ray's Chris Archer.  Here's the link: https://puckettspond.com/2017/06/15/minnesota-twins-trade-for-chris-archer-would-be-worth-it/

Archer is under contract thru '19 and there are team options for 20 and 21.  Now it would be questionable if they'd trade him, but I'd be more for this than Gray. Interesting take and of course pure speculation like a Gray trade.

 

Of course, Gordon would be the primary piece, along with other prospects.  I've change my thinking on using Gordon as that piece of we could net a #1 or 2 SP.  There are good MI prospects down on the farm and with Polanco playing well it shouldn't put the Twins in a bind at SS.

 

Also, if we are after a good and controllable SP, would including Gibson as part of it help soften the lost of a SP?  It be mostly a throw-in.  He does have decent stuff and a change of scenery might help him clean out the bad stuff in his head.  Also might, or not, lighten the cost a bit to a lower prospect. 

 

Anyway, I really do hope the FO does what it can to strengthen the Twins SP problems by targeting one for trade. 

[Guest]

Dunno about "good" prospects. I assume Gray will cost Gordon and Gonsalves/Romero.

Gonsalves/Romero are decent, maybe even good, prospects.

But Gordon was a good prospect six months ago. Now he's kinda looking like a great prospect. It depends whether you buy into his 2017 breakout. I'm not sure I do but he's going to be a top 30 prospect on off-season lists if he keeps rolling like he has this year.

Is that a fair price for Gray? Maybe. I'd prefer someone with a bit more control than Gray but that offer is in the ballpark.

Right now, Gordon is a good candidate for Southern League MVP, even though he's one of the youngest players in the league. Sounds like a great prospect.

 

OTOH, Sonny Gray is an above average MLB pitcher and could be quite valuable if he stays healthy.

 

Personally, I'd keep Gordon, who costs less, as well as Romero and Gonsalves, who could be starters for the 2018 Twins, trade Dozier and use the savings for a good free agent starter this winter.

 

Note: Romero's stats as a 22-year-old in AA are better than Gray's were.

[yarnivek1972]

Right now, Gordon is a good candidate for Southern League MVP, even though he's one of the youngest players in the league. Sounds like a great prospect.

 

OTOH, Sonny Gray is an above average MLB pitcher and could be quite valuable if he stays healthy.

 

Personally, I'd keep Gordon, who costs less, as well as Romero and Gonsalves, who could be starters for the 2018 Twins, trade Dozier and use the savings for a good free agent starter this winter.

 

Note: Romero's stats as a 22-year-old in AA are better than Gray's were.

Here's the list of free agent starters. If, by some act of stupidity or stubborness, Arrietta isn't extended, he's going to go where the money is best. That ain't going to be Minnesota.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/starting-pitcher/

 

 

So, who among the rest, piques your interest? None really pique mine other than Pineda - who is also likely to be extended prior to October.

[mudcat14]

Would LOVE to get Archer.  Expect it would take at least Gordon, Romero & Lewin Diaz.  Would be reluctant to give up Gonzo, Thorpe, Javier or Wade, which could gum things up from the Rays perspective.  Maybe one of the Wells' or Melotakis would sweetin the pot.

[Guest]

It only makes sense for a new regime to spent some time evaluating the roster. So far they have spent not quite half a season. Curtiss doesn't fit the mold of the hard throwers the team desires. Burdi missed all of last season. The usage of those 3 proves nothing.

 

I look for them to open up the farm system shortly.

Reports are that Curtiss throws 95+ with movement and his K rates support that. Why do you say he isn't the type of hard thrower the team desires?

[old nurse]

 

I'm not and never have been much of a fan of Gray, especially as an ace.  I think if the Twins were going after another pitcher they should shoot higher. 

 

Jackson Bruce at Puckett's Pond proposed a trade for the Ray's Chris Archer.  Here's the link: https://puckettspond.com/2017/06/15/minnesota-twins-trade-for-chris-archer-would-be-worth-it/

Archer is under contract thru '19 and there are team options for 20 and 21.  Now it would be questionable if they'd trade him, but I'd be more for this than Gray. Interesting take and of course pure speculation like a Gray trade.

 

Of course, Gordon would be the primary piece, along with other prospects.  I've change my thinking on using Gordon as that piece of we could net a #1 or 2 SP.  There are good MI prospects down on the farm and with Polanco playing well it shouldn't put the Twins in a bind at SS.

 

Also, if we are after a good and controllable SP, would including Gibson as part of it help soften the lost of a SP?  It be mostly a throw-in.  He does have decent stuff and a change of scenery might help him clean out the bad stuff in his head.  Also might, or not, lighten the cost a bit to a lower prospect. 

 

Anyway, I really do hope the FO does what it can to strengthen the Twins SP problems by targeting one for trade. 

Archer would require much more than Gordon. Likely Gonsalves or Romero and a higher ranked prospect in A ball or lower like Diaz, Javier or Blankenhorn.