How do we fix this so called bullpen?

[Doomtints]

Bullpen got a bit overworked after a long game -- which was their faults mind you, though they played mostly OK in extra innings. They had a major meltdown in the next game, probably due to fatigue/confidence issues from the previous game.

 

Regarding the Astros game, this was the first time in Astros franchise history where they managed to come back and win when down by 6 runs in the 8th.  

 

We are starting to see the types of problems that originally sank the Twins last year. Decent starting pitching followed by bullpen meltdowns. Later came the starting pitching meltdowns. Not a great sign, but for now it's best to assume the bullpen just needs some rest. On the plus side, the Twins are hitting well which can't hurt, something which the Twins lacked when they tanked last year.

 

Getting some bullpen help can't hurt, but it's a bit early for panic moves. The Twins should not move any assets to get bullpen help. Trade with cash, move up minor leaguers, trade pointless assets (of which there are not many), or just pick up a free agent.

[Vanimal46]

 

Philly can afford to hang onto those guys until July to try to get max value.  I think the best bet is look at a cast strapped team who is not contending and try to give up the least in prospects by maximizing salary relief.  Not to the extent of the James Shields acquisition by Chicago the other year, but a Daniel Hudson from Pittsburgh, or a Ryan Madson from Oakland.  Or both we need help.

 

I'd like this strategy of taking on additional salary. Especially this season when the payroll is low to begin with. It would take some magic from Falvey and Levine to convince Pohlad to take on $10+ MM in payroll halfway through the year, though. 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

No chance they'll do sweeping changes that are being suggested here, but I do think that once the pen situation stabalizes they'll probably gas Belisle or option Pressly and start rotating through guys like Hildenberger, Melotakis, Curtiss, etc.

They aren't going to throw marginal guys like that into too hot a fire right off the bat.

Belisle, Pressly, and Breslow aren't coming into the game today.  Probably not for several days -- I know they haven't been afraid to park Pressly for long stretches already this season (he only appeared twice between May 7 and May 24, for example).

 

If those guys aren't going to pitch, and you want fresh arms, I don't see the point in waiting.

[Vanimal46]

Frankly Pressly should have been sent down 3+ weeks ago. At this point he could have made 4-5 appearances at AAA to get back on track. If it's a mental issue and not an injury issue that's causing him to struggle, I don't see the point in continuing to trot him out there once every week or so. 

[SirLoin]

I content that the FO needs to make a decision on Justin Haley.  Either send him back or figure out a trade.  He really has no business taking a bullpen spot on a team that is contenting (albeit in a "weak" division, but still).  

[SirLoin]

I'm beginning to wonder if Hildenberger isn't Anthony Slama 2.0....  As in, he pitches well in the minors, but the FO, scouts, coaches know that AAA is basically his ceiling.  

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

Still, wouldn't you agree that Breslow has been a better RP this season than Belisle, Pressly, Haley, Wheeler and Boshers? My point is that he is probably the 4th best RP we've had this year.

It should be noted that Breslow has appeared almost exclusively in low-leverage situations. I'm not sure his statistical success in those situations is all that meaningful.

[Mike Sixel]

 

I'm beginning to wonder if Hildenberger isn't Anthony Slama 2.0....  As in, he pitches well in the minors, but the FO, scouts, coaches know that AAA is basically his ceiling.  

 

that might be true.

 

a: we won't really know until he gets a shot

b: is that actually worse than Breslow, Belisle, Wilk, Rucinski, et. al.?

[yarnivek1972]

The top of a pile of junk is still junk.

 

Wheeler hasn't pitched at the mlb level yet. So, no reason to dismiss him yet. I wouldn't mind seeing him replace GIbson. I've seen more than enough of Gibson as a starter. Boshers really hasn't pitched much at the mlb level either. I don't know if he would be more effective than Breslow or not. He was far better than Breslow was in 2016.

[jud6312]

How about they just start giving them the wrong flight, bus, game times, etc.?

 

Can't  cough up the lead if they're not in the stadium

 

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/138/reece.JPG

[nicksaviking]

 

I'm beginning to wonder if Hildenberger isn't Anthony Slama 2.0....  As in, he pitches well in the minors, but the FO, scouts, coaches know that AAA is basically his ceiling.  

 

It could get to that, but seeing as the front office is also hesitant to call up the prospects with more traditional promise (Chargois, Melotakis, Curtiss, Busenitz, Bard, Burdi ), at this point I'm going to chalk it up to some kind of organizational preference to keeping as little youth in the pen as they possibly can.

[Otto von Ballpark]

It should be noted that the front office's job is not just limited to signing MLB free agents in the offseason and advancing obvious top prospects through the system. They also have an obligation to try finding and developing contributors from other sources, like Hildenberger, etc. The odds of success are lower there, but teams can and do receive contributions from those types of players.

 

And if it is the front office's judgement that the Twins AA and AAA pitchers really, truly are unworthy of basically any kind of trial or even advancement toward possible MLB contribution in 2017 -- doesn't that just make their offseason bullpen strategy even worse?

 

And I'm not giving them a pass because of injuries -- Burdi wasn't very good in 2015 and missed much of 2016, Jake Reed was awful in 2015 and mediocre in 2016, Jay was ostensibly still a starter who had some lower minors speed bumps in 2016, Chargois was iffy in his MLB debut and had a pretty spotty pre-2016 track record, etc.  Not to say you'd give up on those guys, but counting on them as your sole means of bullpen reinforcement in early 2017 is pretty foolish.

[lukeduke1980]

 

I content that the FO needs to make a decision on Justin Haley.  Either send him back or figure out a trade.  He really has no business taking a bullpen spot on a team that is contenting (albeit in a "weak" division, but still).  

Seriously I agree.  What's the appeal?  It's fine for a 90 loss team to keep a high ceiling guy this way but not sure what Haley's ceiling is

[DaveW]

Yeah just make the trade for Haley.

[drjim]

 

Belisle, Pressly, and Breslow aren't coming into the game today.  Probably not for several days -- I know they haven't been afraid to park Pressly for long stretches already this season (he only appeared twice between May 7 and May 24, for example).

 

If those guys aren't going to pitch, and you want fresh arms, I don't see the point in waiting.

 

I don't think it happens tomorrow either. They have some fresh arms to cover for a short start or if they are losing. Just on the radar for the next couple of weeks when things aren't a scramble.

[Otto von Ballpark]

I'm not sure Haley is worth trading anything of value for, but I'm also not sure the Red Sox have any incentive to trade him for virtually nothing.  They'd probably find him useful as a fairly effective non-40-man AAA starter, and I think they could renew his contract in that role through the 2019 season (assuming no one else takes him in Rule 5 again).

[drjim]

 

It's way too early to move Romero to the pen. His ceiling is front of the rotation starter, you don't bail on that potential until you are convinced that he won't make it as a starter.

I don't even know where this opinion is coming from, actually. A few rough weeks transitioning to AA?

 

Took a longer look at him as I was thinking about pitching help. He is a 6'0 RHP with a serious injury behind him. As he builds up innings, he won't be ready for a full season the mlb rotation until 2019 at the earliest, and that's optimistic and assuming everything goes well. He has really good stuff that would play up in the pen. There is a very clear need there, he could help later this year.

[Mike Sixel]

Other than stubbornness, can anyone explain why they should care about keeping Haley at this point?

[yarnivek1972]

I'm not sure Haley is worth trading anything of value for, but I'm also not sure the Red Sox have any incentive to trade him for virtually nothing. They'd probably find him useful as a fairly effective non-40-man AAA starter, and I think they could renew his contract in that role through the 2019 season (assuming no one else takes him in Rule 5 again).

Maybe they would take Wilk for him. lol

[Mike Sixel]

There are teams that use AA/AAA starters as RPs their first taste in teh majors, teams that have a significantly better track record than MN in developing pitching (Cardinals, for example)....I have no idea if they SHOULD do that with Romero or not, but dismissing it out of hand seems odd to me, given that we've seen it work.

[nater79a]

 

It's way too early to move Romero to the pen. His ceiling is front of the rotation starter, you don't bail on that potential until you are convinced that he won't make it as a starter.

I don't even know where this opinion is coming from, actually. A few rough weeks transitioning to AA?

 

Absolutely regarding Romero.  He;d be my #1 prospect...as a starter.  Over Gordon, Kirilloff, Gonsalves, everybody... 

 

Hopefully anchoring the top half of the Twins rotation in '19 along with Berrios and....Kyle Wright.

[laloesch]

 

Ouch, those are ugly numbers. Still, wouldn't you agree that Breslow has been a better RP this season than Belisle, Pressly, Haley, Wheeler and Boshers? My point is that he is probably the 4th best RP we've had this year. I know that's a bit depressing bu tyou have to think about the big picture. Dumping him now doesn't solve the short term problem, it makes it worse. I understand that Pressly and Haley have more long term potential but that still leaves Belisle, Wheeler and Boshers as fringe expendable players.

 

The bullpen needs new blood. It's going to take a while to cycle through Busenitz, Hildenberg, Baxendale, Melotakis, Curtis, Bard, etc.... before we can settle on the "right" 7-8 guys.  It's very tough on the team to make wholesale changes all at once. Breslow is pitching at an adequate level. The group above can go first.       

 

They should have started this process last year.  Of course not all of these guys were ready yet, but it could have started and should have started instead of kicking the can down the road to 2017 before beginning in earnest.  Now when the games are more competitive they are struggling with a complete garbage bullpen. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

They should have started this process last year.  Of course not all of these guys were ready yet, but it could have started and should have started instead of kicking the can down the road to 2017 before beginning in earnest.  Now when the games are more competitive they are struggling with a complete garbage bullpen. 

 

Amen.

[drjim]

 

They should have started this process last year.  Of course not all of these guys were ready yet, but it could have started and should have started instead of kicking the can down the road to 2017 before beginning in earnest.  Now when the games are more competitive they are struggling with a complete garbage bullpen. 

 

If by "not all these guys" you meant "none of these guys" you would be accurate. And putting them in the majors last year would have accomplished nothing.

[laloesch]

 

Took a longer look at him as I was thinking about pitching help. He is a 6'0 RHP with a serious injury behind him. As he builds up innings, he won't be ready for a full season the mlb rotation until 2019 at the earliest, and that's optimistic and assuming everything goes well. He has really good stuff that would play up in the pen. There is a very clear need there, he could help later this year.

 

Is Tyler Jay hurt?  Wouldn't he be a logical choice.  What about Slegers?  Roll the dice.  

[Taildragger8791]

I hope one lesson we've learned from this is that "blocking" prospects on this team is rarely the issue some think it is. There were 4-5 minor leaguers being penciled in to save the 2017 bullpen and pretty much all of those options have cratered only 2 months into the season, leaving us with nothing. Pitching injuries and prospect development is just too much of a minefield to pinpoint when guys will be ready and able to help. I'd rather build depth from every source and let prospects force their way onto the roster. You can always make room and make trades if you find yourself with an embarrassment of riches.

[laloesch]

 

I agree. that's one of the main reasons the Front Office needed to change. Let's see if the new FO will at least start the process soon. 

 

Will be interesting to watch.  I am not faulting them for it.  I'm sure Falvey and Levine have had their hands full since last November.    

[Vanimal46]

 

Is Tyler Jay hurt?  Wouldn't he be a logical choice.  What about Slegers?  Roll the dice.  

 

Jay was just activated from the DL a week ago... He should be right up there on the list for fast tracking to the majors. 

[yarnivek1972]

The bottom line for me is that the Twins aren't going to contend for anything with essentially a three man bullpen.  Especially when those three are Kintzler, Rogers and Duffey.  All 3 are serviceable to solid MLB relievers, but they are not bullpen stoppers by any stretch of the imagination.  

[Taildragger8791]

 

Is Tyler Jay hurt?  Wouldn't he be a logical choice.  What about Slegers?  Roll the dice.  

 

Jay just returned from bicep tendinitis and has only made one appearance in his new role as a reliever. He'll take time to settle in and make sure he's healthy. Although with bicep tendinitis on the table I'm sure it's only a matter of time until Jay's arm is on the (operating) table.