If then.....a trade for pitching question.

[crapforks]

I think if the Twins are in contention, they are looking for a pure rental. Maybe just convince ownership to take on some salary. They've (ownership) been saying for years they can add to payroll if needed, but JR always found a way to avoid arguing for that. Probably a moot point in July anyhow.

[Riverbrian]

 

The premise of this discussion is that you fill that hole via trade. The overreach of a Matt Capps for Wilson Ramos is the cautionary example, locked in the jaws of our organizational memory like a bad "cap" on a rotten root canal. 

 

The best way to fill that hole is not via trade, but by promoting from within. Jose Berrios may be the answer to this pitching question. That's the best, next option, before reaching for the dentist's drill marked "trade."

 

Absolutely

 

Conditions:

Are we in contention?

Do we have guys within to improve the team where needed?

Is their someone available for trade who improves the team where needed at a less than Ramos for Capps price. 

[yarnivek1972]

Yes, let's trade away prospects to help a team that is 6-12 against teams that are currently above .500.

 

BRILLIANT!

[Platoon]

Giving up 31 runs on 40 hits in 3 games indicates a need for a lot of prospects for trade bait! I don't think Nick Gordon will suffice.

[Kwak]

 

Exactly. In the span of 10 posts prospects went from "overvalued" to "almost worthless."

 

MN sports fans for ya!

What's really sad is when both statements are correct.

[Han Joelo]

If it's a Hamels to the Rangers type trade, sure.

[Riverbrian]

 

Yes, let's trade away prospects to help a team that is 6-12 against teams that are currently above .500.

BRILLIANT!

 

Then the team won't be in contention and the potential issue is removed from consideration. Problem Solved! 

[USAFChief]

Wait for AZ to tank and take on Grienke's salary.

[Mike Sixel]

No chance to team is ten plus over at the break,imo. They don't have a good minor league system, somehow... So they don't have much to spare. Long answer, no way.

[Jham]

The talking in absolutes is dumb. Of course you make the trade if you can maximize return. It sure looks like we should have dealt Stewart before he ceilinged out at 4k/9 and Jay and Duffy before they went relief, and Gibson before he went mia and Tonkin Reed Thorpe etc. Not all of our prospects are going to make it. Even fewer will be any better than ordinary replacement level jags. Figure out who we like and who is expendable. Then trade them before publicly calling out weight, defense, work ethic, control, ability to start, ability to stick at short, or health or whatever.

[drjim]

No chance to team is ten plus over at the break,imo. They don't have a good minor league system, somehow... So they don't have much to spare. Long answer, no way.

The should fire the person who oversaw the franchise while it developed such a poor farm system.

[Platoon]

The simple fact that they could not get anything near what they wanted for a MI who hit 42 HR last year seems to make the idea of an impact trade simple fancy unless Sano or Buxton is included. Trading Santana simply changes names and ages. The team is in a quandary which will likely take a lot of FA money, and some luck. One of which up to now the team hasn't used, and one which isn't really a good operating philosophy.

[diehardtwinsfan]

As bad as the rotation is, I'd think about selling, not buying. Santana is the only starter on this team I'd be comfortable with starting a playoff game.  Santiago as a game 4 starter I could potentially live with, but not like it.  They need at least two starters and do not have the prospect capital to get them.  It would make more sense to shed guys like Santiago, Santana, and Dozier and then make a big splash this offseason on some of the FA pitchers available.  Only way I see that changes is if something clicks with Hughes, Gibson, Berrios, and/or Mejia, because Santana/Santiago and pray for rain won't cut it.  The offense looks good, but it isn't good enough to overcome that.

[kab21]

There is nothing about this team that says go for it. They might be able to stay around .500 until the trade deadline but they would need luck to advance against any playoff team (ALDS). The playoffs might be a crapshoot for strong teams but weak teams (not necessarily measured by record) get weeded out.

 

Trading top 5 org prospects for a very good rental - NO

Trading top 5 org prospects for a very good 1.5 year (or longer) player - possibly if it is a good value

Trading top 15-30 prospects for a gap filler (like the Santiago or Jepsen trades) - Sure

 

Trading away Santiago or Santana while at .500 - #@%$# NO!

Trading away Dozier (for near ready or MLB pitching) with Escobar and Polanco playing really well - I am listening

[Mike Sixel]

 

There is nothing about this team that says go for it. They might be able to stay around .500 until the trade deadline but they would need luck to advance against any playoff team (ALDS). The playoffs might be a crapshoot for strong teams but weak teams (not necessarily measured by record) get weeded out.

 

Trading top 5 org prospects for a very good rental - NO

Trading top 5 org prospects for a very good 1.5 year (or longer) player - possibly if it is a good value

Trading top 15-30 prospects for a gap filler (like the Santiago or Jepsen trades) - Sure

 

Trading away Santiago or Santana while at .500 - #@%$# NO!

Trading away Dozier (for near ready or MLB pitching) with Escobar and Polanco playing really well - I am listening

 

Other than the 2nd to last section, I agree.

 

If they are .500 at the deadline, I absolutely trade any older veteran. It's what the Yankees did last year. It's what a rebuilding team does. And, this team is rebuilding.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Wait for AZ to tank and take on Grienke's salary.

 

The odds of AZ being the ones to tank and not us are not very strong.

 

That's a much better team overall IMO.

[Vanimal46]

What would people think about shuffling the deck a bit and include an MLB player along with a prospect for pitching? Someone like Eddie Rosario for example paired up with pick your poison prospect to get a SP.

[drjim]

 

What would people think about shuffling the deck a bit and include an MLB player along with a prospect for pitching? Someone like Eddie Rosario for example paired up with pick your poison prospect to get a SP.

 

Much more likely in the offseason. Teams don't really have a surplus of mlb pitching at this stage.

[Vanimal46]

 

Much more likely in the offseason. Teams don't really have a surplus of mlb pitching at this stage.

 

I'd certainly be open to that in the off-season. By that time, we'll have a better understanding if Granite or Wade could step into a 4th OF role. The list of FA OF's next off-season isn't too shabby either if they need a starting LF. 

[nicksaviking]

 

Patience. 

 

Toronto is 6 games away from a wild card spot (same with San Francisco, the worst NL team.)  This is a good winning streak away from being relevant.   They will not sell now.

 

Have that number be 10-15 and then talks might start.  Could be as soon as the end of the month.

 

I think that the Twins have a really good trading chip for a rental pitcher in the minors:  Kyle Gibson.

 

The pen needs work as well.  Kintzler this season has been irritating to say the least.

 

Liriano has a pretty bad contract the rest of the season though all things considered. He hasn't been good this year and Toronto may be amenable to dumping the contract to free up some money that might be used better if they do get back into contention. They should be getting Aaron Sanchez and JA Haap back so pitching might be expendable in their eyes.

[Taildragger8791]

Vanimal46, on 08 May 2017 - 10:29 AM, said:

What would people think about shuffling the deck a bit and include an MLB player along with a prospect for pitching? Someone like Eddie Rosario for example paired up with pick your poison prospect to get a SP.

 

 

I think you'd almost have to in order to get any real value back, assuming other teams value the player(s) also. I don't think we have any non-pitching prospects that would generate serious interest in a trade partner other than maybe Nick Gordon or a package of several A-ball & rookie league players. As much as I like Rosario/Polanco/Vargas we are in a good position to replace them internally or in free agency next year.

 

Sano, Buxton, and maybe Kepler are my only untouchables. I'd still be willing to listen on Kepler if the return pitching was crazy good.

[kab21]

 

Other than the 2nd to last section, I agree.

 

If they are .500 at the deadline, I absolutely trade any older veteran. It's what the Yankees did last year. It's what a rebuilding team does. And, this team is rebuilding.

With the new WC rules that is only a few games out of the playoffs. I might not be all in but waving the white flag if you are that close sends a very bad message to the players and to the fans after so many years of losing. I am not trading SP at that point. I would trade from depth (like Dozier or Escobar) though.

[Vanimal46]

 

I think you'd almost have to in order to get any real value back, assuming other teams value the player(s) also. I don't think we have any non-pitching prospects that would generate serious interest in a trade partner other than maybe Nick Gordon or a package of several A-ball & rookie league players. As much as I like Rosario/Polanco/Vargas but we are in a good position to replace them internally or in free agency next year.

 

Sano, Buxton, and maybe Kepler are my only untouchables. I'd still be willing to listen on Kepler if the return pitching was crazy good.

 

Yeah, Rosario would be the first choice to dangle in a trade since my untouchables are similar to yours. If Kepler could bring in a very good, young controlled pitcher like a Marcus Stroman type, then that may be enough to think about letting Kepler go. 

[Mike Sixel]

 

With the new WC rules that is only a few games out of the playoffs. I might not be all in but waving the white flag if you are that sends a very bad message to the players and to the fans. I am not trading SP at that point. I would trade from depth (like Dozier or Escobar) though.

 

Fans support winners. If they are winning more in multiple years past this one because they made a good trade, no one will care about this year.

 

Fangraphs had a great interview with the Yankees' GM about this, and how hard it was to finally convince ownership they needed to sell in a year like last year, to build for the future. The Twins have refused to sell for too long now. Hence the weak farm system.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Fans support winners. If they are winning more in multiple years past this one because they made a good trade, no one will care about this year.

 

Fangraphs had a great interview with the Yankees' GM about this, and how hard it was to finally convince ownership they needed to sell in a year like last year, to build for the future. The Twins have refused to sell for too long now. Hence the weak farm system.

 

As painful as it would be to gut a competitive team after years of despair, it's the smart approach. Otherwise this team could end up right back in the gutter next year like they did going from '15 to '16. This team isn't going anywhere until it gets sustainable pitching and that's not going to come from within the organization or in free agency in the next few years.

[kab21]

 

Fans support winners. If they are winning more in multiple years past this one because they made a good trade, no one will care about this year.

 

Fangraphs had a great interview with the Yankees' GM about this, and how hard it was to finally convince ownership they needed to sell in a year like last year, to build for the future. The Twins have refused to sell for too long now. Hence the weak farm system.

Fans support winners and you propose taking a team that is a few games out of the WC and turning it into a loser? No, that isn't a smart move unless you have several players that are leaving in FA and you can cash in by trading those players. Trading Santiago for a mediocre prospect isn't cashing in.

[Mike Sixel]

 

Fans support winners and you propose taking a team that is a few games out of the WC and turning it into a loser? No, that isn't a smart move unless you have several players that are leaving in FA and you can cash in by trading those players. Trading Santiago for a mediocre prospect isn't cashing in.

 

yes, Yes I suggest that.

 

This team is not good. It is not close to having legit pitching (I mean, Berrios isn't good enough to be here). 

 

yes, I suggest trading players and getting a better future. Just like the Yankees did last year.

[drjim]

 

yes, Yes I suggest that.

 

This team is not good. It is not close to having legit pitching (I mean, Berrios isn't good enough to be here). 

 

yes, I suggest trading players and getting a better future. Just like the Yankees did last year.

 

The Twins and Yankees are in quite different positions. The Yankees have had 20something years straight above .500 but had grown stale. Another year of close competition without a deep playoff run would do nothing for them. Made sense to turn over an aging roster.

 

The Twins have been brutal for 7 years, selling off when they are borderline competitive for bit pieces would not be received well. If they drop off significantly that's a different story.

[Taildragger8791]

 

Fans support winners and you propose taking a team that is a few games out of the WC and turning it into a loser? No, that isn't a smart move unless you have several players that are leaving in FA and you can cash in by trading those players. Trading Santiago for a mediocre prospect isn't cashing in.

 

Fans support actual winners. Perennial winners. Not teams that play over their head for a couple months. That's why Target Field is still only 1/3rd full despite being over .500 and even spending time in 1st place in the division in May.

[drjim]

 

Fans support actual winners. Perennial winners. Not teams that play over their head for a couple months. That's why Target Field is still only 1/3rd full despite being over .500 and even spending time in 1st place in the division in May.

 

You have to start somewhere. Why not this season?

 

The pitching is no good, and they'll have some ugly games when the bullpen gets smoked, but the lineup is good enough to remain respectable all year. And it might even get better as the year goes along.