Is it time to just release him?

[DaveW]

and at the time, most of us considered that a real possiblity... His projections by the good folks over at BP was a .270ish hitter, which was a huge improvement over the likes of Tolbert and Punto... or so we thought

I liked the move as well.

[James]

That's actually not what happened.

I know he lost the ball in the sun. That does happen. I wasn't that mad about that part. It was more his reaction. I'm sure he turned to look for direction from Span or Dozier, but he didn't exactly go after the ball after it landed.

[DPJ]

I liked the move as well.

I would like to go on the record as saying I hated the move.

[jokin]

I just watched it and I don't like Nishioka at all, but if Gladden said that then he is blatantly lying to make Nishioka look worse. Nishioka clearly thought it landed behind him and turned his back to look for the damn ball. It actually landed on the infield side and he turned around as soon as he heard it fall. It's pretty disgusting when announcers have to start in on players like that

I'm not a Gladden fan, but how can he make Nishi look worse? To me, it did appear that he was "walking away" with no sense of urgency, whether he knew where the ball was or not. It was funny, on TV they said there was likely a Sun problem- as the camera panned to a shot of a very overcast sky.

[jokin]

I would like to go on the record as saying I hated the move.

I only believe you if Dave can verify it from the BYTO archives...

[DaveW]

I only believe you if Dave can verify it from the BYTO archives...

To be fair DPJ hate(d)/(s) most every move the Twins make.

[DPJ]

I only believe you if Dave can verify it from the BYTO archives...

Tell Dave to go nuts, hell I'm pretty sure the whole JJ/Nishi debates lead to the most fun I've ever had on BYTO.

[DPJ]

To be fair DPJ hate(d)/(s) most every move the Twins make.

And maybe I'm onto something since they suck.

[Badsmerf]

I would like to go on the record as saying I hated the move.

Can this post make the Hall of Posts?

[Highabove]

"Nishioka 4 Twins 2"

 

Bert Byleven August 8 2012

[Shane Wahl]

I'm not a Gladden fan, but how can he make Nishi look worse? To me, it did appear that he was "walking away" with no sense of urgency, whether he knew where the ball was or not. It was funny, on TV they said there was likely a Sun problem- as the camera panned to a shot of a very overcast sky.

Well he turns away and looks and sees Revere running in beside him so then he turns around and then did actually move quickly toward the ball. Of course he should have not made it look he could see it and was calling Span off.

 

Ok, i just watched the slo-mo replay and it does look worse than in real time . . .

[Shane Wahl]

"Nishioka 4 Twins 2"

 

Bert Byleven August 8 2012

He said that!?

 

I mean he is terrible, but Duensing also doesn't belong as a starter. Good god . . . they had to switch in-game from the windup to the stretch. That's atrocious.

[freightmaster]

I saw that one when I was at work. He lost the ball, turned his back and just walked away. He then saw it land and continued walking away like the play didn't count or something like that. Revere had to pick up the ball and throw it in.

 

I hope his translator conveyed the tone properly when Gardy was screaming at him in the club house.

I have never paid much attention to all the criticism, after watching him today, totally lost, but looking cocky, nonetheless,

 

send him to the lowest affliate that needs a bench warmer, maybe he can develop a knuckleball? What I saw today was unbelievable, he looked scared, no confidence, of course the other thing is he is trying too hard to make an impression, he made an impression but not what you would want.

[LaBombo]

thrylos98 - I won't say you're missing the point about Nishy, but you're maybe undervaluing it.

 

Yes, it's true that short of maiming or murdering productive teammates, Nishy in a utility role won't affect the outcome of this throwaway season in any meaningful way.

 

That's not the point. The point is that Nish isn't being played to avoid the appearance of sunk cost, he's playing because an injury to one infielder has left the Twins with no appreciably better option than an abject failure.

 

This is a guy who barely looks like he's played any baseball before, let alone the major league kind. Just his presence on the roster is a powerful indictment of the failure of a business that has received an enormous public subsidy. Sure, that doesn't obligate the Twins to spend, let alone win.

 

But short of Terry Ryan forcing the fans at home games to enter through a single gate and personally telling every one of them to go f#@% themselves, it's hard to see how he could cultivate more ill will than the kind generated by allowing a ballplayer who can't play ball to suit up every night.

 

PS Thanks for posting the awesome Nishy Error photo...

[Thrylos]

ok.

 

Because there is a lot of discussion about where the ball was, where Nishioka was, and all that stuff, I decided that a picture is worth more than a thousand words and put one here.

 

Enjoy

[one_eyed_jack]

Good gracious how many Nishi-bashing threads do we need? And how much longer to we need to flagellate the defunct equine here?

 

I tend to agree with thrylos on this one, way too big a deal is being made out of this. He's a failed signing, which is unfortunate, but there are bigger problems and more pressing matters.

[stringer bell]

Nishi's misplays: I just watched the game on DVR and they weren't quite as bad as I thought. He made a nice diving stop on his official error, but perhaps not knowing the runner was slow (or being a showboat) he tried to flip the ball from his glove. He looked like he had the ball measured on the popup, let it drop and oddly just walked instead of quickley getting the ball. He needed to make a good throw after fielding the hopper, if he had charged it, he might have had more time. Again, perhaps he wasn't aware how fast the runner was (this guy is really fast). All in all, not a major league effort, with an oddness added for his reaction to the popup dropping.

 

That Bert and Dick threw him under the bus indicates that the end is near IMHO.

[notoriousgod71]

Give Nishi credit. He didn't just stand and point at the ball like Delmon.

[J-Dog Dungan]

OK, I was working today so I missed whatever happened. What did Nishi do today?

Here is a summary of what Nishi has done wrong in the last few days, according to Phil Mackey of 1500espn.com:Monday: Made an error of the first ball hit to him, and threw the ball wide to first. Charged with another error later on in the gameTuesday: Went to the wrong spot on a relay throw-something he has been working on in AAA, and was late covering the bag on a bunt play.Today: Where do I start? He botched a double play ball, lost a pop fly in the sun and then started walking away from it, and made a bad throw home where a good throw would have gotten the runner.Also, he is still 0-fer, the only good things he has done at the plate is to sac-fly in the go-ahead run yesterday, and take one walk.

[fatbeer]

Give Nishi credit. He didn't just stand and point at the ball like Delmon.

I missed the part where this ball bounced into the stands. Dislike Delmon all you want but on that play the last thing he should have done was go after the ball, the umps awarded 3 bases on something that was a possible double that has nothing to do with the left fielder.

[minn55441]

Criticism should be aimed at Twins, not Tsuyoshi Nishioka

 

From Mackey's article today.

"Nishioka's performance this week was so bad -- save for a sac fly on Tuesday that drove home the go-ahead run in the ninth inning -- that even TV and radio analysts Bert Blyleven and Dan Gladden were more critical than usual. But as easy as it is to pile on the guy who is clearly overmatched in the major leagues, continuing to rip on Nishioka is missing the target entirely."

 

I agree, this should not be another "rip Nishi thread", but instead as the title indicates "Is it time to just release him"?

 

What benefit is there to keeping him on the 40 man roster. Does Rochester need a SS/2B for the remainder of this year and 2013? I think everyone is agreed he has no business setting foot on another major league diamond. I say write him and check and have him clean out his locker. His visit to the US is over.

[mnfireman]

Trade him to Cleveland, after watching 2 of the 3 games, he'd fit right in!

[diehardtwinsfan]

Tell Dave to go nuts, hell I'm pretty sure the whole JJ/Nishi debates lead to the most fun I've ever had on BYTO.

 

To be clear, I don't think many people were in favor of dumping JJ... I know I wasn't on that list. Most of us thought that Nishi could be a .700 OPS guy playing above average defense.... sadly, none of us saw him play.

[ScottyB]

I wouldn't release him with $3M left for next year. Instead I would send him to Fort Meyers or maybe the Gulf Coast League. Embarrass him enough and he will leave his contract and go back to Japan. He isn't even a AAAA or AAA player. Then use that $3M to add on to a decent pitcher for next year.

[diehardtwinsfan]

I don't think there's a person on this planet who would turn down 3M for 6 months of embarrassment.

[mudcat14]

Not sure of the particulars of MLB contracts, but couldn't they offer him a lesser buyout and free-agency, or tell him he'll spend next year as a $3mil back-up in AA-AAA? I would assume there's still a market for him in his homeland. Maybe they could sell him back to a Japanese team for next to nothing if they assumed his contract. He was already making that much over there before wasn't he?

[Mchans24]

thrylos98 - I won't say you're missing the point about Nishy, but you're maybe undervaluing it.

 

Yes, it's true that short of maiming or murdering productive teammates, Nishy in a utility role won't affect the outcome of this throwaway season in any meaningful way.

 

That's not the point. The point is that Nish isn't being played to avoid the appearance of sunk cost, he's playing because an injury to one infielder has left the Twins with no appreciably better option than an abject failure.

 

This is a guy who barely looks like he's played any baseball before, let alone the major league kind. Just his presence on the roster is a powerful indictment of the failure of a business that has received an enormous public subsidy. Sure, that doesn't obligate the Twins to spend, let alone win.

 

But short of Terry Ryan forcing the fans at home games to enter through a single gate and personally telling every one of them to go f#@% themselves, it's hard to see how he could cultivate more ill will than the kind generated by allowing a ballplayer who can't play ball to suit up every night.

 

PS Thanks for posting the awesome Nishy Error photo...

 

 

Seriously peed my pants laughing at the TR bit at the gate!!

[jokin]

Nishi's misplays: I just watched the game on DVR and they weren't quite as bad as I thought. He made a nice diving stop on his official error, but perhaps not knowing the runner was slow (or being a showboat) he tried to flip the ball from his glove. He looked like he had the ball measured on the popup, let it drop and oddly just walked instead of quickley getting the ball. He needed to make a good throw after fielding the hopper, if he had charged it, he might have had more time. Again, perhaps he wasn't aware how fast the runner was (this guy is really fast). All in all, not a major league effort, with an oddness added for his reaction to the popup dropping.

 

That Bert and Dick threw him under the bus indicates that the end is near IMHO.

I know it's part of our better nature to try to be generous here, but, the nice diving stop was not only unnecessary, his flip was also unnecessary, his unnecessary flip also went in a direction opposite to where Dozier was positioned at 2B. Measured pop-up? He let it drop a good 10-15 in front of him, and turned away opposite from where the ball landed in front of him. On the play at home with the drawn-in infield set up to get the out at home, even a junior-high 2B knows to charge the ball and throw in one motion to the plate, again, the opposite of how Nishi fielded it. You forgot to mention the uncomfortable situation on the SF bunt with he and Mauer both covering 1B, Nishi getting to the bag late due to his semi-circular route instead of the taking the shortest distance between two points.

 

Not a major league effort indeed- and if Seth was correct in his source for the Twins scouts labeling him a a AA-level infielder- even that was a part of our better nature in trying to be generous.

[notoriousgod71]

I missed the part where this ball bounced into the stands. Dislike Delmon all you want but on that play the last thing he should have done was go after the ball, the umps awarded 3 bases on something that was a possible double that has nothing to do with the left fielder.

No, there was a play last year where Delmon predictably shied away from the wall and the ball bounced past him and he stood and pointed while Span had to run over from center field. It was the source of lots of mockery, criticism, and possibly a screen cap on BYTO.

[darin617]

Let me put it this way:

 

- Believe it or not, Nishioka is not the reason the Twins lost 99 last season and are in pace of losing 90+ this season

- This team has bigger fish to fry that dealing with whether or not Nishioka can be the 25th man on the 2013 roster

- And this is a team that carried the likes of Matt Tolbert and Brian Butcher on division winning rosters

 

Bigger fish to fry. Really. And, yes, Nishioka is who he is. He cannot help it. If you want to complain about someone complain about the manager who is playing him or the general manager who got him to the majors.

 

And here is the kicker: Nishioka's play did not cost the Twins a single game. Even if he caught everything thrown his way today they would still have lost...

 

Bigger.Fish.To.Fry

Must be talking about Gardy... Finally somebody gets it.